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March 3

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The result of the debate was speedy delete (G7). --MarkSweep (call me collect) 13:06, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I created this as a category instead of a template mistakenly. Esprit15d 21:26, 3 March 2006 (UTC).Reply[reply]
Speedy deleted then. CG 15:03, 4 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Category:Drugs cheats in sport

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The result of the debate was rename to Doping cases in sport. Syrthiss 12:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Rename: "Drugs cheats" is a POV and potentially libelous designation -- some of the people listed here (example: Olga Pyleva) were disqualified for alledgedly accidentally ingesting a banned substance as an unlabeled ingredient in over-the-counter medication. I propose to rename all subcategories "Drugs cheats in..." to "Doping cases in...", although deleting the categories outright is also an option, and has been considered before: Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Category:Drugs cheats in sport. Mareklug talk 20:05, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]


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Category:Roman Catholic painters

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The result of the debate was delete. Syrthiss 12:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Religion does not strike me as a meaningful way of classifying painters; there are no parallel categories for other religious traditions. -choster 19:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

For example, Category:Roman Catholics lists Gerald Bull, the designer of huge cannons, once employed by Saddam Hussein. It feels as joke (to me). Pavel Vozenilek 19:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]


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Category:Religious NPOV disputes

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The result of the debate was delete. Syrthiss 12:47, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Largely unused and duplicate category. Often entries get listed in NPOV and religious NPOV because no templates exist for religious NPOV. Sorting disputes will eventually be done by date (per relevant talk pages). As about the only one that uses the category to clean up NPOV disputes, it isn't helpful. -- Jbamb 18:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]


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Category:Eponymous musical terms

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The result of the debate was delete and articlefy (?). Syrthiss 12:46, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Categories are not for manually managed lists. The actual category contains no articles or images. This should be an article, not a category. I am proposing the category be deleted and the content moved to an article. Esprit15d 18:00, 3 March 2006 (UTC).Reply[reply]


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Category:Temple and synagogues architecture to Category:Jewish temple and synagogue architecture

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The result of the debate was rename as nominated. Syrthiss 12:45, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The temples intended are the Jewish ones, but >99.9% of temples in the world are not Jewish. The plural is incorrect. Bhoeble 16:10, 3 March 2006 (UTC).Reply[reply]


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Category:Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums

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The result of the debate was delete. —akghetto talk 09:36, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This list has nowhere near the currency or the established, systematized selection process of, say, the Fortune 500; it's a subjective and proprietary ranking. Rolling Stone isn't above the odd marketing ploy now and then. -choster 06:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Category:Spartak Moscow footballers to Category:FC Spartak Moscow players

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The result of the debate was keep. Syrthiss 12:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The category should be renamed to be in line with other "[football club] players" categories. Conscious 06:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]


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Category:Cougars to Category:Cougar women

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The result of the debate was delete. —akghetto talk 09:33, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The very least that can be said is that, the application of the term "cougar" for the constituents of this category is vastly less common than for mountain lions or Mercury sedans. -choster 05:42, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Category:1990s webcomics

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The result of the debate was no consensus. Syrthiss 12:39, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Way too broad and redundant with the general webcomics category. Webcomics currently can only be in 1990s webcomics, or 2000s webcomics - and are typically in the late 1990s/early 2000s group, so this categorisation splits the general category uselessly and fairly meaninglessly down the middle. This CFD also covers Category:2000s webcomics, using the same argument. - Fangz 04:20, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]


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Category:Musical software to Category:Music software

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The result of the debate was rename. Syrthiss 12:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Software isn't musical as a sound might be considered musical; instead, software used in the production or recording of music usually known as "music software". David Kernow 01:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There are also a few other subcategories of Category:Music named "Musical ..." that I'm thinking of putting forward for renaming to "Music ...", assuming the above is renamed. David Kernow 12:36, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]


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Category:Quran to Category:Qur'an

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The result of the debate was delete. -- TexasAndroid 22:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Qur'an is the preferred spelling on Wikipedia (as well as many other parts of the English-speaking world). joturner 01:25, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Category:Wikipedians who love to run

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The result of the debate was delete. -- TexasAndroid 22:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I found this new category under Category:Wikipedians interested in running, and I thought it was a tad redundant... Chirality 01:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Category:Wikipedians censored by Islamist editors

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The result of the debate was speedy delete. (Actually, it was deleted before the debate even began, as far as I can see. -- TexasAndroid 22:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Divisive and inflammatory. This is needlessly uncivil; borderline speedy. Rhobite 01:05, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Adding Category:Wikipedians censored by Zionist editors and Category:Wikipedians censored by Hindutva editors as these two were made in response to the Islamist cat. Pepsidrinka 03:24, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You want rid of this already? It's only existed for two hours! Have you read the description? How is this uncivil? This category exists for people on the recieving end of uncivil behavior. Please note: I am refering to Islamist & not Islamic. From the description;

This category is for Wikipedians who feel that they have been censored/bullied by Islamists on Wikipedia regarding valid/fair/worthy additions to articles.

