The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Editors can consider merging by being bold or starting a discussion on the talk page Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 16:23, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Triangular corner flags in English football[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Of the five accessible sources in the article, only one appears to actually be about this topic; the other four are only passing mentions or otherwise not specifically about triangular corner flags. One of the sources is Football-Stadiums.co.uk, which as far as I can tell is not used in any other article (and in any case, I am unsure about its reliability). I don't have any access to the two books so I don't know how much detail they give the topic. As for triangular corner flags themselves, most of what I could find online are forum posts. Had corner flag been a separate article rather than a redirect, I would have suggested a merge there. At best, perhaps this could get a brief mention at FA Cup. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:37, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:40, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:40, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:40, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Football pitch - Properly sourced, this could be an encyclopaedic topic, but not as a separate article. Corner flag would be my preference, but since that topic is also insufficiently notable for its own article, football pitch will have to do. – Pee Jay 09:46, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It fulfills WP:GNG, this is a tradition in English football culture which is certainly not insubstantial. Indeed I could even cite the film (which I think I will). The sources are more than just passing mentions for example, the Telegraph one is stating that the Triangular flags are a reason for why AFC Wimbledon was stating a claim to be the heirs to Wimbledon. The book sources cite the tradition being used popularly but erroneously in quizzes and the other cites football context. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:52, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 09:53, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into football pitch (not independently notable) and then delete (not a valid search term). Giant Snowman 09:54, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@GiantSnowman: As far as I know, "delete and merge" is not exactly valid due to attribution reasons (in that an article can't be deleted if it's a source of merged content). It needs to be one or the other. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:57, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You merge the history into the existing article and then delete the redirect. Giant Snowman 09:59, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 10:02, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note The above merge !votes appear to have been WP:CANVASSed by Naruto here and here. The reason why they have been told about this on their talk pages seems to be based upon opinions given at WT:FOOTY. To me in my opinion, it is giving the appearance of WP:VOTESTACK. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 10:03, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note - WP:AGF applies. An editor went to a WikiProject for advice on notability of an article, was informed by two experienced editors that it did not appear notable, and then took it to AFD. Giant Snowman 10:09, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not really, the editors I pinged were users who had participated in the earlier discussion at WT:FOOTBALL, regardless of their opinions of the article. If there were any other editors who mentioned they wanted the article to be kept, I would have pinged them too. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:10, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

- - Not to mention the fact that I am my own person. I had something to add to the discussion, so I added to it, not simply because I was asked to. – Pee Jay 17:22, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep If this is (as it appears) an obscure tradition, then we can validly have a separate article on it. Merged to football pitch (which is also international) it would be lost in UNDUE. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:06, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This is an AfD discussion page and discuss whether delete or not. Not discuss about merge. Merge discussion please see WP:PM, thank you. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 10:08, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alternatives to deletion can be proposed/discussed here. Giant Snowman 10:10, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Off-topic discussion
Yeah. I know. Since it sent to AfD, so we should discuss here first. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 10:13, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply] Which is what we're doing...? Giant Snowman 10:22, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply] Just note to nominator. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 10:51, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to football pitch, the content of this article could easily be summarised there without violating WP:UNDUE. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 10:21, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- But wouldn't that be UNDUE by giving weight to an English cultural tradition in a page that is supposed to be about global football pitches in general? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 14:28, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. The existing football pitch article only mentions the existence of corner flags as delineating the pitch dimensions. The article could go on to say that flags are normally square (?), but in some cases triangular flags are used (sourced to the NYT article). Jmorrison230582 (talk) 15:39, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The NYT article demonstrates the notability of the topic. Andrew D. (talk) 15:24, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Notable bit of football trivia, passes WP:GNG due to diverse number of sources. SportingFlyer talk 05:00, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This is total trivia. The NYT article gives no evidence that the practice of having a triangular flag only if you had won the FA Cup is true. --Bduke (Discussion) 09:31, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/Weak Keep - I'd prefer Merge for the arguments made, but a straight keep if need be (though I would assume that if it wasn't kept as is, then it would be merged). If the sources given were slightly stronger then it would be a straight (Weak) Keep. Nosebagbear (talk) 11:53, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- @Nosebagbear: I have added another source about it. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 07:10, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - to Football pitch. Some coverage warranting comment but not enough for a standalone article. Fenix down (talk) 07:55, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- But that would be UNDUE as football pitch barely even mentions corner flags let alone their size and shape. To put this article into that one would put undue weight on the corner flags when they are not really that important in the grand scale of football pitches. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 07:10, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - Exactly and this small tradition barely needs mentioning. Merging doesn't mean copying the whole text. Fenix down (talk) 11:10, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    - The fact there is more information about this culture and tradition shows there is more worth mentioning. Indeed maybe I ought to create an article for Corner flags which would be a more appropriate place for it to be in than lost in the football pitch should this !poll go down the merge route but at the moment it looks like a no consensus to me. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 11:29, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@The C of E: creating a whole article, even if better suited, might be a little OTT atm, putting it under the FA Cup (or FA cup final) might make more sense Nosebagbear (talk) 12:15, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, WP:OR, anybody can use a triangular flag in English Football, for any reason, so this isn't a tradition, it is trivia. Szzuk (talk) 17:58, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – I think the sources are sufficient to warrant this.--Newbiepedian (talk · C · X! · L) 02:52, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.