The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Fritzpoll (talk) 07:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Moshe Abutbul[edit]

Moshe Abutbul (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Contested prod. Although the player is proffesional he has not played on a fully professional level per Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues and he fails WP:Athlete. Article does not show that it passes WP:GNG, but if it can be shown that he does it should be kept. Rettetast (talk) 01:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related page moves. Rettetast (talk) 01:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. -- TexasAndroid (talk) 01:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom; fails WP:ATHLETE as he has never played in a fully-pro league. No other claim to fame, so also fails WP:N. GiantSnowman 10:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep meets WP:ATHLETE and has played in a fully professional league despite that some people are ignoring the sources provided in fully professional leagues and have decided to remove it based on their personal feelings. -NYC2TLV (talk) 12:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Although the IFA designates Liga Leumit as a fully professional league, it also does the same for Liga Artzit, the third tier. In reality, some clubs in Leumit have attendances that barely make it into three figures (I have been at Maccabi Be'er Sheva games in Leumit where the crowd was 50 at best). Clearly these clubs cannot generate enough income to be fully professional, so I assume the "fully professional" thing actually refers to them being semi professional (players who receive some payment, but not all their income), as opposed to amateurs who are not paid at all (I think a similar issue was raised with the Turkish third division in the past). пﮟოьεԻ 57 19:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment doesn't пﮟოьεԻ's statement involve assumptions? You can not base a deletion or removal of content based on your own assumptions. -NYC2TLV (talk) 13:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's based on experience of watching the leagues in question. I've seen more fans at matches at the 10th level of English football. пﮟოьεԻ 57 14:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Wait a minute, so your experience going to Liga Leumit matches trumps mine as a supporter of Hapoel Ashkelon F.C. growing up? Every player in that league has a professional contract aside from youth players in the army. Number 57, you are acting as though you are the sole authority on Israeli football. -NYC2TLV (talk) 20:03, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment First of all, since I don't know Hebrew, like probably a large majority of users here, can you please give us translations of reliable sources declaring the Israeli 3rd tier is fully professional (not semi-professional). If you can find even more sources, possibly in English, it would be appreciated. In addition, if the subject fails WP:BIO or WP:N I think he is not notable anyway. Thanks. --Angelo (talk) 22:12, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Angelo- We are not debating the third tier of Israeli football, we are debating the second tier. The provided sources by the Israel Football Association define the top three tiers as professional. -NYC2TLV (talk) 23:42, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Again, I don't understand Hebrew, like at least 95% of editors around. I have tried to translate that source using Google Translate, but I see no mention of what you say. Please provide an alternative source in English or alternatively translate the source quotes you are referring to, per WP:NONENG. --Angelo (talk) 07:17, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Liga Leumit players are fully professional plus this guy played in the top tier for FC Ashdod in 2003-2004. Just need to find the statistics.SpeechFreedom (talk) 13:39, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Player is proffesional and he has played on a fully professional level per Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues and he meets WP:Athlete. Article does shows that it passes WP:GNG and as such this discussion should be closed. -NYC2TLV (talk) 00:04, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. According to the FIFA document now used as a source in the list, Liga Leumit does appear to be fully professional. If this is true, he meets WP:ATHLETE. Bettia ^{it's a puppet!} 09:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Bettia. matt91486 (talk) 22:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.