This is an archive of discussions about contested featured article candidates that were nominated in August 2004. Warning: not in perfect chronological order.

August 2004[edit]

Vaporware

Looks good - probably needs a bit of work - suggestions? ··gracefool |☺ 03:50, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Moved to Wikipedia:Peer Review. ··gracefool |☺ 22:32, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Photography

With the recent addition of a picture of the first photograph, I think this article is at, or at least very near, feature status. -- Solipsist 13:13, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Erich von Manstein

Partial self-nomination, but it really is probably one the best articles about a World War II personality. GeneralPatton 12:27, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Support. Well-written and highly informative article. Angmering 13:24, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Some objections. His military honors and his war crimes conviction could stand to be noted in the introduction. Also I have fixed many grammatical errors, so many that I am worried there are more I am missing. Mostly things like definite articles missing. A few additional specific things:
  • Is the "General Staff" a proper noun, or just a group of generals? If just a group of generals, it should not be capitalized. Similar for the "War Academy", does that academy have a name?
  • A quick notation for what the OKW is would help when it is first used, along with a "The" to set it off as an entity. I leave it to you whether you want to use something like "the Armed Forces High Command" since this is an article in English
  • While the pictures are fantastic, I am worried if fair use is good enough for using them. Fair use can only be claimed if they are a small portion of a larger work, and they are one of the few pictures used in Wikipedia from that work. Even then there are the problems with using fair use images at all.
  • Great material though overall. - Taxman 23:28, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)

Norse mythology

I have extensively rewritten the page, and its looking pretty good. I suppose this is a self nomination, but I didn't create the page or write most of the content. Sam [Spade] 04:09, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The list from 1) is mentioned only in the 'see also' section. I'd like to see it mentioned earlier in italic - perhaps under 'Clans of gods' you can add For detailed list see List of Norse mythological people, items and places. On that list I'd like to see a short description of every object like Loki, a god of trickery. The link to 2) is also not repeated in the influence section. The influence section is now restructured nicely, so I'll cross that one out. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:38, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[Spade] 05:13, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Transhumanism

An interesting and comprehensive article (not a self nom). Chubtoad 06:03, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Immortality

Partial self-nomination. A fine article on immortality from a variety of perspectives. It is comprehensive and includes several pictures and links. Chubtoad 06:35, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Being a bit more specific would be helpful prometheus1 21:03, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Mumbai

I have contributed to it but can hardly be called a self-nomination. Covers most topics you'd expect it to cover. --Hemanshu 01:23, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Japanese name

Originally written by me but went under heavily copyedit. -- Taku 00:14, Aug 7, 2004 (UTC)

How about a hanko or an impression of one?

Fg2 12:49, Aug 7, 2004 (UTC)

Or a photo of a nameplate on a house. Fg2 12:54, Aug 7, 2004 (UTC)
There's now an illustration thanks to User:TakuyaMurata. Fg2 06:36, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)
It has some more on historical names. I also added stage names, sumo names etc.Fg2 11:56, Aug 15, 2004 (UTC)
Some additional copyediting has been done.Fg2 11:56, Aug 15, 2004 (UTC)


American Pie (song)

It's a topic many people have wondered about; the article is comprehensive, informative, and well-organized in separating the mainstream theory on the song's meaning from the list of more creative theories. I don't think I contributed more than 1 sentence. Fishal 00:39, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Philip K. Dick

I contributed a bit to it, but it's not really a self-nomination. Covers a great deal of ground; I learned some interesting stuff from it. grendel|khan 15:25, 2004 Aug 6 (UTC)

Sorting algorithm

I have contributed a bit. -- Taku 00:14, Aug 7, 2004 (UTC)

DNA repair

Self-nomination. Need to build awareness on this fundamental biological process which is pivotal to aging and disease.

