Self-nomination This is an article about a character from Star Wars and its influence on popular culture. I revised this article using BrianSmithson's draft of the guideline Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction). This article was on peer review for quite some time and the issues raised there have been addressed. It is comprehensive, well-sourced, and one of the few Star Wars articles written in the out-of-universe perspective. I'm sure there are still some wrinkles that need ironing, thanks in advance for your input. Dmoon1 01:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Two minor points:
- Get rid of the ((main)) links; they're not used correctly here, as the sections in this article are not summaries of the linked ones (it's the other way around, if anything). Linking the terms in the text should be sufficient.
- If a separate "References" section is used, every source cited in the footnotes—including all the incidental websites and articles—must be listed there. Kirill Lokshin 01:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Incorporated "Notes" and "Other references" into main Reference section. Dmoon1 03:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Sorry, forgot to mention this in peer review, but I think the article is rather overlinked. Consider going through the article and deciding which terms actually are relevant to the content; remove the rest. For example, in the lead, I don't think there's any need to link to words such as director, post-production, slug, literature, illicit drugs, palace, monastery, slaves, droids, gambling, torture, merchandising, caricature, or satire. Some of these are more borderline than others, but you get the idea. See Wikipedia:Only make links that are relevant to the context for more. — BrianSmithson 03:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, well done! An excellent example of WP:WAF in action, and a great article on its own merits. I'd love to see more articles on fictional characters, locations, devices, etc. looking as good as this article. -- BrianSmithson 16:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. The body of the article is excellent but the lead has some ways to go to meet FA standards. I count the word "character" seven times in the first three paragraphs, which is repetitive to the point of grating. The third paragraph is poorly written, with awkward phrases like "[t]he character has since played an influential role on Western popular culture." However, if the style issues are resolved, this article will be a decent FA candidate. --Alex S 04:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC) P.S. Excellent demonstration of WP:WAF. --Alex S 04:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. I have revised the lead, but it still may not be just right. What do you think? Dmoon1 05:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: The first two images feature Jabba in exactly the same pose. Perhaps changed the 2nd one to one with him and Leia in the golden bikini in it? Or maybe even the scene where he's getting choked, but that might be too much of a spoiler to have an image of. --SeizureDog 16:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- How does this look? Dmoon1 16:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support I couldn't believe I'd support when I first opened the article, but it's very well done IMO! My only question is this: Doesn't Jabba appear, if briefly, at the Boonta Eve Classic in Episode I? Staxringold talkcontribs 23:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for your support. (This scene is discussed in Appearances under the sub-section Star Wars films, BTW.) Dmoon1 04:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support sets the standard that all Star Wars character articles should (and will) follow. Prose seems fine, and the article is well-rounded. — Deckiller 23:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Good article. Cvene64 02:24, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Dmoon1 has taken this from a Star Wars-centric article to one with information that applies to the "real world" in general. His efforts have not been in vain; in my opinion, the article is not only immensely better than it was before, but worthy of FA status. This is the bar for which all Star Wars character articles should aspire. Good work! – Mipadi 15:26, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Various things that could do with being looked at:
- Princess Leia strangles the Hutt to death with her chains shortly before Jabba's sail barge explodes, killing all inside. Does Leia (and Luke?) die too then? (Sorry, I really don't know the slightest thing about Star Wars, which is possibly a good thing in terms of reviewing the article!)
- What is the "Star Wars Databank"? Is it some kind of fictional database featured in the film? Or an official guide written by the creators? Or an unofficial guide? If it isn't wikilinked then it needs an explanation.
- The first paragraph of "concept and creation" would appear to belong in the "characeristics" section. What is being demarked by this change in section headings?
- Relocated Ebert and Casevos quotes to characteristics. Dmoon1 18:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Similarly, "Usage" is a strange section heading. "Usage as a metaphor" or "term" would probably be getting closer (though neither are quite right!)... can it be improved upon?
- I struggled to find an apporpriate sub-heading title earlier and just went with "Usage". I have changed it to "Jabba the Hutt as satire", but that still doesn't sound quite right either. Dmoon1 18:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- How about "Jabba the Hutt as a cultural icon" (or just "as an icon") or "Jabba the Hutt as an archetype" or something like those only more awesome? Luna Santin 09:18, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I've settled on "Jabba the Hutt in mass media" since all of the examples given are derived from works of literature, newspaper, and teleivsion. Dmoon1 02:10, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- According to the IMDB here, Larry Ward (whose bio definitely needs a cleanup by the way; given that this is the actor who voiced the character in question I don't think it's an invalid complaint that that bio needs to be cleaned up before this hits the main page) went uncredited. I don't think this is mentioned in the article anywhere, but I do think it's important enough. Does anybody know why he went uncredited?
- I mentioned that his work went uncredited, but I don't know why this happened. Many actors who were involved in the film were not listed in the credits, if you look here. I'll see if I can't do something about Larry Ward's article. Dmoon1 18:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm still not sure what Hutt would have sounded like. The description of the noise of his voice and the special effects used to produce them is interesting, but there are still some key points I'm left blank on. (1) Did he ever speak in English? (2) When he spoke in his own language, was it in any way comprehensible? (3) Was he subtitled, when speaking in English or indeed his own dialect? Much as I believe in refraining from taking recourse to fair use except where necessary, I also wonder whether a fair use audio clip might be justified. TheGrappler 16:24, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I clarified these points. I don't know what to do about an audio clip. My computer has trouble with .ogg files, which is what Wikipedia uses in its articles. Someone else will have to do this, if you really think it needs doing. Dmoon1 18:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. I don't think it's absolutely necessary by any means, but it's the only failsafe way I could think of that would communicate the sound of his voice! Could you put in a brief, paranthetic explanation in the text of the Jabba article about what the Databank is? Just enough to get across that it's the "official" guide to Star Wars. I think that's an important thing for readers to know.TheGrappler 00:30, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I added a blurb about the Databank. I'll see what I can do about audio. Dmoon1 01:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong Support. Fantastic article, well referenced, well written, covers a broad array of aspects. Well done. ....(Complain)(Let us to it pell-mell) 12:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support -- Very well done. Themillofkeytone 15:43, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support-- I'd say "kudos" in Huttese, but unfortunately, my understanding of fictional languages are nil. Bibliomaniac15 21:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for your support. Dmoon1 02:10, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support I feel it would do the website good in having a wider range of featured articles, as it would attract more users. Kingfisherswift 15:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Can you replace the lead image with Image:JabbaTheHutt.jpg? It's a better picture that shows better his body (at least it's my opinion. CG 20:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think that picture is very representative of Jabba the Hutt as it is from a scene in The Phantom Menace which the character appeared only briefly; the character's part in this film is very minor. Plus, IMHO, Jabba just looks evil in the current image. In the image you have linked, it appears that his eyes are gone and he almost looks like he's smiling. Dmoon1 21:15, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - could the article be more clear upon the fact that the character is first mentioned in ANH and ESB before making the on-screen debut? Also, it would be nice to have pictures of the 1997 and 2004 ANH Jabba to compare to each other (and the 1977 footage). Otherwise, looks good! Thanks, Girolamo Savonarola 12:37, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I clarified that Jabba was first mentioned in A New Hope, but I think there are enough fair use images in the article. Also, adding any more images in general will cause the article to be overcrowded. (There is already a screenshot of the 2004 CGI in the "Characteristics" section.) Dmoon1 14:04, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support per nom and per good well constructed article. -- Wikipedical 20:59, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support per nom. Good work, as usual. --Myles Long 21:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for your support! Dmoon1 22:44, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
