The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is that this character is notable StarM 22:14, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Toro (cartoon character)[edit]

This article is rather odd. While apparently a mascot for Sony Japan, very little actual information on the character to cite in terms of reception or design seems to exist, compounded by the fact that the major Sony articles don't link to it in any form. Suggesting deletion on the grounds that the subject itself doesn't need an article given the information at hand. Kung Fu Man (talk) 21:37, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletions. Kung Fu Man (talk) 21:41, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: oddly, can't seem to find any reception on this either. Seems to be kind of orphaned, like it's a little known piece of trivia rather than a notable mascot for the organization. That said, if someone can come up with a suitable merge target, I might support that. Switching to Keep: and expand. Icemotoboy found a bit of coverage. (It usually helps other editors if they can see how much information comes from the sources, because right now it only looks like a few small details.) But I'm convinced there has to be a ton of stuff on this topic in Japan. If not, then a rename to Doko Demo Issho might result in a more comprehensive article. Randomran (talk) 22:04, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep. Being "odd" is not a reason for AfD. The subject is Japanese subject, and not all subjects are easily understood by western culture, nor has this character been popularized for western audiences - lest they also find him "odd". Read the website devoted to him. It's a popular robotic and soft toy product. His origin is the main character of "Doko demo issho" a successful first-party Sony Playstation game, and he is sometimes touted as SCE's mascot. His birthday has been celebrated by Sony in Japan. "Toro Inoue, the popular white cat mascot seen in many Playstation games". Please do a google search before AfD'ing a topic, and realise that wikipedia should not be biased towards subjects understood by western/english audiences only. Icemotoboy (talk) 22:12, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- in case you missed Doko demo issho... "Adventure game from Sony Computer Entertainment, starring the popular Japanese cartoon cat Toro. Doko Demo Issyo means 'together everywhere.'" Icemotoboy (talk) 22:15, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- And another reference from IGN about "Sony Computer Entertainment Japan's once great mascot game". It bothers me when I can find all this information in a matter of minutes from an internet search. Icemotoboy (talk) 22:21, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Way to assume some bad faith. If anything, it was nominated as "an odd article" because for a mascot there was no reception information, and the article is a bare-bones skeleton. Is there reception to it or just a bunch of merchandise? If there is I'd recommend gladly instead of chastising people for "being unable to find things" and making a judgment call that you instead work the info into the article. Works out a lot better that way.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 22:27, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not suggesting bad faith, I'm suggesting being lazy. Icemotoboy (talk) 22:40, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No, being "odd" is not reason to delete, but the character having a website about it, and being in multiple games/etc. is not enough to confer notability. It is true that being popular in western culture is not a criteria for notability. However, the character must still meet the notability guidelines, meaning significant, non-trivial coverage outside the universe in which the character was created. If you can demonstrate that in Japan, or anywhere else for that matter, this character is subject of such coverage, it should be kept. However, being popular in Japan or elsewhere must be domonstrated, it cannot just be claimed, and you can not argue away a lack of general notability by saying those who nominated the article are biased. Please assume good faith. That said, due to a lack of demonstrated notability I would have to argue for deletion. Theseeker4 (talk) 22:28, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, how about the IGN article I posted above, "Sony Computer Entertainment Japan's once great mascot game". The game based on the character was won the award for gamers' favorite character in the IGN Playstation awards in 2000. I can't read Japanese, but this character has been covered plenty enough by IGN. The character has had a string of games made around him, and if you do a google translate on the site pitching his products you will see he still has a major string of events and products placed around him. He has won a major (IGN) playstation award for gamer's favorite character. In fact, he's well referenced in the Mainichi Issho article, the latest game to come out of Sony around him on the PS3. He's THE major franchise of SCE in Japan. Icemotoboy (talk) 22:38, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep. The character won a major award, had toys based on it, and it is a mascot for Sony Japan Computer Entertainment Japan. Not only has this got sources, it even has real world notability and effects. - Mgm|^(talk) 23:00, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete. I'm not seeing the notability here, but it's borderline. Xihr 23:27, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I highly recommend finding someone who can speak Japanese and asking them to see if they can find sources (WP:JAPAN seems like a good place). If this mascot isn't used much outside of Japan, then most sources displaying notability will be in Japanese. We shouldn't exclude information even if notability can only be established in another language, no matter how limiting that can be to the construction of the article -- Sabre (talk) 23:29, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well I found two english sources: IGN 1, IGN 2. The second notes that the character won an IGN Playstation award in 2000. If these references aren't valid for notability, someone let me know and I'll find some more. Icemotoboy (talk) 23:32, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep As per MGM. Award winning character; lots of sources. Edward321 (talk) 00:11, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Comment Given that I'm "lazy" and obviously not apparently "busy", it would be beneficial for the sources being cited for keep to be properly added to the article by those noting their existence, rather than leaving it a stub...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I probably could have exercised a lot more tact in dealing with it. So I apologise if I offended you with that. You make considerable contributions to the VG project. I am just very careful when it comes to nominating for AfD's, and in this case, I found it very easy to find references. I'd like to suggest that it would be really awesome if our editors would just do that little bit more when it comes to AfD's, and just go that "smidgen" further with their google searches. And if something from a foreign culture seems a bit odd, get someone familiar with that culture to check it out. It *looks* lazy when AfD's get nominated and it seems easy to find references. Icemotoboy (talk) 09:15, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and expand. Notable character; agreed the article needs more sourcing but looks like that should be pretty easy to accomplsih. 23skidoo (talk) 02:37, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as a notable character. Tavix (talk) 04:43, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.