The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Carlossuarez46 17:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Bertram[edit]

as he does not meet WP:BIO, i.e. he has not played in a fully professional league. He's not even in the first team squad according to the NUFC official site. Nufc2006 22:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Actually, he is a core player of the Newcastle United professional football team. And contrary to a comment on the article's talk page, he is listed on the site and has played in games (frequently, too) - see e.g. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30]. Hence he does meet WP:BIO, which says that "[c]ompetitors who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming or tennis" are "generally notable." — xDanielx ^T/_C 08:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The question is, has he played a game for the first team? Nick mallory 11:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment No way is he a core player, the article only has a couple of sentances to back this, and no he hasnt played for the proper team (no squad number), only the academy/reserves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nufc2006 (talk • contribs) 14:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No automatic notability till he's crossed the whitewash and appeared for the 1st XI. --Dweller 14:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:BIO: Has not played in a fully-professional league. Number 5 7 15:14, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as per all the delete votes above. I've not checked every single one of the references to www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk above, but the ones I did check refer to reserve games, youth team games, and pre-season friendlies only. Fails WP:BIO. - fchd 16:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and re add when part of first team squad for competitive game or assigned a first team squad number. Kingjamie 18:09, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:BIO. Whilst the number of sources XDanielx has found, none of them are independent, nor do any of them make any real claim for notability outside of the game (which would be the only possible saving grace). Deletion without prejudice of recreation when/if he plays at a professional standard. AllynJ (talk | contribs) 20:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - has NOT played in a fully professional league and is certainly NOT a core player (or even a fringe player) for the NUFC first team (as anyone with a modicum of knowledge of Premier League football would know). His non-notability is in fact proved by xDanielx's first link, which is a list of NUFC first team squad numbers, on which this player does NOT appear! All the linked articles refer to him playing in youth/reserve/friendly (i.e. NOT fully professional) matches ChrisTheDude 21:02, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Has not played in a fully professional league, i.e. the Premier League, Championship, League One or League Two, as demonstrated by xDanielx's links. Multiple references are shown above but these are to the club website which cannot be considered an independent source for the purpose of demonstrating notability. --Malcolmxl5 21:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Multiple references are shown above but these are to the club website which cannot be considered an independent source for the purpose of demonstrating notability." In practice that is untrue. If there was a match report on Newcastle's website that said Bertram had played in a competitive first-team match, that would be enough to establish notability. ugen64 01:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:BIO, not a core player, not a professional league match. --Angelo 23:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 12:31, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. The subject is not-yet-notable, and fails WP:BIO at this time. RFerreira 20:38, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.