  1. Poorly written. Redundant and over-verbose phrasing. Sentences are long and clumsy, and should be cut into more easily comprehensible pieces. Full of technical jargon that is never explained in layman's terms (and often not even hyperlinked to the relevant article) and nearly impenetrable to a non-biologist like me. Even a few grammatical errors. Sorry, the information looks good but as far as clarity goes this needs a complete rewrite IMHO. Edit after discussion with User:Prometheus1: this text resembles the writing in many scientific journals and would probably be adequately comprehensible for expert biologists, but my objection is that I feel the article is not clear for laymen. The quality of the information is not in question.
  2. Dubious copyright situation with the images. Although they were submitted by their creator, they have a copyright tag on them. --Shibboleth 01:53, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Here is an example of the sort of drivel I refer to, which seems to be acceptable critique by wikipedians:

Well it might be a featured article candidate, but it's sure not "brilliant prose". The intro looks like it was hacked together hastily. I'd like to rewrite it, so it explains: *what "damage" is getting repaired *why it's important to do the repairs (like what would happen if they didn't fix it) *explanations of the repair process

I mean, what's up? Does a UV photon enter the gene or chromosome and knock a strand of DNA out of whack? How is this a problem? Can't the cell keep running with a broken strand? Will it turn cancerous? The 500,000 figure sounds scary, but what's the upshot for human health? Is it like a stuck zipper?

Sorry, but the intro raises so many questions that I didn't even want to read the rest of the article. Featured or not, it still needs LOTS of work. --Uncle Ed 20:10, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I am flabbergasted. What is the purpose of the toxic attitude? The intro is a gentle yet concise summary of the article. Obviously Ed cannot confirm this because he did not bother reading the article - instead he proposes rewriting an introduction for something he has not even read!. Check it out for yourselves! prometheus1 12:50, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You've probably noticed that over there on WP:FAC we have a potentially valuable contributor who is about to walk away (one conscientiously suppresses the "I hope") because he can't stand the stupid people who think his work on DNA repair is not instantly worthy of Featured status. I wonder if anything could be done about it. My own inability to do anything about it, which I'm afraid is no surprise, is apparent in the discussion. I suppose any improvement in the situation would be little short of miraculous, though that shouldn't bother you :-) Dandrake 19:49, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)

here is the response from Uncle Ed (can you believe the conceit!)

Anyone who writes phrases like "any of you grand intelligences" is asking for trouble. (It's not enought to be brilliant: a little courtesy and humility are needed, as people CONSTANTLY are reminding ME. "Ed, you're always bragging out how NPOVier than thou you are...") If he's gonna be that much of a pain, I say let him walk. For every prima donna who leaves in wrath, we'll get ten better writers who have no patience for jerks like him. --Uncle Ed 19:59, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Now we are clear as to his intentions - and the basis for his drivel - I mean critique - no, it is just drivel. ;) prometheus1 13:10, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This article is hardly technical at all when compared with some other feature articles like Ackermann function Quantum computer. I have no biology experience and this article was clear and easy to understand. Chubtoad 13:39, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

