The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I fully expect to be taken to DRV for this, but here goes. The problem is WP:NTEMP - "it takes more than just a short burst of news reports about a single event or topic to constitute sufficient evidence of notability". Since this individual clearly doesn't pass WP:ATHLETE, what are we to do if he never passes it? Is such an individual still notable because they received some coverage in their formative years? The answer, I'm afraid, has to be no. When (as seems likely) they do hit ATH, then of course the article should be recreated. Black Kite 00:34, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Matt Kassel[edit]

Matt Kassel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Matt Kassel is not notable. He is not a professional footballer and has yet to attain enough of a reputation or importance to be published on wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by Interzil (talk • contribs) 2009/11/21 07:51:40

• This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 13:53, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, doesn't meet football notability guidelines at this point in his career. NawlinWiki (talk) 14:31, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:02, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:03, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Doesn't yet pass WP:ATHLETE. Good luck, Matt. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 00:23, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete and add if he plays professionally or notability can be established. Blue Square Thing (talk) 22:24, 25 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. GiantSnowman 14:38, 26 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG; a college career isn't enough, recreate if and when this guy ever plays as a professional. GiantSnowman 14:39, 26 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Meets WP:N with an unusual amount of national media coverage over an extended period of time, for a college player: [1], [2], [3] Nfitz (talk) 19:54, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - actually, based on previous college soccer players' AfDs, that is a usual amount, or even less than usual; anyways, it's certainly not enough to meet WP:GNG, as they're just run of the mill sports news, which fail WP:NTEMP. GiantSnowman 01:14, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• An article from the Washington Post is hardly "run of the mill sports news". Wikipedia is not paper so individuals that receive significant coverage in reliable sources pass the inclusion policy on Wikipedia. Cunard (talk) 22:44, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

---

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Tim Song (talk) 00:54, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Relisting comment: relisted to obtain more comments on the sources Nfitz provided. Tim Song (talk) 00:55, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Doesn't pass WP:THLETE yet, sources aren't enough to prove otherwise. Coffee // have a cup // ark // 13:32, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep He exists; nothing else matters. Kurt Weber (Go Colts!) 20:19, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: Am I the only one who initially thought that this was an article for a misspelling of Matt Cassel? Kurt Weber (Go Colts!) 20:20, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Cool, I exist, I eagerly await the creation of an article on my humdrum life to date :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:43, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Does that mean I can create an article on a bit of fluff I found on my carpet this morning? I mean, that exists...or, at least it will until I get Henry out. GiantSnowman 12:59, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Go right ahead! Kurt Weber (Go Colts!) 15:27, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Ah cool, keep an eye out for GiantSnowman's bit of fluff to turn blue... ;) GiantSnowman 21:23, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. In the past, I have voted to keep some NCAA players even though they fail WP:ATHLETE due to them winning some kind of nationally-recognised award which generate some degree of media attention - unfortunately I can't do the same here. As far as the sources provided on the article go, one's a team bio (which probably counts as a primary source and therefore can't be used to confer notability), one appears to be broken (probably a mistyped link) and one seems to experiencing server problems of the 500 Error variety. The MLS page is certainly an excellent in-depth article, but I don't think that on its own is enough to establish this player as notable yet. Of the other available news hits, most of them seem to hint about his future stardom, but there's nothing which establishes his present-day notability. This article can recreated if and when he makes his pro debut. Bettia (talk) 16:22, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Are you commenting on the sources provided by Nfitz (talk · contribs)? All three of the sources linked by Nfitz provide significant coverage about the subject. Cunard (talk) 22:44, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The sources provided by Nfitz establish that Matt Kassel passes WP:GNG / WP:BIO. Kessel fails WP:ATHLETE but this does not matter when he passes WP:GNG. As Davewild (talk · contribs) wrote at another AfD, "The general notability guideline supersedes any subject specific guidelines." Wikipedia:Notability (people) (which encompasses WP:ATHLETE) says that "A person is presumed notable if he or she has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject." Kassel has clearly received this coverage.

  See this article from ESPN (titled Youth product Kassel looks to have bright prospects; this article is over 10 paragraphs long), this article from the Washington Post (titled Recruit Kassel Joins the Terps, At Least for Now; this article is also over 10 paragraphs long), and this article from the New York Post (titled RBNY's Matt Kassel staying at Maryland; this article is six paragraphs long). Notability is fully established due to the extent of coverage. Cunard (talk) 22:44, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per Cunard's sources. WP:ATHLETE is NOT an exclusive guideline. Having long pieces in several major national media outlets indicates that he is clearly notable. matt91486 (talk) 23:32, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per the sources provided by Cunard. ArcAngel (talk) 07:32, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.