The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Mailer Diablo 10:52, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List of video games considered the worst ever[edit]

This article has been acknowledged for a long time to be nothing but POV. Additionally, much of it appears to be original research. Despite this acknowledgment, the article remains the same: uncited, unencyclopedic, and unprofessional. Chris Griswold 12:21, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• OK guys, I will dare and remove the AfD tag as the result seems to be "Keep" with little or no doubt (and no, no ballot stuffing here). Plus the AfD tags insist on calling this the "second" AfD nomination, while it's the third one. Oh well... EpiVictor 15:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • My bad, forgot that only admins can do that :-) EpiVictor 23:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep First of all, the nominator did not disclose that this article has been nominated for deletion twice; there was no consensus first time and keep (by a wide margin- 13 to 5) the second time. Much like the GNAA, there's no reason to keep re-nominating an article. Second of all, while I feel that this list is POV, it's at least POV that pretty much everyone can agree with- not many people are going to tell you that Big Rigs was a particularly great experience. The fact that there's already a note to use the talk page before adding to the article certainly helps its cause. As a huge gamer, I greatly despise gamecruft on WP, but in my opinion, this isn't it. -- Kicking222 12:56, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • And, by the way, if you look at the talk page, the note in the main article is true- each game somebody wants to put on the list is first proposed to the community (via the talk page), or else it's simply removed from the page. Thus, while the article is POV, at least there's a consensus as far as what belongs on the list and what does not. -- Kicking222 13:02, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep this was listed for deletion several times unsuccessfully. I don't see how this time it would be different.  Grue  13:03, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep While at first it may sound POV all entries are seemingly backed up by references to calims that said entries are in fact terrible. it is after all list of games considered not list of games that are the worst ever Ydam 13:14, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per above --Guinnog 14:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep but rewrite beginning While the list itself is a good collection with references, the article before the list itself is indeed very POV, especially the "2D as out-of-fashion" section which is disputable from many angles including the many popular 2D games released for newer handheld consoles including not only the likes of the Gameboy Advance but also of mobile phones. The part before the list definitely needs an NPOV-rewrite. AdamDobay 14:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Rename. Listcruft. Horrible name for an article: "considered" (weasel words), "worst ever" (hyperbole). If it is kept it needs to be renamed. 70.108.111.17 14:17, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment:"Worst ever" isn't really hyperbole. Someone's gotta be the worst... -LtNOWIS 00:40, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per precedent. I invite 70.108.111.17 to suggest alternate wording that won't render the title POV. 23skidoo 14:44, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  "List of video games that have been called among the worst" or "that have been panned by most critics". Make sure every game included is sourced to a notable reference (not just some kid's blog) justifying inclusion. See list of groups referred to as cults for example of how this can be done. 70.108.111.17 15:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I voted this way last time too - the title is POV. --Bachrach44 16:51, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete If individual games within the list is notable enough, give those games coverage in their own individual articles. Otherwise, this page amounts to consensus reviews, which by definition is point of view. — WCityMike ^(T | C)  ⇓ plz reply HERE  (why?) ⇓  17:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are references to prominent gaming websites for every entry.  Grue  17:46, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Consensus reviews are by definition point of view. A list of the worst movies ever would be deletable under the same criteria. — WCityMike ^(T | C)  ⇓ plz reply HERE  (why?) ⇓  17:59, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, as not only it has survived two AfD nominations before, but the current revision of the list is much more mature and well observed/mantained than older versions. Plus, there are similarly named articles (one example for all: Films considered the worst ever) which are suspiciously not subject to as much AfD nominations and criticism, neither for their name, nor for their content. And about the "2D out of fashion theory": the only systems where they're considered "hip" are lowly handhelds and Java games (for technical reasons, mostly, but even on those platforms, developers and manufacturers are striving for "3D at all costs" strategy too, so there's definitively a bias or policy in the industry. EpiVictor 17:47, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and quit listing it for deletion. It's ridiculous to list articles over and over when there's a consensus to keep them. 81.170.50.197 18:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep — Per above. — RJH (talk) 19:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as per WP:NOR, WP:V and WP:NPOV. It's sad that ballot-stuffing managed to keep this article alive so long. Peyna 19:13, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • By my current count, 11 people are going with keep, 3 with delete, and 1 with rename. While the first two AfDs might be different, I'm not sure how you can attribute this discussion to ballot stuffing. -- Kicking222 22:22, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also, did anyone else notice that my (kicking222) comment came at 22:22? That's awesome. -- Kicking222 22:23, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • My comment was in reference to the prior dsicussions. Peyna 23:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep — Per reasons already exposited above. --Ghetteaux 20:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep — Ditto (how else can I say it, especially in one word?) Mattderojas 21:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, this actually have have some use as suggested eariler, as a repository of games that are considered bad; most of them give reasons for why, allowing the reader to do further research as many have their own page dedicated to them. And I would think that 12-3-1 (The 1 being a Rename) would be considered to be a legitimate vote, since ballot-stuffing would imply that someone is logging in under different accounts to do this. Coyote42 22:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep but rewrite beginning. Films considered the worst ever is an exemplary list in my opinion... This has attracted more negative attention I think because the intro is way too long and messy. Clean it up, but I know this can be made into a well-sourced and unambiguous list. Grandmasterka 05:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. But it needs revision. There's an article for greatest, there should be a reciprical. --Mystalic 22:04, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep but rewrite article title. Having a weasel word right in the title undermines this article from the very beginning. Aside from that, I vote this article should be kept because making it finally work would provide an excellent testament to the power of the Wiki community to tackle tough articles. NO ARTICLE LEFT BEHIND! --Metron4 17:11, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. It needs work, but is a worthy subject to be included. If Films considered the worst ever and other subjects can have their own 'worst' lists, I do not see why video games cannot have their own 'worst' list either.--Cini 18:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Please keep. It's my favorite Wikipedia article.
• Keep. The worst film list is POV too. --Passerby Cat ^{talk cat} 23:11, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. As long as an authoritative source (magazine, etc.) can be found, I'd say that this list is fine, if worthy of keeping the ((disputed)) tag. Isopropyl 18:24, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Big time delete Pages like this are too subjective to be included on a encyclopedia (because Wikipedia is not truly an encylopedia). Nevertheless, this page displays opinions rather then facts which is totally the opposite of Wikipedia's mission. Farine -- 8 June 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Keep - I see someone from here is trying to get List of movies considered the worst ever deleted too. The fact is that these pages' entries are democratically chosen, are not added arbitrarily and must meed guidelines to be added. --Philo 04:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.