prometheus1 15:39, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

  • Sadly, I think you began the contempt with your abrasive wording. This situation could have been averted if you hadn't used such sharp words at the beginning, tainting later voters' opinions and comments. I have read the whole argument, and although I think there are one or two cases where things could have gone better, I think you started it by strawmanning, ignoring a user's arguments simply because they are flawed, or worse still, basing your acceptance of a user's vote based on their past performance in article editing. Just because, say, an insane murderer thinks it's wrong to murder yet does it anyway, now it must be right to murder? That seems to be what's happening here. Johnleemk | Talk 15:53, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • People that wish to provide criticisms must be held accountable for those criticisms. One cannot just use statements such as: 'pretentious jargon, poorly written, long and clumsy and incomprehensible', without offering adequate and justifiable explanation. Of course I will pull them up on this sort of nonsense. This is not an arena where people should be allowed to humiliate or allow themselves to be humiliated. This should be a forum of positive interaction, learning and mentoring. prometheus1 16:38, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Obviously, but your rebuttals often were too abrasive. Your tone is extremely authoritative and abrasive, as if you're trying to challenge somebody. Relax. Rejecting an apology and using an article someone else worked on as an excuse to disregard their objection aren't exactly the best ways to win friends, and not only cast a negative aspersion on you, but on the article, because people won't feel like supporting if they see your behaviour. I know that it's not fair, but that's how human pyschology works, though hopefully most people here try to keep it in check. Johnleemk | Talk 09:56, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • If you wish to be viewed as impartial you should consider incorporating into your discussion the causative factors that manifest this abrasion. This article has been exposed to considerable resistance which in the final analysis largely remains unqualified. Consequently the defense of the article transcends the question of the article's validity in the FAC context but is a statement on the politics and culture of the FAC process - which is evidently not conducive towards fostering an atmosphere of knowledge and intelligent discourse. The majority of criticisms have been laced with derogatory tones which is unacceptable. prometheus1 00:24, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Um...from the very start you were abrasive and judgemental in your wording. Perhaps it was unintentional, but it may have clouded other voters' view of the article, by proxy, and certainly doesn't bode well for your own image. The politics and culture of FAC are not intended to create better articles. We're supposed to be judgemental and nitpicky, because "featured articles represent the best of Wikipedia's work". If you want people's constructive criticism for building an excellent article, go to peer review. I don't see any criticism laced with derogatory tones until after you responded to the first criticism, constantly challenging it, not even willing to accept that the objector might have a grain of truth somewhere. Johnleemk | Talk 12:18, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • If you're too busy carrying the firebrand of your predecessors there's lots you won't see. Look, if you have something to say related to the article - read it - then voice your opinion on it specifically citing the section that you think needs improvement - otherwise - this is getting tedious. prometheus1 21:01, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • I've read the discussion in full. I'm not denying that the later objectors were harsh, but your challenging manner of talking hurts your own stance. You effectively closed your ears and ignored objections, based on nitpicked points. Both sides are wrong here. Two wrongs don't make a right. Stop viewing this as a black and white situation. I do have something related to the article to say, as you can see below, so that's a moot point. It may be better if we discussed this on WP:RFC or something, or just drop the issue entirely, because both sides are quite wrong anyway. Johnleemk | Talk 05:15, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Illuminated manuscript

Kind of a self-nom, as I've just done a load of work tidying it up, but I didn't write any of the original content; just thought it was a good article. — OwenBlacker 12:10, Aug 14, 2004 (UTC)


MathCounts

This is a really, really well-written article that covers a lot of information. The information is accurate, since I have been on the MathCounts team before. --Lst27 00:22, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)


René Lévesque

This article is, I believe, an excellent example of thorough, exhaustive information on a public figure. It also features many great, useful images, and also even soundbytes and videos. Furthermore, on the subject of Quebec matters, this politician and his article are some of the most central, making its featuring even more pertinent. This is an article I worked on quite a lot, so I should mark it a self-nomination. --Liberlogos 14:01, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Pantheon, Rome

A well written article about the Pantheon of Rome, has good information in it and some decent pictures. - Ta bu shi da yu 13:16, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Pedro Montanez

Self nomination. I think its good and informative. Besides'Id love to see my photo on wikipedia's cover!!. --Antonio Tyson Martin"

Susan B. Anthony

Excellent article and photo. Well written, informative. -- "Antonio Susan B. Antonio Martin"

Etiquette

This is a remarkable article: concise, well-written, elegant, with a marvelous image. Not mine. - Hydrotaphia 17:01, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

CSS Hunley

Not a very long article, but an interesting one, combining naval warfare and a new section on forensic anthropology, bringing the story of the Hunley up to date, 140 years after it first made history as the first submarine to sink a ship. Nice illustrations to complement the article too. Danny 11:08, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Three of the Hunley's night missions failed against the Union ironclads blockading the harbor. On August 29, 1863 five of a crew of nine were killed during an attempted attack when the skipper accidentally dived with the hatches still open. On October 15, 1863 the Hunley failed to surface during a trial dive, killing its inventor Horace Lawson Hunley and seven other crewmen. In both cases, the Confederate Navy salvaged the vessel and returned it to service.
--John Moser 05:51, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Bricker Amendment

