The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was postpose outcome. No consensus simply to give Joe some time to work on it. If its not sourced in a month nudge me and I'll nuke it. Is that OK? Spartaz ^Humbug! 17:48, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No edits since this closed and no sources added. This is now Delete Spartaz ^Humbug! 21:55, 1 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

SonMay[edit]

SonMay (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Non-notable bootleg CD distributer. Article sourced entirely from a no-longer-there page on an anime-seller's website (not WP:RS by a long shot). Fails WP:CORP and WP:V. —Hello, Control ^{Hello, Tony} 16:32, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Meets neither WP:CORP nor Wikipedia:Notability (criminal acts). Gwen Gale (talk) 16:36, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. —Hello, Control ^{Hello, Tony} 16:41, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. —Hello, Control ^{Hello, Tony} 16:41, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletions. —Hello, Control ^{Hello, Tony} 16:49, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: Per nominator and Gwen Gale. -- Goodraise (talk) 17:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: As cliche as Per Nom is, the nom did hit this one right on the head... - Adolphus79 (talk) 18:01, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Keep I'd argue Sonmay are far more notable then is being assumed here, but certainly the lack of reliable sourcing doesn't warrant saving it (for the record that site was not a seller iirc). I'm in two minds really, the article could probably be saved, but reliable sources are usually wary of discussing pirated media so it's not going to be a 5minute job. If someone can find a reliable source, the article could easily be improvedDandy Sephy (talk) 18:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was going by the root of the site: anime.org.uk/, which is a commercial site. If the sub-domain wasn't then that's my mistake. —Hello, Control ^{Hello, Tony} 18:55, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • If this is the case, then maybe this article is a candidate for being built in userspace? - Adolphus79 (talk) 18:58, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • A Google News archive search turned up only one article, and that was just a passing mention in a brief weekly anime column. Also dug up this, which seems to contradict the column—that SonMay is not a bootleg company, just that their license is good for Taiwan-only sales). In any case, I still don't see notability.—Hello, Control ^{Hello, Tony} 20:41, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep, though axe the list of releases as completely unencyclopedic and blatant advertising. SonMay is one of the most notorious anime soundtrack bootleggers out there, and they have been written about in many ENglish-language anime and manga magazines since the early 1990s (I would have to hunt through a bunch to find them as it's been a long time since then and I don't remember exactly where they are mentioned). They are a bootlegger in that Taiwan doesn't (though this may have changed recently) recognize the Berne Convention, and SonMay doesn't license anything. In fact, their earliest bootlegs looked horrible and were not reliable. You could compare the packaging side by side with the original and easily see the difference. They have improved their skills since then. They are definitely notable. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 07:02, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, whack the release list, add a notability tag, and give Nihonjoe (and anyone else who helps him) a month or so to dig out those hard-copy references. If found, remove the notability tag; if not, we can revisit the issue. If references are, indeed, largely pre-web, then five days won't be enough time to dig them up, which means it's time to assume good faith about his claims. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:45, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: I'm with Quasi here. Nihonjoe is a well-established member of Wikipedia with no personal interest in the article AFAIK and therefore no reason to lie about the sources. I'm not voting because I have no comment to make on the article, just wanted to lend my support to Joe. —Dinoguy1000 21:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Putting this under WP:POSTPONE would also work. —Quasirandom (talk) 18:08, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• WP:POSTPONE to give Joe time to search for reliable sources. Given the notoriety that SonMay has among anime conventions and Sailor Moon fans, it is more then reasonable to assume that there is coverage by reliable sources within the anime community. If after a month and there are no reliable sources, the article can be brought to AFD again. --Farix (Talk) 21:18, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Userfy or Merge into bootleg recording: Out of the first hundred Google hits, I only found one reliable source—an article by ANIMEfringe, a magazine (ISSN:1705-3692) that analyzes the "differences" between their products and the original CDs.[1] One problem is that the subject seems only notable for being a bootlegger, and an article about it might be lacking in reliable sources to make it comprehensive (set up, history, location, operations, etc). One of the requirements in the WP:GNG is sufficient sources for a comprehensive article. Searches based on permutations of its Chinese name "笙美貿易有限公司" also reveal no articles about the company by reliable sources. Nihonjoe, however, claims that he has a bunch of sources (among his vast collection or available to him, I presume) for this company. Userfying would allow him to work on it until a comprehensive article can be written. Otherwise, the company with its singular reliable source would serve as a notable example in bootleg recording.Jappalang (talk) 02:54, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Note--while we're discussing or perhaps postponing, will one of you remove that long list? That's advertising, it seems to me. Drmies (talk) 15:40, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Whacked. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 17:04, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.