Stephano Barberis (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

New evidence Deletion review discussion questioned Barberis's notability. Recently, Barberis was incorporated into the University of Toronto Press's Canadian Who's Who of 2010. According to the CWW wikipedia page, "CWW is a comprehensive source of biographical information on leading and influential Canadians and is used by researchers, the media and other interested parties to obtain background information on such individuals." Canadian Who's Who This information was not available at the time of the deletion discussion and can be added to the page. Kanis103 (talk) 18:56, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Overturn That was a fairly broken discussion. One person claimed the awards listed were for a call center (they aren't), two people discussed some fairly good sources (one quite good [1], one with two paragraphs or so on the subject [2]). FisherQueen indicated that one more source would likely move them from delete to keep and the second source was supplied. Both !votes after the sources were supplied were keeps (though one was a bit cutting both seemed to think the sources were enough). I think it's a keep. Hobit (talk) 04:45, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

temporarily undelted for discussions DGG ( talk ) 18:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Closing admin: I accorded no weight to the self-confessed "pointy keep", thank you very much. Not to mention that comparing directors and porn actors, whose notability is evaluated under a different guideline, is like comparing apples with oranges. MQS's keep was based on meeting ANYBIO (presumably based on the awards), but he supplied no evidence that the awards are notable and thus failed to overcome FisherQueen's argument that "those awards weren't reported on by any independent sources". T. Canens (talk) 20:25, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Side note: no one bothered to notify me about this discussion; I would have missed it had I not seen DGG restoring the article on my watchlist. T. Canens (talk) 00:32, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I apologize if I didn't format this discussion appropriately; however, I did contact you earlier. If you look in your July archives, I asked for a reconsideration of the deletion due to the new information received regarding the Canadian Who's Who Reference text. I feel that it would be considered a reliable independent source regarding Barberis's notability. When a response was not received, I put forth the appeal here.Kanis103 (talk) 03:28, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Apologies about not responding to that; I must have missed it. But when you initiate a DRV here, you need to notify me by placing ((subst:DRVNote)) on my talk page so that I know that a DRV has been initiated. Anyway, no harm done. And the answer to your question is: it depends on the depth of coverage: a simple mention would not count, but if it's multiple paragraphs written by someone unrelated to Barberis, it probably would. Without seeing the text, it is impossible to tell. T. Canens (talk) 06:53, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thank you for the information. Having never done this before, I wasn't sure if I was doing this correctly or not. RE: Canadian Who's Who. According to the text, the University of Toronto Press contacts individuals who they've deemed appropriate for inclusion. They provide individuals with a questionnaire and then they compile the biographies based upon the information. In the foreward of the text it states, "Biographies are chosen on merit alone. Those listed are selected because of the positions they hold in Canadian society, or because of the contribution they have made to life in Canada." (Elizabeth Lumely, Feb 2010) This foreward and the biography itself can be scanned to be included as an independent source. Kanis103 (talk) 14:10, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• The pointy keep did however claim there were enough sources, which by the letter of WP:N there were. MQS make a similar comment. Yes they could have explained themselves _much_ better, but I'd claim their vague wave toward a guideline was enough when the article did meet the letter of that guideline. "Meets WP:N" or "doesn't meet WP:N" are air and common !votes when the letter of the guideline is or isn't met. ANYBIO is the same. Hobit (talk) 11:39, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• • No objections to restoring MQS' draft from me. T. Canens (talk) 15:24, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Endorse as within discretion. MQS's keep !vote asserts ANYBIO without anything else - this must be read in light of the more thorough consideration of the awards by FisherQueen and Stifle above him. On objective strength of argument, the closing admin was entitled to close this as delete. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:05, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Restore MQS' userspace draft. The article has sufficiently improved that the AfD should not bind its retention. I don't know whether the article fully establishes notability; the point is that should be judged at AfD (if anyone wants to take the restored article there) not here). --Mkativerata (talk) 07:27, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Endorse deletion as proper reading of the debate and within admin discretion. Stifle (talk) 08:19, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I continue to endorse the deletion, but would support restoring MQS's userspace draft. Stifle (talk) 08:07, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• A defective debate that wrongly focused on the current state of the article rather than its potential. With the honourable exception of Kanis103, I find it hard to believe that many of those comments were based on a diligent search for sources. The close was in accordance with consensus but the consensus was not in accordance with policy. Relist for a proper discussion by editors inclined to search for sources and evaluate whether an article could exist with this title—not whether this article can exist with this title.—S Marshall T/C 10:24, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Given we are discussing what people meant by their !votes, I've contacted all AfD participants who haven't already commented here. Hobit (talk) 17:45, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Restore article without prejudice based upon newer evidences above, unavailable at the time of close. I imply no disrespect to closer, as his decision was per consensus... but as User:S Marshall clarifies above, the consensus itself was flawed, being based upon current state and not upon potential for improvement. To explain my own !vote... it was based upon the numerous assertions of notability that allowed me a per-guideline presumption that sources existed and upon the article tone and style being addressable as a surmountable issue. So let's give the closer a thank you, and let's get back to work on making the article suitably encyclopdic for the project, and not argue about how bad it originally was. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 22:33, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • And by the way... the "BCCMA" awards in the article come from the British Columbia Country Music Association... and yes... they appear notable,[3] and the awards citable. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 01:17, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• OverturnI do not see a consensus to delete. In particular the delete argument "Delete unless cleaned up" was dead contrary to policy. Even more, the very nomination was not sure of notability, and was also basically s nomination for clean-up. (Everyone who said it needs cleanup were of course correct--it certainly does). Fisher Queen asked for a better source, and one was found. That leaves no valid delete arguments. DGG ( talk ) 00:05, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I've already !voted, but I think User:MichaelQSchmidt/workspace/Stephano Barberis gets us to WP:HEY in a DrV. Nice job MQS. Hobit (talk) 02:03, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Restore article - as per Schmidt and DGG, and without any disrespect for the original closing admin.--Kudpung (talk) 11:17, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Virtualology (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

