The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was userfy. I am moving to Aecis' sandbox using the same name. After updating and sourcing it may be moved back to the mainspace without prejudice. The taget page is User:Aecis/List of nationality transfers in football (soccer) -JodyB _talk 15:59, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of nationality transfers in football (soccer)[edit]

List of nationality transfers in football (soccer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Contested PROD. To me it's not worth to stay here, as it is an indiscrimante collection of unsourced and unverified information; later, talking of "nationality transfer" is kind of a straining, as many of the players listed in this article actually represented both their native and their adoptive land. And, finally, I think this can be more easily (and correctly) managed by a category rather than such a list. Angelo 11:52, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. JohnCD 12:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions. ChrisTheDude 13:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep I was going to say delete, but whilst it is poorly sourced, I think it is an intersting list (though with the addition of players who have represented Ireland, it might go way over the 30kb limit!) and not exactly indiscriminate. Perhaps it could be better done by splitting the list between (a) players who represented one country at youth level and another at senior level (e.g. Ryan Giggs) and (b) players who were born in one country but represent another, but on the whole I think it is worthwhile. пﮟოьεԻ 57 13:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • A pedant writes: Ryan Giggs did not represent a country other than Wales at youth level. He played for England Schools, but any boy who attends a school in England is eligible for that team, it has nothing to do with nationality....... ChrisTheDude 13:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ahhh. Caught in my own web. How about Frédéric Kanouté then :) пﮟოьεԻ 57 13:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'll give you that one :-) ChrisTheDude 14:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - see List of football players with dual nationality, which I am editing and referencing on one of my subpages. GiantSnowman 15:40, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, as the prod's contester. If there are verifiability issues with this article (and the nom may have a point in that), they need to be fixed through sourcing, not through outright deletion. If the criteria for inclusion in this list are incorrect or too vague, they need to be finetuned through discussion on the article's talk page. If there are people included in this list who shouldn't be there, they should obviously be removed. And as far as listcruft is concerned ("an indiscrimante collection of ... information" in the nom), I disagree. Nationality transfer is a topic in football. Many important footballing countries try to expand the number of players they can field by immigration. See Olisadebe in Poland, Asamoah in Germany, Da Silva in Brazil, Collautti in Israel, Deco in Portugal, Pernia in Spain, or the attempts to have Solomon Kalou, Jonathan De Guzman and Leonardo acquire Dutch citizenship, to make them qualify for the Dutch national team. See also the parent list List of nationality transfers in sport and the sister lists List of nationality transfers in athletics and List of nationality transfers in chess. Aecis^Brievenbus 17:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I'm inclined towards delete but am ready to be persuaded to keep it. Primarily I don't have a clue what this means. It tells me what this doesn't include but not what could be included. I don't know why the likes of Andy O'Brien couldn't be on this list. I'm also worried this could be WP:OR but do think in general this list could be relevant to some extent. Convince me and I'll vote keep. Peanut4 22:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • This list is for football players who have acquired the citizenship of another country in order to represent the national football team of that country. In doing so, they have lost the right to represent their native country, under FIFA rules. Someone like Deco, for instance, who was born and raised in Brazil. In 1997, at the age of 20, he moved to Portugal, to play for a Portuguese football club. After a number of years in Portugal, he acquired Portuguese citizenship, and he now plays for the Portugal national football team. Another example: since the end of communism, a number of Eastern European football clubs have signed Brazilian football players. Several of them have acquired the citizenship of the country where they were playing and now play for the national team of the country (e.g. Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Hungary, Macedonia and Poland). What this list doesn't include is players who were born with dual citizenship, because of parentage. They didn't make a nationality transfer, because they already had the nationality of the country they now represent. I assume that this was the reason why Andy O'Brien could not be included. He could, however, be included in the List of football players with dual nationality. Is the scope of the list a bit clearer now? If not, please let me know. Aecis^Brievenbus 22:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • A little clearer. Though I reckon the article itself should have a full explanation. It's far too confusing otherwise. Peanut4 22:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • If the list is kept, then it needs a lot of work on it. Either that, or the full explanation. See my note on the talk page regarding Shaun Maloney, Mauro Camoranesi, Emmanuel Olisadebe for starters. Peanut4 01:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as a list which appears - despite my initial fear that it wouldn't be - to be manageably maintained. I'd suggest a different title, although I'm not quite sure what that should be, and a double-check of the one entry in the UEFA list who seems not to have any original nationality (as in: under what circumstances can someone with no nationality have changed it?). BigHaz - Schreit mich an 05:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've fixed Balep N'Dumbouk (source). Aec·is·away ^talk 12:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, per nom. At the moment this is a list of unsourced, unverified and confused data, most of which I'm pretty sure doesn't conform to the criteria listed at the top. With so many criteria, most if not all players need some sort of reference. This list may have a place in wikipedia but not in its current form. -- Peanut4 (talk) 20:38, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• move to sandbox and fix, then keep. I was one of the starters of this dynamic list, and worked considerably on it. The purpose was to list footballers who changed country in order to play for a national team for which he had not always been eligible. I believe it is a relevant topic which should be covered. However, it has gone way out of hand, so I personally gave up stopped watchlisting it a while ago. The main issues are: 1. the name may not be technically correct. 2. many entries deviate from the scope. 3. lack of sources. Nonetheless, I believe that these problems are solveable. The list is maintainable. However, it probably doesn't deserve to be in the main namespace before the issues have been sorted out, given that the fixup won't happen in the immediate future (within a few days). Punkmorten (talk) 22:58, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I think that's an appropriate, sensible and responsible reply. If fully sourced and given full criteria of what to include and what not to include (not just what not to) I would vote keep. Peanut4 (talk) 23:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I too endorse Punkmorten's suggestion/proposal to userfy the list. I would also suggest userfying List of nationality transfers in sport, List of nationality transfers in athletics and List of nationality transfers in chess, because the issues raised during this AFD also apply to those lists. Aecis·(away) ^talk 13:44, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse Punkmorten's suggestion. This is an encyclopedic subject for a list, and should ultimately be kept; it just needs some cleanup and a great deal of sourcing, which can be done in userspace. Terraxos (talk) 03:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.