The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) —Theo polisme 01:31, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List of films featuring home invasions[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

There is no indication that the topic is significantly covered in sources. The list does not appear to be notable. See also, Afd: List of films featuring diabetes. – Zntrip 05:49, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, I don't see how featuring home invasion is a notable attribute of films. JIP | Talk 06:53, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom & above comment. Seems to be listcruft. --IllaZilla (talk) 16:57, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now, if only to stop this being closed per WP:SNOW. I think it warrants greater discussion and I'd be interested to read others' thoughts on lists like these, which I can well imagine having genuine utility for some of our readers. In addition, the nominator's statement that the sources don't cover this topic does seem to be contradicted by those used to reference this list, the first of which is titled ... "Terror From Inside: 10 Home Invasion Classics". Steve ^T • C 19:49, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - the home invasion theme in film is defined and given significant coverage in scholarly sources. For example:

The Home Invasion Theme in French Cinema Since 1995 Quarterly Review of Film and Video, Volume 28, Issue 3, 2011

or -- Allison Whitney's essay in The Cell Phone Reader discussing the "tradition of home-invasion scenarios" in film (referenced in the article.)

or -- "Race and Real Estate in Panic Room and The People Under The Stairs" Quarterly Review of Film and Video Volume 30, Issue 1, 2013 discusses the "commonalities with many late-twentieth and early twenty-first century home invasion films.")

The theme is also well-referenced in pop culture: Tribeca Film festival, Cinegeek, etc. A google search finds no shortage of the term as it relates to movies in reliable sources. And, finally, each item on the list is cited to a source. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 20:32, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per analysis by CactusWriter. I note that the list is far from complete, and can think of several easily sourcable and notable films off the top of my head that feature home invasions. IE how about those in the Home Alone (franchise)? Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 23:22, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment — In response to CactusWriter's comment, while there may be sufficient sources about the topic, there is a difference between an article entitled "Home invasion in film" and "List of films featuring home invasions". While a significant recurring plot element may be notable enough to warrant an individual article, a simple list of films featuring that plot element is not. I do not see the utility in such a list of films. That said, if someone would like to rename the article so that it has the potential to be expanded beyond a simple list, I will be willing to withdraw the nomination. – Zntrip 23:32, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Zntrip, your rationale for this AFD is "no indication" of significant coverage or notability. Comments addressed the issue -- to demonstrate coverage and notability -- which I believe has been done adequately. You are now shifting to something else entirely. So... as far as a stub article requiring expansion: I agree that the article's single sentence introduction is skimpy -- and it should be expanded to provide an overview of the subject. (As suggested by our MOS guidelines for stand-alone lists). However, an article needing expansion is not a valid criteria for deletion. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 17:55, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article, in its current form cannot expand beyond what it currently is: a list of films. The scope of the article is so narrow and no amount of sources will change that. For a list of films depicting X to meet the criteria for notability, the list itself has to be notable; it is not sufficient to demonstrate that X in film is notable. – Zntrip 19:55, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Zntrip, Wikipedia allows categories, lists, and navigation templates, which can overlap. The list form serves this topic best because it is an approach that provides a clear reference for listing a film that features a home invasion. (In contrast, films directed by a filmmaker are less immediately disputed and can be in a category or a navigation template.) As you said, there "may be sufficient sources", and I would argue that there is enough at least for a stand-alone list, and I quoted the notability guidelines for stand-alone lists below. These guidelines are distinct from guidelines applied to a prose article because it mentions that references that share sets of items (namely, films that feature home invasion) can be the basis for a list on Wikipedia itself. I'm not sure why you think that this topic cannot just be a list of films. If a reader enjoyed a film that featured home invasion, should Wikipedia not be able to share similar films of this type, explicitly backed by reliable sources? Erik (talk | contribs) 10:38, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:01, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:01, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as a notable list. (Note: I am the creator of the article.) Of the set of references in the article, there are four that identify a set of films that feature home invasion. The other references are acceptable because they each identify a film that features home invasion, which is appropriate per the guidelines for stand-alone lists, "A list topic is considered notable if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list. The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been." Like I said at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of films featuring diabetes, I do not think there is enough content out there for a Home invasion in film prose article. The guidelines I quote clearly allow a space for such lists, which benefit readers on Wikipedia. This is a relatively marginal topic, to be sure, but the films have been identified in sets by secondary sources, and the topic is highlighted in additional references. Erik (talk | contribs) 22:57, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pardon me for quoting at length, but A Companion to Alfred Hitchcock (from which I reference six films) says the following: "More recently, however, the 'home invasion movie' has become something of a genre... [The referenced films] are among a string of recent films in which the violation of the home is at issue. Such films reflect an increased fear of the erosion of distinctions between private and public space, already present in Hitchcock's mistaken identity films. These films also reflect a sense that the outside world is more dangerous and unpredictable than ever before. Finally, the home in these films can be seen as a practical substitute for the family: a static, physical symbol of what is, in our current society, fractured and changeable. Of course, replacing an organic idea like the family with a static, material one like the home limits the depth and variety of what can be expressed." This is clear fodder for this topic and could be used to expand the lead section. Erik (talk | contribs) 10:53, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the lengthy comments by CactusWriter and Erik. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 16:22, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep.. but why not merge it to Home invasion? Either way is OK with me. Anyway, CactusWriter showed this is a legitimate genre of study. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 20:56, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I would say that home invasion is a different type of article; it is one about crime. This list article is more film-centric in terms of art and entertainment and related critical studies. In short, I don't think the list of films fits comfortably with the main article's primary context of crime. Erik (talk | contribs) 17:34, 29 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per CactusWriter, well-defined and notable film sub-genre. Cavarrone (talk) 00:19, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.