The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. -- RoySmith (talk) 21:06, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

List of Cristiano Ronaldo hat-tricks[edit]

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Listcruft and WP:NOTSTATS... JMHamo (talk) 15:40, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please also note the following related discussions:

Super Nintendo Chalmers (talk) 08:54, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. JMHamo (talk) 15:42, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As the author of this article, I feel its my responsibility to talk about the need of this one .Cristiano Ronaldo is one of the best football players of this Era,and this is one of his notable records, Many a football sites have listed it as specific section but not any have taken the extra step to classify and organise all his hat-tricks till now into a single page .There are tons of football enthusiasts who will be interested in following such trivias and stats, even after many years, this would be important for football fans. I hope you keep this article for their sake. Issu4ever 10:13, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Issu4ever: It's interesting that he has scored 35 hat tricks in his career, I agree. I strongly disagree with the need for an entire article providing details of each of these hat tricks. This should be nothing more than a sentence on the main Cristiano Ronaldo page. Spiderone 09:02, 19 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Spiderone: I have seen many other similar lists active in wikipedia regarding football stats, so I cant see why this one can also be considered. Ronaldo is definitely one among two most popular football player of this generation. More over, the page is getting reasonably good views and once the google listing gets higher, it will become one of the most interesting stats data for the football fans around the world (just like me -I was inspired to do this because of the non-availability of such a complete list anywhere in the internet world). Issu4ever 08:23, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - non-notable topic. Giant Snowman 17:01, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - pure listcruft Spiderone 17:44, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep A notable achievement by a notable person. This has a clear inclusion criteria and has potentional to become a Featured List (compare with List of Scotland national football team hat-tricks, for example). People are mis-understanding what cruft is. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 18:37, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Can you define exactly how it is notable please? Would an article on Messi and Suarez hat-tricks be notable too? Where do you draw the line? Spiderone 18:40, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I already have in my opening lines. I don't know who those other people are that you speak of, so I can't comment. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 06:50, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But what is wrong with just stating how many hat tricks he has scored in the main article? Why is there a need for specific details of each hat trick scored? Spiderone 09:27, 19 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - In a few years time nobody will care. Zezen (talk) 06:31, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's an excellent and well thought out rationale. Well done. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 06:54, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Hat-tricks in football are not significantly notable an achievement for a list. --Super Nintendo Chalmers (talk) 08:15, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Recent AfD outcomes here and here indicate that even at international level such lists are not necessarily notable on their own. Difficult to see how one that includes domestic goals could be notable. Fenix down (talk) 09:38, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- This isn't a list of all Ronaldo's goals, though, it's a list of all his hat-tricks....... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:54, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's my point though, if international goals are not inherently notable for an individual, what reasons have been put forward that domestic hat tricks are? Fenix down (talk) 11:03, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There's a difference in scope between an article which is just a laundry list of every single goal scored by a player and an article which is a list of hat-tricks, which is a specific achievement -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:21, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:14, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:14, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Spain-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:14, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Portugal-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:14, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:15, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Hat-tricks are usually notable events, especially in professional leagues. Often when one occurs, reference is made to previous records (i.e. last hat-trick by that player / team / against that opposition, etc.). That in itself suggests maintaining an article with the hat-trick records for a prolific player like Ronaldo has encyclopedic value. I wouldn't be necessarily for having a hat-trick article for every single notable player, but for arguably one of the most notable players of our generation, a dedicated article on his hat-tricks seems appropriate. -- R45 ^talk! 16:01, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: there's "Notstats", but Ronaldo's scoring of hat-tricks is well-documented because it is an exception to the rule how frequently he scores them. Example of documentation: [1]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 13:37, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Interesting info but it's just a list and not notable Heyyouoverthere (talk) 11:25, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This is a very noteworthy soccer player. This is a pretty close one for me, but I think this is a keeper. (No Pun Intended) ThisGuyIsGreat (talk) 00:45, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that he is a notable player. How does this make his individual hat tricks notable? Spiderone 10:52, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Sam Sailor ^Talk! 07:55, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as it's list-cruft. The hat-tricks aren't notable by themselves. Merge any relevant info into parent articles. --Jimbo^[online] 16:13, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WP:LISTCRUFT is a very nice essay. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 09:56, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Per Lugnuts and R45.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – I'm not going to get into the debate of whether or not hat-tricks are notable, or whether a domestic hat-trick is more or less notable than an international goal, because soccer is not my area of expertise. I can only really form a judgement based on WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS (which I'm well aware is an essay and not a policy). The most significant thing in my view is that a "list of hat-tricks" table does not appear to be a common feature of a player's personal page; most major players seem to have a "List of International Goals" table within their career statistics section, and the existing "List of international goals scored by..." articles are all valid SPINOUTs for whenever that table gets too long; but "list of hat-tricks" is not a common feature of a player's page, so that makes this article is an entirely new statistical list, not a SPINOUT of common content. Additionally, from what I can tell by looking through the article's categories, there seems to be no other player who currently has a personal "list of hat-tricks" article. If I put those observations together, then I would say that in the context of current content norms for soccer players, this article should be deleted. (If you want to change the norms and add "list of hat-tricks" tables to all player articles and spin out the larger ones, I'd support that alternative as well. But as things stand today I vote for deletion). Aspirex (talk) 00:40, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I would have to agree. I think man of the match is similar. Yes, it is a great achievement to be man of the match but I'm sure that absolutely everyone here would agree that to have an article called List of Cristiano Ronaldo man of the match awards would be ridiculous. The same thing can be said for hat-tricks; yes it's a great achievement but there's absolutely no need to dedicate an article to it and it is just stats for the sake of stats. I see no reason why this list can't be deleted and then just replaced in the article with something like "Ronaldo has scored 35 hat tricks in his career". Spiderone 10:08, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's a prety poor arguement to say "well there's nothing else like this, WP:IDONTLIKEIT, lets delete it!" On the same rationale as just mentioning it in the main article, we could say on the Scotland national team article that "29 players have scored hat-tricks" and delete the Featured Article that is List of Scotland national football team hat-tricks. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 10:32, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There is a big difference between hat-tricks being scored by a team and hat-tricks being scored by an individual. Spiderone 11:36, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It pains me to point it out to you, but the Scottish hat-tricks are all by individuals and not a team... Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 16:47, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Is there? Many of the delete votes have said that hatricks aren't notable, so on that rationale we should be nominating List of Scotland national football team hat-tricks. The delete votes above aren't distinguishing team hatricks from individual hatricks (also, that doesn't entirely make sense as a hatrick is scored by an individual - it is more of an individual accomplishment than a team accomplishment). Frankly I think this issue should be discussed on WP:FOOTBALL to set a specific manual style criteria for hatricks, because there are rational arguments on both sides of the coin. -- R45 ^talk! 13:20, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Fancruft. Can't think of any reason why this is notable enough for an article of its own. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:08, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for Spiderone and Aspirex. Featured content can lose its status and there's no policy stating that it can't be deleted. Rainbow unicorn (talk) 15:30, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete has not demonstrated independent notability. Also for the reasons expressed by editors Spiderone and Aspirex above. --Bejnar (talk) 17:02, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.