The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus, usual disagreement between WP:NCRIC and WP:GNG, which unfortunately does not seem to be possible to resolve in this nomination.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:40, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mohammad Ilyas (cricketer, born 1996) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Dropped because of poor performances. He hasn't done anything notable in his short career. No coverage found. Fails WP:GNG. Störm (talk) 01:39, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 01:45, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Cricket-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 01:45, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 01:45, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep passes WP:NCRIC having played in five first-class and a List A match. "Dropped because of poor performances" is an erroneous comment. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 08:06, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep Has played 5 FC matches and 1 List-A match passing him for WP:NCRIC. Could possibly be redirected to List of Lahore Blues cricketers or similar as coverage is low. Could the nominator please link us to where he's found the player was 'dropped because of poor performances' please. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:20, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Passes WP:NCRIC as he have played in five first-class and a List A match which is enough to qualify. Grailcombs (talk) 13:09, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. No significant coverage, only wide ranging databases built on scorecard data, so fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. The trivial pass of NCRIC, by virtue of playing part of a one season, does not trump the GNG failure. His opportunities for further appearances have likely been affected by the restructuring of Pakistan domestic cricket (reducing the number of teams from 16 to 6), but there is nothing to suggest he will return to FC/LA cricket based on his performances to date, which also give little confidence any significant coverage exists anywhere. Redirection is an accepted ATD, but no suitable target exists. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 15:08, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or merge into a list of Lahore Blues players if there is such an article. All the sources available are database entries, and it is not enough to dredge up a bunch of match scorecards and dress them up as a biography. There is no actual biographical information. If all the sources amount to a few cells in a table, then that is how the information should be presented. The GNG (specifically WP:SPORTCRIT) explicitly disallows articles based purely on numerical database scrapes, and takes precedence over NCRIC, so NCRIC is overruled and invalidated to the extent that it conflicts with GNG. Reyk _YO! 14:09, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• KeepWeak keep: I don't really care for WP:NCRIC but it is what is and I've added a source to the article ... which sort of questions why no one else has found/discussed it.Djm-leighpark (talk) 23:24, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  @Djm-leighpark: Sorry, but you found a different Ilyas, a slightly younger one from Peshawar, for which there are lots of sources: Mohammad Ilyas (cricketer, born 1999). _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 08:50, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Just goes to show how easy it is to mix up different similarly-named people when the sourcing is so sparse. It's a problem that's come up several times before, but of course the cricket enthusiasts don't want to know about it. Reyk _YO! 09:58, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Thankyou for pointing that out. I have moved to weak keep mainly to be consistent with WP:NCRIC and similar for sports, not that I'm much keep about the criteria. More usefully I've added a hatnote to the article. I'd possibly support by by someone else but I'm not prepared to do it myself; if this gets deleted it would be helpful if the Mohammad Ilyas (cricketer, born 1999) mentioned the namesake to avoid any inaccuracies creeping in in future. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark (talk) 11:10, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep he passes WP:NCRIC by virtue of having played both first class and one day matches. Furthermore, there is no evidence presented that he was dropped for performance reasons; rather, Lahore Blues were relegated from the top division of the Quaid-e-Azam trophy, and therefore have fallen outside the purview of first class cricket. Moreover, he is young enough to play more first class matches- he hasn't yet turned 25, so any implication that his career is over is unsupportable. I think the original AfD reasoning is pretty misleading. DevaCat1 (talk) 22:55, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Firstly no teams were relegated; Pakistan cricket was restructured with six new first-class teams. And secondly, this does actually significantly reduce his future opportunities. Not that this is relevant in any way – he's either notable by virtue of having enough significant coverage to warrant a standalone article now, or he isn't. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 23:19, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Wjemather.4meter4 (talk) 03:04, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, for the reasons of those who want this article kept. Davidgoodheart (talk) 22:55, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Lacks significant coverage. Fails WP:SPORTCRIT, which says sports database entries are not satisfactory to establish notability. Reywas92^Talk 05:14, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete fails WP:GNG, cannot find any coverage of him. WP:SPORTCRIT is also relevant here. SportingFlyer T·C 12:42, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Satisfies WP:NCRIC. StickyWicket (talk) 19:05, 30 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete The purpose of NCRIC as detailed at Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Applicable policies and guidelines is to "provide bright-line guidance to enable editors to determine quickly if a subject is likely to meet the General Notability Guideline". Although NCRIC indicates this subject is likely to meet GNG, a detailed search for sources reveals that they actually do not meet GNG. We are left with a biography consisting of a few sentences supported only by statistics, and both WP:SPORTCRIT and WP:WHYN make it clear that this unacceptable.----Pontificalibus 11:34, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, For playing in five first-class, passes WP:NCRIC , Alex-h (talk) 09:40, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, per Wjemather and Reyk. NSPORT and NCRIC are pretty explicit that articles meeting an SSG are only presumed to meet the GNG. At AfDs once BEFORE is performed by the nom the burden is passed to keep !voters to demonstrate an article does meet GNG -- and no one here has actually done so. JoelleJay (talk) 03:43, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per WP:NCRIC. Riteboke (talk) 16:18, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Alex-h and Riteboke, if GNG is failed it doesn't matter that NCRIC is met. JoelleJay (talk) 20:17, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Fails GNG.Jackattack1597 (talk) 10:38, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.