Deleted with a single vote, that is a consensus of one. Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 05:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Two votes...you didn't count the nominator Purplebackpack89 06:03, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Endorse. The nom, an indexer, a !voter and the closer unanimously failed to object to deletion. What more can we do? Do you, Richard, have a reason for keeping the article. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:54, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Endorse last I looked there was no quorum. Ideally each afd would have between 20-30 well argued policy based votes for the closing admin to weigh but since this one only had 2 - both of which has a strong grounding in policy - the decision was pretty straightforward and the close was correct. If you want this back some evidence of notability would be much more persuasive then counting votes. Spartaz ^Humbug! 07:49, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge or relist to get a better consensus and a more reasonable outcome. If the website isn't independently notable it should simply be merged into the main article on its founder. Freakshownerd (talk) 14:05, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Endorse as this is about as invalid of a DRV rationale as one can possibly imagine. I would also note the bad faith shown to the closing admin, with the posting of a one-liner questioning of the close, followed by the notification that it was heading to DRV TWO MINUTES LATER. Tarc (talk) 14:15, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Relist There was one vote of "delete" that pointed out that maybe we shall see this article one day, indicating that the voter thought it MIGHT be notable. This is about as far from a consensus as we can get... It is the accepted norm that such articles are relisted for more discussion. DubZog (talk) 15:21, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Relist- A nomination and one delete vote do not, at least in my opinion, a consensus make. If its deleted after more discussion, thats fine, but in a non-speedy situation, we should err on the side of caution, and relist for greater discussion. Umbralcorax (talk) 15:25, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Relist- per Umbralcorax and DubZog. Let's have another look at it. IQinn (talk) 18:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Endorse- As Spartaz says, there is indeed no quorum. I looked at the nomination and the sole !vote, and found that they were well thought out and grounded in policy. Reyk _YO! 19:47, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Can Mr. Norton explain why he failed to make meaningful engagement with the closer of the discussion before listing here? As a frequent DRV nominator, he is well aware of the process. Stifle (talk) 19:47, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• In this case, discussing it with Cirt would have been a damn good idea. He closes a lot of AFDs as "delete" with one !vote but restores and relists most of them on a talk page request. Too late for that now as it looks as if this DR will be endorsed. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:44, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Endorse per Stifle and Tarc's questions on the rationale/timing, and Spartaz' rationale on closing. It had more review opportunities than a PROD. If you want it in mainspace, create a userspace draft and ask the closing admin to review the new article. Jclemens (talk) 19:57, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Can someone do a temp. undelete so we can all see the article. What little discussion there was discussed the sources as they existed, it's hard to see how valid those comments are. Hobit (talk) 21:30, 19 July 2010 (UTC) Nevermind, didn't look at the cached version.[reply]
• Endorse reasonable close, but userfy upon request. Seems like it might well be notable. Relisting would have been a reasonable (and IMO preferred) solution, but this was within discretion. Hobit (talk) 21:32, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Endorse per consensus at AfD. The only quorum required is a public listing of seven days - if people choose not to object to deleting the article, and there are only 2 (well-argued) cases for deletion, that is enough. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Relist it is ridiculous to close after so little discussion. With so many AfDs , not everything gets considered the firs time round; 1/4 or so of the article are relisted, and I can so no reason why the debate on this one we should not consider it further. I urge the closing admin to simply relist of his own accord. As the cache is not stable, I have undeleted the article for discussion. DGG ( talk ) 01:02, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak endorse: As Kativerata noted, there were two people who expressed opinion on this, the voter (who apparantly improperly closed it as well), and the nominator. Even if the AFD is lacking in numbers, it does have a strong argument for deletion. Purplebackpack89 05:59, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: The user who started this DRV is the same person who originally created the article. By the way, since the article history has been restored, can the talk page be restored also? Purplebackpack89 06:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Done, for what it's worth. Stifle (talk) 08:33, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Purple, how come you didn't tell RAN when you AfD'd the article? Reyk _YO! 13:09, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. For those with some extra time, this loooong AN thread from 2007 may be if interest. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 13:03, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I recall doing a good deal of work helping to remove the spamming from this site on Wikipedia, but their misbehaviour is no reason not to have an article on it. DGG ( talk ) 19:09, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't have an article because of it but still thought it might be of interest. Part of the original deletion rationale was WP:COI so it does help to know why that tag was on the article in the first place. For what its worth, the article predates the spam issue. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:22, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Endorse due to the nominator's failure to respond to reasonable questions or pursue his appeal. Stifle (talk) 08:22, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]