Self-nomination. I noticed this on a list of requested articles and have posted it. This was a huge controversy in the 1950's and comes up still--Google the phrase and see that some people still favor it. PedanticallySpeaking 17:41, Aug 17, 2004 (UTC)


Linux

This article is very well written. --Masterhomer 00:25, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

  • So noted that Mozilla doesn't have anything on competing browsers. I've added a section to the main Mozilla article. - Ta bu shi da yu 11:53, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • As far as I can tell from the article's discussion page, you mainly had a problem with one particularly pedantic user, Centrx. Everyone else, while they may have disagreed, weren't really giving too much grief. Who else was giving problems? - Ta bu shi da yu 12:47, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Is that a "let's you and him fight"? I'm talking about the article's long, long edit history. Also check previous talk archives. You'll see what I mean - the article is a magnet for stupid advocacy - David Gerard 17:01, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Linux users traditionally tend to be more technically advanced that Windows user - facts not in evidence and this is a stereotype in any case
  • Frequently compares Linux to Microsoft's Windows, even when this is not necessary (sounds like advocacy, or just some very defensive people!)
  • Not enough information on valid criticism of Linux, especially on the desktop. Yes, I know that Linux has improved heaps in the past few years, but it's certainly not there yet!
  • Seems to be missing a criticism section. For instance, it doesn't even talk about the criticisms levelled at it by AdTI and Ken Brown, which while stupid (see my article about Ken Brown on Kuro5hin) should still be detailed. IMHO if this was included then it would go a long way to giving the article a more rounded viewpoint.
I'm sure there are more things that could be altered. Please note I'm a Linux fan (I don't run Windows unless I can help it, and I think Linux is the best thing since sliced bread!) but even a Linux fan can wish for a more NPOV article. Besides which, remember the Mindcraft study? This was a positive boon to the Linux community because it showed where Linux was weak, and the kernel developers worked on those areas harder than ever! I think that valid criticism can only but be a good thing for Linux. Anyway, this last bit is just my $0.02. Ta bu shi da yu 12:17, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Exploding whale

This is a self-nomination, but I figure that the whole exploding whale incident was bizarre enough to at least cop a mention on Wikipedia. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:41, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

  • That one stinks. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 15:59, 2004 Aug 12 (UTC)
  • Yow! I see everyone is having a whale of a time making bad jokes about this story. It makes me so sad I want to blubber. - Ta bu shi da yu 10:00, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Well as long as you don't blow your top about it.... Pcb21| Pete 10:13, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
And the Sperm Gray Whale thought, as it lay there;
And wow! Hey! What's this mighty round barrel they are bringing towards me? They are putting it in my stomach so it must be dinner. It needs a big mighty dinnery sounding word like... din... diner... dyna... dynamite! That's it! That's a good name - dynamite! I wonder if it will be friends with me?
(I think this article has trouble being taken seriously) -- Solipsist 16:53, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Why? It's a factual account of the exploding whale, and is encyclodedic. It really did happen, and it's a quite famous event! - Ta bu shi da yu 04:40, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Sorry, not an objection. As to why the article has trouble being taken seriously... who can say, but it is sefl-evident from the comments here. -- Solipsist 18:04, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Double sorry, I should have made clear this was a parody of the actual Adams quote which involves a whale falling from space. See for example half way down this page -- Solipsist 14:32, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Never mind, I should have checked this fact before I entered it in the first place anyway! No harm done. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:38, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • I see this has now been removed from thet article. Please, can whoever added it, please be more careful. Mintguy (T) 15:53, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Yes, I added it. Apologies for that (as I've already said on this page). At least no harm was done. - Ta bu shi da yu 21:21, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • You mean, at least no whales were harmed in the writing of this aricle? Sorry couldn't help myself. - Taxman 14:33, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)

