The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete the list. There has been some dissent that a category would be too hard to define; this discussion, if someone wants to follow it through, should take place in the appropriate venue, which isn't AfD.

Noting the large amount of support in turning this listed into a category, I will be happy to restore this article temporarily in userspace for any user (in good standing, ie. who will not simply move it back to mainspace) who wishes to go through the list and add an appropriate category. Please contact me on my user talk page, linking to this discussion, or if I'm busy to any other administrator (and point to this comment). This is especially directed at TonyTheTiger (who noted below a request to do this); please ask when you're absolutely ready to categorise it immediately, to avoid a deleted article hanging around in userspace forever. Cheers, Daniel Bryant 10:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of diss songs[edit]

List of diss songs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

I feel it may have been too soon for another AfD (the first one was at the end of February), but the article was recently prod'ed and while I don't care much either way about the topic, I didn't think a prod was the way to go. I'm Neutral on this discussion. JuJube 00:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletions. -- SkierRMH 04:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletions. -- SkierRMH 04:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. The topic is a bit broad; possibly better suited as a category than a list.--TBCΦtalk? 00:38, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Questionable value to me, so I'll be neutral on that. It should definitely be a category instead of a list, however. Autocracy 01:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete I have no idea how this passed a first AfD. There is no established criteria, no sourcing, no commentary, no explanation. It is, franky, a random list of songs. Indiscriminate, unmaintainable, undefined. Resolute 01:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Dizzlete per Resolute. I'm opposed to TBC's solution as there are no objective criteria for what falls into this category. JDoorjam JDiscourse 01:39, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should Category:Diss songs—created last year by User:Rebelduder69—be CFD'd then? Personally I'm not sure, as I don't know much about the subject.--TBCΦtalk? 01:52, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete There's no criteria and any criteria given would be subjective. AniMate 02:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - and replace with a category. - Richard Cavell 02:28, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak delete I actually think there is value in such a list. And given one of the first pieces of info one would want about a diss song is "who was dissed?", I can see why it would be helpful to have it as a list rather than a category. But I don't see a way around the issues of sourcing and objective criteria. Mwelch 02:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Agreed, weak delete. There is so much information on the page detailing numerous songs that I can't simply say "get rid of it." Of course there's no ignoring the fact that it violates policy.--NPswimdude500 01:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete and make into a category. Natalie 02:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete and turn into a category. CattleGirl ^{talk | sign!} 06:27, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of information. M1ss1ontomars2k4 ^{(T | C | @)} 06:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per comments above. This is original research, and cannot be maintained. -- Chairman S. Talk ^Contribs 07:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. The definition/explanation at Diss song does not appear to be WP:Attributable to a reliable external source. As such, there is no reliable inclusion criteria for this list. The content is unscourced and unverified, and at this point in time, I do not see how many (if any) of the entries in the list can be sourced. -- saberwyn 09:01, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I would be willing to support a deletion of the category and/or the Diss song article if either was brought up, for the above reasoning. -- saberwyn 09:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Per above, make into a category. - Denny 09:48, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete and make into a category. Ganfon 17:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as not notable. --Mhking 17:57, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment The number of items on the list attests to the importance of such songs to modern culture. I think the list should exist somewhere. It would be a bear to source and maintain, but there are published sources that refer to these things, and sometimes interviews with artists or the lyrics themselves. I'm not volunteering, but I'd hate to see this completely deleted.--Parsleyjones 18:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as I said last time, this list is too arbitrary in scope and the entries are unsourced.-- danntm ^T _C 20:40, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Don't quite think it should be made into a category, because, as the article, many entries are unsourced and some songs could be diss songs without implying that openly, or vice-versa. Either way, the article definitely doesn't belong here. Alex43223 ^{Talk | Contribs | E-mail | C} 21:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or Listify There is a lot of great information in this article. It should be saved in some format. Please listify if deleted. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 00:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, this user has been canvassing to users who have contributed to this article. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 01:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply my postings were neutral (your voice is needed does not indicate in support or object preference), bipartisan (all registered users who have contributed to the article), and limited (in the hundreds and hundreds of WP:AFDs I have been involved in over the past several months I have never before informed more than 1 or 2 interested parties). It passes as a friendly notice and not canvassing. Please see instructions below regarding closure of this debate. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 15:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Exclusively targeting those who have contributed to the article and therefore may have a stake in it does not strike me as being bipartisan. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 16:56, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment What does he mean by "listify"? Isn't it already a list? JuJube 01:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep. There are several more diss songs out nowadays, and we need a reliable source for the list. I think it is too notable. Besides, I thought Wikipedia is not paper. Tom Danson 00:57, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - per WP:NOT. M.G. In Da Hizzhouse 01:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Where to begin . . . Not encyclopedic, fails WP:V, WP:NOR and possibly WP:NPOV, for starters. No list, no category, no shizzle my nizzle -- just delete. --Butseriouslyfolks 04:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, also agree this fails Verifiability, Reliable sources, and No original research - and much of this unsourced material could be potentially libelous as well. Cricket02 04:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, Better suited as a category. ʍαμ$ʏ5043 07:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete; I agree with TBC and ʍαμ$ʏ5043, this is better suited as a category. fhb3 10:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete While I attempted to add sources I feel the list in not manageable. There exists far too many songs and not enough verifiable sources for them. A category should be made to better contain "the list." A category however will obviously be missing much valuable information. The who portion will be lost. --RapPhenom 13:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nomination. Useless fancruft in my opinion. RobJ1981 13:11, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• If this list is deleted either move it to a subpage of Wikipedia talk:WikiProject hip hop or userfy it to a subpage of my user page. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 15:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Not to diss the authors here but it doesn't even attempt to pass inclusion criteria - unsourced, unverifiable, original research. Arkyan 16:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per above, fails ((WP:V]], WP:OR, and so on and so forth. Wikipedia isn't wastepaper, either. RGTraynor 18:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The list is too long. There are too many diss songs to make them into a list
• Keep, just needs sourcing. There are plenty of articles about hiphop which would mention who is dissing who in which song, so I don't see whats unverifiable about it. The current version is original research (although not any more than any article on TV episodes; it is just listening to the songs and saying who gets dissed) but it just needs cleanup, not deletion. Not a suitable topic for a category, as it needs sourcing which categories don't allow for. Recury 14:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Man, that was tough. I had to, like, type stuff into google to find sources for anything. Recury 14:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• STRONG KEEP I am not really a pro wikipedia editer but I often referr to this list for projects or for personal references. In all honesty, all that would be gained by deleting this page is a sense of "organization". It is really not worth deleting this. BTW my profile is OOORBJOO —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.193.193.12 (talk) 06:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

• Delete or make into a category HeckXX 23:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.