The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. This is a tough call, but after thinking it over all day I just can't see how this list would work. It could focus on people with advanced mathematics training who chose other careers, but frankly so many people receive graduate degrees in things that have nothing to do with how they achieved notability that I don't see what makes mathematics special in that respect. Advanced mathematics study doesn't commit one to a career in the field (not like, say, seminary would).

A list of people with advanced math degrees who do things other than math (like Art Garfunkel) would have to have a title more intricately worded than this, and such wording would probably more easily expose the triviality of the subject (while the current title is, as the keep votes admit, overly broad). I can see where the keep voters are coming from, but ultimately while this is interesting, it would belong better in a wiki focused on math, not the general Wikipedia. Daniel Case 20:02, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of famous people trained in mathematics[edit]

List of famous people trained in mathematics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Essentially a trivial list amounting to listing people by "what they studied in college." If it had any bearing on reason for notability, perhaps it might pass off. But as it stands it doesn't. List of famous people trained in history would be endlessly long, and include tons of people who's link will only come down to trivia such as: Did you know Conan O'Brien studied American History? Bulldog123 04:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete So basically, this is a list of people who studied something they are not known for? Resolute 04:33, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete list cruft. Not much need, if any, for this sort of thing. What's next? "List of famous people who studied English at some point in their loathsome lives"? (Can you imagine how large that would be?) "... who drive Mercedes"? "... seen drinking wine"? Allow lists like this and Wikipedia would become a list of lists. Besides, define "famous" and then patrol it, if you have a millenium to spare. Hu 06:52, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete list would be endless as "famous" would be by wikipedia's notability guideline which would include just about everyone. Not to mention the current list is origional research.--Sefringle^Talk 07:18, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I understand the objection, but I don't think that it's fair to apply to the whole page. Only the third section refers to people who merely studied math "in college", and I agree that that section is a marginal case. However, the first section especially addresses an interesting question that has arisen in many conversations, namely people who are actual research mathematicians but who are famous for unrelated things. There aren't many such people, they do have something interesting in common, and the list is unlikely to grow much longer. I don't know about you folks, but I think that it's fascinating that there could be someone like Frank Ryan, who could be an NFL quarterback and in the same year prove new theorems in mathematics. Greg Kuperberg 09:32, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Members of the list could be verified, but the problem is that the list is too broad, and if it included all possible entrants could stretch into the thousands Recurring dreams 09:35, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Comment But I still don't understand why people have this all-or-nothing attitude, so that instead of narrowing the list only to mathematicians with research careers, people want to delete the whole page. Why is it necessary to go all the way? Greg Kuperberg 11:20, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Greg pretty obviously put keep twice so I changed this to a comment. Bulldog123 15:38, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep The article is not about mathematicians, but about persons who have degrees in mathematics and whose notability is in other fields, such as Frank Ryan, or politicians, etc. Granted, the title is awkward and does not reflect the limitations of the list. As Recurring points out, the title is too broad, since, technically, everyone has been "trained in mathematics" to some extent. As others point out, this might "open the door" for truly crufty lists, and for that reason, this type of article should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. I would strongly vote to delete articles about persons who majored in English, political science, business, history, fine arts, economics, etc., most of whom had to declare a major to get their degree. I think many will agree that there are fewer persons who obtained degrees in mathematics, chemistry, etc.; and still fewer who made their mark in a field unrelated to their education. Surely there's a broader Wikiprinciple that covers this topic... Mandsford 14:59, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - if these people are not specifically known for being trained in mathematics, then listing them together means this is WP:NOT loosely associated topics. Crazysuit 04:34, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - Many of the people in the first section are specifically known as research mathematicians, in the mathematical community, even though they are more widely famous elsewhere. Again, I totally understand the impulse to clean up Wikipedia, but in this case I think that it's heavy-handed to delete the whole thing. The solution that I suggest is to rename the article and restrict it to people who got at least a PhD in mathematics. That is the right level of interest, and I can assure you that it won't end up being a huge list. Greg Kuperberg 05:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep if edited as Greg suggests. DGG 09:22, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep but drop BAs, only keep MAs and above, to get list out of trivia category. Gandalf61 13:09, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• EDITED Ph.D's and professors are now listed first, followed by M.A.'s. Some of the more notable B.A.'s are at the top (James Garfield, Sergei Brin (co-founder of Google), Paul Wolfowitz). Original author can restore deleted names by going to article history. Mandsford 21:51, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good job, Mandsford. Big improvement. (Well, it was a big improvement until your changes were reverted). Gandalf61 08:40, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you *really* think it's an improvement, then restore the changes. Myasuda 02:00, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thank you, I have restored Mandsford's changes. Hope that is okay. Gandalf61 08:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• hhhhgraA Good article, either way. Mandsford 12:11, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Just needs sourcing and pruning. Why delete what you can fix? --Hemlock Martinis 08:30, 8 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. List of famous people who have something irrelevant to their fame in common. Pavel Vozenilek 16:12, 8 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.