Collapse of the World Trade Center

Partial self-nomination. A clear presentation of the issues, I think. JDG 20:10, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It looks good, but (speaking as a engineer) I'm having trouble visualizing it without diagrams. →Raul654 20:53, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)
Object. Certainly agree with Raul. Begs for several diagrams. Also the article has some dodgy language, such as "World Trade Center 5 suffered a large fire and a partial collapse of its steel structure. This is also an unprecedented event." As almost an entire paragraph. That needs to be fleshed out, especially explaining what was unprecedented about it. A lot of good information though. - Taxman 21:16, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)
It might be difficult to find fair use diagrams, but I'll try. JDG
I added a link to the FEMA/ASCE collapse study. It appears to be an official US Gov. publication, and thus public domain. I haven't sifted through the whole thing yet, but the first chapter has a decent diagram of where the debris fell. -- Cyrius|✎ 14:34, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Thanks Cyrius. I'll check out images from FEMA. I'll withdraw this nomination for now as it will take me some time to adapt the text to whatever diagrams I come up with. JDG 15:55, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Oscar Niemeyer

Duck and Cover (film)

Slavoj Zizek

-This article is very well written. A complex theme, but you get the idea, what it is about--Nerd 10:59, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Comment: It looks like a detailed treatment of the subject, but could use some stylistic work to get to featured status; perhaps try listing on Wikipedia:Peer review. A featured article should also have a less blury photograph -- Infrogmation 15:03, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
It's all about his philosphy, with very little about the guy. Maybe the material should be moved to philosohy of Slavoj Zizek or some such. Otherwise seems like good material. - Taxman 15:11, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)


C-Train

I've been grooming this article for FA status. Please nitpick it so that I know what needs fixing before that point. ;) -- Grunt (talk) 00:08, 2004 Aug 19 (UTC)


Martin Guerre

Self-nomination. I don't know what else to say about this guy, so am hoping for constructive objections. AxelBoldt 11:54, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Heliocentrism

A partial self-nomination, as I've contributed to the article for some time. This treats a fairly controversial subject (as to history, not astronomy!) and has settled down for some time and been through Wikipedia:Peer review. Dandrake 20:39, Aug 27, 2004 (UTC)

Lee Lawrie

I nominate this page, because it seems to be an extremely thorough and comprehensive biography of the subject, without being too long, in addition it is well illustrated. Giano 11:32, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

In Mozilla Firefox, the picture layout is very strange... Neither objection nor support, just comment This has been fixed now. GWO 12:02, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Object, a better lead section and a better picture to text ratio. images needs better captions Support. [[User:Krik|User:Krik/norm]] 10:09, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Object, pending page layout review. Pictures need more careful placement. Support. Denni☯ 16:47, 2004 Aug 27 (UTC)
The work that Lawrie is best known for is that on the Capitol Building in Lincoln, Nebraska, Bertram Goodhue, architect. I am about to add a few pictures of it to the article, thus further complicating the picture layout issues. Please withhold judgemnet until that is delt with. Carptrash 22:53, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC) :


Pedro IV of Portugal, I of Brazil

Clear presentation--Gameiro Pais 02:14, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Empire of Atlantium

A lot of info for a nation that is only an apartment. --Galena 04:11, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

East Timor

Very concise and informative article. 212.113.164.98 04:40, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Egyptian pyramids

Self nomination. It's an important hitherto-overlooked subject, and now that we have permission to use spectacular photos it's a much more widely interesting one too. Even if I do say so myself! --Gene_poole 06:57, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

