The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Improvements made during the article appear to establish notability. Consensus following those improvements seems to agree. Discussions of whether big in Malta = Big is just going to turn into WP:BIG/WP:NUMBER TravellingCari 03:31, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Zammit (footballer)[edit]

Footballer who has never played or managed in a fully professional league, thus failing WP:ATHLETE. Deprodded on the basis that his club played in the first qualifying round of the Champions League. However many clubs from very small countries play (e.g. Andorra) in the qualifying round, so this is hardly conferring notability. пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 13:08, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 13:08, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete qualifying rounds of UEFA club tournaments are not considered notable, as many clubs who have won their respective leagues that are not fully-pro, are entered. Fails notability at WP:ATHLETE. --Jimbo^[online] 14:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. -- Undead Warrior (talk) 16:03, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Maltese coach of the year seems notable enough to me, plenty of mentions in reliable sources, both within Malta and from UEFA, none of which may be enough in their own right to be sufficient, but the amount of coverage, together with the award, looks OK from my point of view. - fchd (talk) 16:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per fchd - and clearly the number one coach in Malta. I'm really surprised anyone would suggest that he isn't notable - the press coverage alone is significant to meet WP:BIO. Nfitz (talk) 18:02, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Seven google news hits is significant? [1] пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:41, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - What's so clear about it? Sounds like blatant POV to me. Again, those Google hits aren't notable. They are match reports which contain his name, not specifically about him - as mentioned in previous AfDs, thousands on nn footballers can be found on Google news e.g. Danny Kedwell. --Jimbo^[online] 18:44, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - How is 'In 2008 he won the Maltese Coach of the Season award' and his team finishing first POV?. Seems to have plenty of coverate in mainstream national Maltese newspapers - not just soccer websites. Nfitz (talk) 01:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      - Stating he's the number one coach in Malta is, despite his record. Sir Alex Ferguson could be described as the best coach in the English league due to his record of trophies. However, some would claim Brian Clough is as he achieved more with a smaller team. It's subjective, which is POV. --Jimbo^[online] 12:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep- I have improved this article by expanding it and including sources. In my opinion this article is now well enough sourced to meet WP:BIO with or without WP:ATHLETE. Reyk _YO! 22:14, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - As stated above Paul Zammit is Maltese coach of the year, I can't believe this is even up for deletion, but then some things on here never suprise me, I made the page in the light of the coverage that Zammit has received this season, with his team Valletta winning the Maltese title, fair play to all you guys who have supported the article. Stew jones (talk) 13:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Can someone explain why being coach of the year and winning the title in a country of 400,000 people make someone notable? Malta is around half the size of Suffolk - does this make the coach who wins the Suffolk & Ipswich league notable? пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 17:32, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually Number 57 half of Suffolk support a Premier League team.--CorkCityFCRebelArmy (talk) 16:54, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The city of Vaduz has about 6,000 people - does that make FC Vaduz non-notable? (they play in the fully professional Swiss Super League) ugen64 (talk) 02:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 20:13, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It has to do somewhat with systemic bias concerns, generally speaking, more than pure population correlations. matt91486 (talk) 21:46, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per WP:N, no significant third-party reliable sources covering the subject in detail. Name mentions ain't enough to establish notability; it's not a bias against minor countries, even if Malta's footballing level is definitely low and probably comparable to the English Conference or the Italian Serie D (all being non-professional leagues, by the way). --Angelo (talk) 09:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment- the sources I provided cover Mr. Zammit in more detail than mere "name mention"s. Hell, two of them are about him exclusively and the other two go into more detail than just passing mentions. Reyk _YO! 12:31, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - yet another example of the confusion, possible (but inadvertant) bias against small nations, and lack of clarity in the guidelines concerning footballers notability. In this case the combination of the sources provided, the success of the subject and the fact he is at the peak of the game in his country says to me that he is notable enough. Basement12 (T.C) 20:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.