- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Article has been greatly improved and while not perfect now clearly satisifies the notability guideline, and there is consensus on this. Andrewa (talk) 13:38, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Tablewaiters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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This page came up as a random article. Having tidied up and sorted out some of the references and external links, I am not sure that this band has the required level of notability for the article to remain. The band released one single and recorded one album which was not released (nor, indeed, mixed). Only a vague claim to fame seems to be having appeared with other better known acts. It would appear that this band may have had some local following, but there is no indication of significant sales, chart entries or anything else to suggest notability. Emeraude (talk) 12:32, 25 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:20, 25 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:20, 25 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete I can't find much besides passing mentions, and no charting.Doctorhawkes (talk) 10:15, 26 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- McFarlane (1999) has no entry on Tablewaiters. The entry on The Birthday Party makes no mention of being supported by Tablewaiters. The use of this reference is deceptive at best. duffbeerforme (talk) 14:10, 26 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- And it's not the only source that does not support what is claimed. duffbeerforme (talk) 14:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- McFarlane briefly mentions Table Waiters in his article on 'Roddy Radalj'. However it does not support claims of touring/support slot list.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:53, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Borderline at best - it pains me slightly to note there's very little here. The references are indeed not good. Nor can I claim even to have heard of them before this. The creator, User:MrMoog, is clearly a fan, has flyers, etc; may have e.g. contemporary press coverage. (I see they haven't been pinged, they should be.) I fear Wikipedia may not be the place for this (though I'm still willing to be convinced otherwise) - David Gerard (talk) 07:52, 28 February 2014 (UTC) Edit: Wait on original author - he's dredging the clippings collection now - David Gerard (talk) 12:56, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I change my opinion to keep - great work MrMoog, Dan and Shaidar! - David Gerard (talk) 08:16, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Issues with sourcing, band has not charted or attracted alternative notability. It can be difficult with bands from a while back as it's not possible to search past newspapers for that period, but the issues Duffbeerforme identifies raise concerns. Orderinchaos 16:56, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - have addressed almost every issue relating to the references (so there is no deception as alluded to by Duffbeerforme) with the exception of the McFarlane entry for the Birthday Party, as I haven't been able to access the source to check. As indicated by Orderinchaosand David Gerard at this stage it is hard to check past newspapers online to ascertain any contemporary press coverage. Based however on the information I have been able to locate it appears that there may be a case for establishing the band's notability.Dan arndt (talk) 08:01, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I have a partial scrape of the copy of McFarlane that was on whammo.com.au - the Tablewaiters are not mentioned in the Birthday Party entry, and are not in fact mentioned anywhere in the files I have - David Gerard (talk) 14:04, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Did you check alternate spellings? See above for Table Waiters at 'Roddy Radalj' entry.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:53, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- No I didn't, well spotted! - David Gerard (talk) 22:17, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- * I have uploaded a sample worksheet which clears up the reference to the The Birthday Party support. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Birthday_Party_Tablewaiters_Nucleus_Worksheet_1983.jpg. As the band toured nationally and were covered in the national music press, there are other clippings reviews etc which I can also upload if this helps the case. As part of a stable of bands linked to Lobby Loyde such as Sardine_v Machinations Sunnyboys I should have thought that this would have been be a worthy addition to that information of that period in Australian Music.MrMoog (talk) 01:16, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Keep This would definitely help: support slots with other notable bands will add weight to Tablewaiters claims per WP:BAND. As for clippings: there was an article in Juke, of 17 April 1982, but I can't find a page reference. It would also help if MrMoog declared their association with the group: former member, management or ardent fan? If the various claims can be reliably substantiated I'm looking to Keep this article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:42, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]- Comment Thanks yes, here are a small sample of more worksheets; https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Worksheet_Summerfest_melbourne_tablewaiters_supporting_Men_at_Work_and_Mental_as_Anything.jpg, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Worksheet_1983_Split_Enz_tour_tablewaiters.jpg, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Worksheet_b_1983_Split_Enz_tour_tablewaiters.jpg, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Worksheet_Capitol_Theatre_Tablewaiters_supporting_Psychedelic_Furs.jpg, in order support spots for Men at Work with Mental as Anything at Summerfest 1983 in Melbourne. Also part of a tour they did with Split Enz and finally a spot they did with the visiting British Band The Psychedelic Furs. As a fan and a close associate of the members involved I have kept boxes of ephemera from that period, and have also kept some newspaper clippings from that period of varying quality. (It was thirty years ago).MrMoog (talk) 10:23, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- To show they're noteworthy, the newspaper coverage would be useful. You don't have to upload it for proof (and it'd clearly be someone else's copyright), but if you cite it and quote it accurately that'll be quite sufficient :-) If they got piles of press coverage, that helps a lot - David Gerard (talk) 12:56, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks, have added some references to the actual article - clippings that I can identify because of their clarity and in one case the actual magazine which is here. A lot of the other newspaper clippings are poorly noted or non existent dating and sourcing. I can upload these as someone maybe able to identify the source via the writer. Hope this helps.MrMoog (talk) 23:31, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This all seems to be "notability by association" for a band that released one single and never completed an album. Emeraude (talk) 10:29, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- They're still a bit borderline, but this is way better than it was - David Gerard (talk) 12:30, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Gye Bennetts is independently notable and could have his own article as a member of two other notable bands, Roddy Radalj and The Surfin' Caesars (1989), and Hitmen D.T.K. (1989–90) (see Holmgren ref in article). Tablewaiters qualifies at WP:BAND criteria #1, #4, and #6. Only one criterion is required for notability.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 19:35, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Have added some links found for the Tablewaiter drummers Hywrka and Bennetts, both previously came from a band called The Agents which was James Griffin's bandMrMoog (talk) 10:27, 6 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite (talk) 01:20, 9 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 17:08, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.