The creation of this category is not a deliberate attempt to be inflammatory or offensive. This category was created by user:Veej soon after reading user:OceanSplash's comments here. Though user:Veej disagrees with user:OceanSplash on so many issues & believes he is generalizing followers of a major world religion, user:OceanSplash does highlight the lack of a support structure for people critical of Islamists. This category should help Wikipedians find support, so they don't feel alone. Wikipedians in this category should definitely not try to foster hate in any way. This is not a directly political category. It is simply a category for Wikipedians who have been victims of censorship/bullying by Islamist editors.

I've been needlessly bullied by Islamist editors. Please see here. So you believe I should be denied support? Why? Veej 02:01, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If you feel you're being bullied, you should follow the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution process instead of creating divisive categories. No matter what you say, this is obviously a deliberate attempt to be inflammatory. Censorship is a strong word, and I'm certain that you're misusing it. There is no guarantee of free speech on Wikipedia. Complaining about "censorship" is just applying a loaded term -- one which is normally used to describe action by governments -- to a process which is normal here. Rhobite 02:24, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You call this category divisive but I don't see how it's more divisive than other categories. The phenomena of categorizing wikipedians, by it's very nature, is bound to be divisive to some extent. So should everything under Category:Wikipedians be deleted?. I'm dissapointed that you'd insinuate that I'm lying when I state that the, "creation of this category is not a deliberate attempt to be inflammatory" rather than explain why you believe the use of this category is inflammatory. By inflammatory, I assume you mean 'tending to excite anger'. So effectively, you believe this category exists purely to anger Islamists rather than to achieve the aims stated in the category description. It's very difficult to argue against you when you refuse to assume good faith because nothing I can say would be satisfactory. You believe that I'm misusing the word 'censored'. Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary simply defines it as "to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable". No mention of action by governments there. Obviously 'censored' is a strong word & here refers to extreme behavior which is why it's correct use. If a wikipedian applied this category to themselves & they hadn't suffered vehement attempts of censorship by Islamist editors, then & only then would it be incorrect use of the word. I'm not insisting on a 'guarantee of free speech on Wikipedia', nor is this category's existence a complaint about censorship. It is simply a category for Wikipedians who have been victims of censorship/bullying by Islamist editors. You're reading far more into this than you need to. Veej 03:23, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Please don't rely on dictionary definitions to support your point in arguments. The word "censorship" does have an official or governmental connotation which is inappropriate here. Yes, this category does nothing but incite anger. The fact that other users have responded with their own anti-Zionist and anti-Hindu categories confirms this. Maybe you didn't intend for this category to be inflammatory, but that was the result. In a debate over deletion, intent is irrelevant. Nobody's trying to punish you. Rhobite 03:35, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry, you're right about dictionary definitions. They're embarrassingly petty.Veej 04:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I had hoped that the use of this category could eventually develop into a support network along the same lines of Wikipedia:Esperanza. But obviously differing in that those involved would share similar grievances. This sort of community project can never develop without users finding each other with the use of this category. Also, I believe that it's unfair to lump in my category with User:Siddiqui's two categories. Obviously there are strong parallels between all 3 but they are not the same & should survive or be deleted on their own merits. The motives for their creation are totally different. Islamist, Zionist & Hindutva are different words with different connotations. Veej 03:58, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Category:Feel-Good Stories

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The result of the debate was delete. — Mar. 12, '06 [12:22] <freakofnurxture|talk>

has a non-measurable guidelines for inclusion, needless pov categorization.  ALKIVAR™ 00:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC).Reply[reply]
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Category:Fictional Autistic people to Category:Fictional autistic people

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The result of the debate was speedy rename. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 13:02, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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Category:Fictional blind characters to Category:Fictional blind people

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The result of the debate was Keep current name. ×Meegs 22:45, 12 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Keep as is , per Pedsidrinka. FloNight talk 20:04, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Category:Kurdistan