  1. First, all the photos need source information and copyright tags (its good that we have permission, but we need to know what it is).
  2. There is a lot more to be said about the Egyptian pyramids. E.g. how were they built.
  3. Much of this additional information is at Great Pyramid of Giza, which isn't linked from this article (but could definately use the better photos here) - Great Pyramid of Giza article is actually linked via a redirect from Pyramid of Khufu.
  4. If the article is supposed to be about Egyptian pyramids in general (and I may have got that wrong), it would be better to move many of the lesser pyramids in separate articles and include a list to them at the end of this one (although it would also loose the overview of visual comparisons, so I'm split on this point)
  5. Some will say there are too many pictures on the page, and moving to individual articles would solve this
  6. Wouldn't a better title be 'Egyptian pyramids'.
It might be better to place this article on Wikipedia:Peer review for a while first. Alternatively this could be moved to 'List of Egyptian pryamids', with various bits of merging with Great Pyramid of Giza and maybe rename that article too. This subject will be popular as and when it reaches the front page, so we need to do a bang up job. -- Solipsist 10:47, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I'm still confused as to what this article is trying to be. At the moment it isn't close to describing Egyptian pyramids in general. If it is meant to be a survey/description of the collection of largest pyramids, it should probably skip the 'what are they' section and link to a more complete article on this. Then open with more of a description about the general distribution of pyramids around Egypt (near the Nile? Next to or deliberately separated from towns?)
If it is to be a complete description of pyramids, the 'Pyramid Symbolism' section seems like a poor start. At that point we still don't have much of an idea of what an Egyptian pyramid is - are they mostly solid, where is the burial chamber, a sarchophagus, how many internal passages, what about grave good, is there a front door. The opening phrase on 'descending rays' is misleading - the reason pyramids are the shape they are, is that if you want to build big, it is about the only structure you can build without any knowledge of architecture. -- Solipsist 21:39, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The article intent is fairly clear - to provide an overview of the pyramid building phenomenon in Egypt, and a general description of the major pyramid sites that demonstate the various manifestrations of the phenomenon. Additional detail concerning the siting of pyramids and their interior architecture is certainly a good idea. The solar symbolism of the pyramid shape and "descending rays" is widely accepted. The suggestion that the Egyptians had "no knowledge of architecture", is patent nonsense. Pyramids are extremely sophisticated engineering achievements and they were built by people who knew what they were doing. And what they were doing was dictated primarily by cultural and religious concerns - not engineering limitations. --Gene_poole 13:17, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I'll move discussions of a pyramid's shape over to Talk:Egyptian_pyramids, but you may want to check the etymology of 'architecture' and see when the Greeks invented the arch. The more important problem is the article's structure. If it is trying to both explain what a pyramid is and survey the major Egyptian pyramids, it is not doing either very well at the moment. If the article were expanded to do both justice, it would be too large. Great Pyramid of Giza is closer to giving a good explanation of the 'what' and 'how', and this article is closer to being a good explanation of the 'where' and possibly 'when'. I would suggest, ditching the first three sections (or merge & rename with Great Pyramid of Giza), and expanding a geographical introduction. There is also scope for articles on the individual pyramids (at the moment, this article, Dashur and Bent Pyramid repeat much of the same material). On the whole I would again suggest moving to Wikipedia:Peer review -- Solipsist 08:58, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I agree with Solipsist. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (talk)]] 03:45, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Object - No ==References== section. See Wikipedia:Cite your sources. --mav 03:12, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Mav, it's not 100% necessary to have a references section on every page. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:53, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I must respectfully disagree. If you don't have one, at least cite sources in a footnote-like manner, as with Yesterday (song). It's impossible to write a featured-size article without having at least one or two references — perhaps a book, or a website, or something like that. Johnleemk | Talk 13:23, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The more I think about it, the more I agree with mav's position. A references section should become a requirement for featured articles. It is highly useful, nearly always possible to write up, and increases the credibility of Wikipedia. --Shibboleth 14:40, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Government of France

Self-nomination. I think it's quite complete. David.Monniaux 09:15, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. Note though that this has high potential for POV. David.Monniaux 21:43, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I don't see how, and I'd prefer you didn't show me! Just the facts would be good, and can't be POV. - Taxman 22:59, Aug 30, 2004 (UTC)
Object - No ==References== section. See Wikipedia:Cite your sources. --mav 03:10, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The references are to be found on the official sites of the various cited official bodies. :-) David.Monniaux 21:43, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
That is not helpful. --mav


Portugal

Semi-self-nomination. Gameiro Pais 03:44, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hasso von Manteuffel

Self-nomination, von Manteuffel was one of the most important and talented German Generals of the World War II era. GeneralPatton 21:39, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Object - it is not sectioned (nor should an article this small be), which is a specific requirement set-forth in Wikipedia:What is a featured article. The article itself seems to be way too short for featured status. --mav 03:15, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
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