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The result of the debate was keep. —akghetto talk 09:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Comment Please try to understand the situation before rejecting anything that could be remotelly political. Kurdistan is not a country, it is just a geographical location, a proposed 'country' by a few nationalist Kurds. Instead of jumping to conclusions, atleast give a valid reason for rejecting this suggestion --Kash 12:51, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Please don't be patronising. In my opinion your background actually makes you particularly ill-equipped to judge this issue compared with the average Wikipedian. People from neutral countries are better equipped to understand the issue than people from neighbouring countries which do not have a free press but do have a government which relentlessly promotes a nationalist line on this issue. Bhoeble 16:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
How is that relevant? What government does, does not reflect in it's people. This is the same mistake that terrorists make. Please don't make this mistake again, I see it as a personal attack. --Kash 10:05, 7 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You must be an easy target for propagandists if you believe that propaganda can have no effect on you! Hawkestone 19:57, 9 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment Such greatly described argument deserves a merit! Thank you. If these do not satisfy anyone below, I would like to introduce admins to question why this may be, Thanks --Kash 14:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment But Kurdistan has never been a country and will possibly never be one, its just name created by Kurd nationalists and it is not recognised by any state. The suggestion land and location was never invaded by enemies --Kash 17:48, 3 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment yes and kurdistan is not like that. It is not invaded, it never existed in the first place (aside from a few revolts). Polland existed for centuries. It was invaded and ceased to be a country. It became a country once again with the fall of the soviet union (IIRC). During the soviet occupation it was a province (IIRC), kurdistan isnt even that.
Interesting! This user even does not know what is Kurdistan. Mr/Mrs! Kurdistan Exists!
Diyako Talk + 21:15, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kurdistan&curid=80777&diff=42353157&oldid=42351983 Diyako Talk + 16:19, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Who is republic of Turkey?! a new biased country. wikipedia is not the place for propaganda for such countries. Diyako Talk + 17:37, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What does a 'biased country' mean? Propoganda is trying to make Kurdistan look like a country, which is what you are trying to do here --Kash 17:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What are you dyako? Republic of Turkey, just like the United states is a recognised nation. Marking its provinces with the category in question is bad taste. --Cool CatTalk|@ 20:41, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Maybe you do not know what is categorization. Categorization does not mean that X is a country. Everything can bee categorized. evrything for example books.Diyako Talk + 17:52, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No, I know what categorisation is. But you guys are trying to fool readers of wikipedia to think Kurdistan is a country by making a category for a 'proposed location' without any borders, which is not recognised by any organisation beside Humanrights watch, which is only concerned about the Kurd people, not the borderds of a 'proposed country' --Kash 17:55, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I know what categorization is, marking sovereign states with a proposed state is nothing but pov pushing. Even a restourant in berlin germany is in kurdistan, if the category is kept I am thinking of marking random us states with kurdistan. --Cool CatTalk|@ 20:41, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Republic of Turkey, in Turkish Türkiye Cumhuriyeti, TC is mostly used by kurdish people, is the official name of Turkey. Secondly, Reoublic of Turkey didn't signed the Treaty of Sèvres, but Ottoman Dynasty. republic of Turkey signed the Treaty of Lozan. This area belongs the Republic of Turkey. There is no 30 million kurds Your suggestion cannot be a reason to keep the article.--TuzsuzDeliBekir 18:06, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is the Sèvres Treaty irrelevant because it eventually was replaced by the Lausanne Treaty? As the Kurds are not recognized all figures are estimates - but for sure it is the Worlds largest nation without its own state.Bertilvidet 18:20, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, it is irrelevant, because of Treaty of Lausanne. but for sure it is the Worlds largest nation without its own state just a propaganda. There are lots of ethnic gruops that say the same. --TuzsuzDeliBekir 18:35, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you think so, you should argue for deletion of the Treaty of Sèvres article. I haven't heard of any larger nation without a state, but would like to know if there is. Bertilvidet 21:01, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Taiwan case is much more different than Kurdistan. Besides, only Kurdish people call this region Kurdistan, because they want to be a free country.
It isn't a map of National Geographic. Just look closer. --TuzsuzDeliBekir 18:25, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have the actual map at home. See this map and compare it to other national geographic maps. --Khoikhoi 19:32, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Could you, please, share the differences of Kurds and their neighboors ? As you said it was recognized, because of Treaty of Sèvres. Now, there is no country recognize it.--TuzsuzDeliBekir 19:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No,there is no country recognised now.but neither is the Soviet union Category:Soviet Union.both states existed,no matter for how long each of them.and about the differences,they have their own language and culture.these two things make them distinct enough.And afterall it is JUST a category page!as many other category pages...It would be better not to make it a matter of politics!--Hectorian 19:50, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sorry but you still look politically at the issue. If in the past in an article (which is on an assassination against some Kurdish leaders) a user wrongly used that caregory it does not mean we should erase whole categorization. You could simply help wikipedia by removing that category link as I did. Opposing whole categorization is really suspecious.
Diyako Talk + 21:08, 5 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's is just your pure POV anon newcommer user.Diyako Talk + 09:38, 6 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]


The place has been known as 'Mezapotamia' for thousand years. I think, Kurdistan is JUST a political propaganda of kurds. Besides, if it was aimed to present info. of kurds, we already have more categories of kurds. We should say Strong delete for it--TuzsuzDeliBekir 17:58, 6 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Mr/Mrs turkish user! Maybe you have not read nothing on Kurdistan but turkish articles. I suggest you have a look on encyclopedias. There is explained what is Kurdistan and at least you will educate yourself something neutral. Diyako Talk + 18:02, 6 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There is not only Turks but also Iranian and other users support to delete it. Additionally, encyclopedias make usually mistakes. There is no such kind of place in the world, but in the mind of kurds as a utopia. --TuzsuzDeliBekir 18:36, 6 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

turkish user! Read and learn. The people of world are not only turks!! Encyclopedia BritannicaEncyclopedia Britannica Diyako Talk + 18:38, 6 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Kurdish User, I haven't said that the world belongs to Turks. I must ask you to stop talking like that. This encyclopedia is not a place where you can make your propaganda. --TuzsuzDeliBekir 18:45, 6 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
turkish user! I make the same propaganda as any neutral encyclopedia do, such as Britannica. propaganda for neutrality and truth. On ther other hand I'm against any political or biased propaganda made by some users.Diyako Talk + 18:50, 6 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]


kurdish nationalist, look at the same encyclopedia for Republic of Turkey, Mezapotamia. Eventually, you will see that there is no such kind of place in the world. I can clearly see that you are aganist only one politic that is aganist kurdistan.--TuzsuzDeliBekir 18:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
turkish user! your problem is that you only think of country! what is country?! it is not God! Kurdistan is a historical region and distint from its neighboring regions. This is all. Is it hard to understand?! I don't believe so, especially for those who do not look politically at issues.Diyako Talk + 19:31, 6 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Could you, please, show me your historical sources ? any written, any architecture. This place has been called ' Mezopotamya ' for thousand years. Kurds immigrated to region, like Turks. Let's talk about their origin. then we can find how they are different from their neighbors. Is there anything relating with Jews ? You are trying to change the name of it according to your political idea.--TuzsuzDeliBekir 22:22, 6 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment Diyako: Please stop pushing your POV here, let users project their opinions. Thanks. --Kash 00:38, 7 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment: May I suggest that not just one, but both sides, conduct the heated debate somewhere else. Both are pushing POV and repeating arguments already presented here. Bertilvidet 08:40, 7 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Strong Keep, we have Category:Central Asia and Category:Near East both ill-defined regions that have never been a country so-called. We also have Category:Anatolia which is a somewhat defined subset of Turkey. And most pointedly, we also have Category:Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus a region whose independence is recognized only by Turkey. I suppose those who propose deleting Kurdistan because it's not a real country are just as avid that the Northern Cyprus category go as well. Carlossuarez46 23:38, 7 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Comment: Everyone recognises Central Asia, and Near East. 'Northern Cyprus' is recognized by Turkey as you say, Kurdistan (the 'proposed area' not the Iranian\Iraqi province) is not recognised by anyone --Kash 02:23, 8 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment: Not everyone recognises the Near East as that is a Eurocentric term which some have replaced with terms like Middle East and West Asia. The fact that two relevant countries (Iran and Iraq) recognise the existence of Kurdistan by naming subnational entities as such should not be overshadowed by the Turkish refusal to do likewise. I would also point out that geographically nearby there is a Category:Balochistan despite the fact that this region is not an independent country. The region overlaps three countries but although Pakistan and Iran both recognise the existence of this region by naming the relevant subnational entities (Balochistan Province of Pakistan and Sistan and Baluchistan Province of Iran). Afghanistan does not recognise any part of Balochistan overlapping it's territory so it does not have a similar entity despite external recognition of Balochis living in Afghanistan such as this map at the University of Texas [2]. That doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means the Afghan government doesn't recognise it. So why cannot the same logic be applied to Kurdistan? Green Giant 02:55, 8 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No country recognizes Central Asia as a political entity; and many would disagree with its extent as a geographical term. Ditto Near East. Kurdistan as a geographic area with ambiguous limits is a term in common parlance except where it is politcally frowned upon. We have a category Category:Confederate States of America which no country formally recognized diplomatically. Carlossuarez46 02:57, 8 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Let me correct you, Iran and Iraq do not recognise 'Kurdistan' as described in Kurdistan, as I said, they recognise the other meanings found at Kurdistan_(disambiguation).

Words can be euro-centric, but I am from Middle east where words Middle East and Near East, etc are all used no matter where they originated from. --Kash 11:50, 8 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Comment: Problem is that the category Kurdistan is being used to have everything about Kurds in it, even Kurdish resturants in Germany. Now if Kurdistan means 'Land of Kurds', then we should all agree that the category has been mis-used. It should be deleted or renamed to Kurds or something similar --Kash 11:52, 8 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Kash, you rightly asked Diyako not to push his POV and let users project their opinions on this site. May I suggest you to set a good example. Bertilvidet 16:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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