Self-nomination, though this article has involved a lot of collaboration. The article presents an interesting story, it's well documented, and it's about a little known episode of the history of the American West. We're approaching the 150th anniversary of the disaster that cost more than 200 lives from the Willie and Martin companies in October 1856 and of the dramatic rescue effort that saved the lives of the other 800 emigrants. There are plans for a PBS documentary about these events. I think this article meets featured article standards. BRMo 01:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I notice that the article is written primarily from a Mormon perspective, and the article relies heavily (entirely?) on sources by Mormon authors. While these sources are surely valuable, there needs to be more info in the article from outside accounts with less of a cultural attachment to the subject. Andrew Levine 16:10, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- One of the cited authors, Wallace Stegner, was not a Latter-day Saint, though he was familiar with Mormon history and culture from living in Utah during his youth. He's the only non-LDS historian I know of who has researched and written on the history of the handcart companies. We can certainly add some citations to his work, though Stegner's perspective didn't seem substantially different from that of the LDS authors. BRMo 17:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I believe that Arthur King Peters is also not a member and is also one of the named references in the article. --Trödel 19:14, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I've expanded the section on responsibility for the tragedy, trying to reflect viewpoints that are critical of the planning and decision-making by the church's leaders, as well as viewpoints that are less critical. Stegner is now cited several times. BRMo 03:11, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment again: It almost has my support now, there are just a few things I think should be made clearer.
- "their inclination toward social and political unity" What kind of social/political unity?
- "Many a father pulled his cart, with his little children on it, until the day preceding his death." are Hafen/Hafen quoting a pioneer, or a church elder, or are these the Hafens' own words? Andrew Levine 16:31, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for your edits and comments. I've clarified that Hafen/Hafen were quoting pioneer John Chislett and have expanded the section on hostility and persecution to identify some of the Mormon beliefs and practices that aroused suspicion. — BRMo 21:25, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comments: These are only my opinions, and may be completely wrong.
"...walking from Iowa or Nebraska to Utah."
- Perhaps it would look better if we stated that they were traveling to Salt Lake City, Utah, rather than just Utah. Also, were there specific cities in Iowa and Nebraska they departed from?
"...primarily due to their practice of withdrawing from secular society and gathering in specific locales to practice their unorthodox religious beliefs."
You might need to add a source for this being the primary reason. Also, I'm not sure the word "unorthodox" is the best choice: to me, it has a negative connotation, implying that something is incorrect.
--Lethargy 19:50, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for these comments. The article later provides the information that 7 of the companies left from Iowa City, Iowa and the last 3 companies left from Florence, Nebraska (now part of Omaha), and that the desination for all was Salt Lake City. To avoid cluttering the lead with too much information, I'm leaving it as "Iowa or Nebraska to Utah"; I might have added the cities if they had departed from only one place. But this is an editing decision—I don't own the article, so if you strongly prefer to include the names of the cities, feel free to make the changes. Regarding "unorthodox," I've changed it to "peculiar" (Latter-day Saints commonly refer to themselves as "a peculiar people"), and I've added a reference to O'Dea as a source. BRMo 00:18, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry I haven't come back with a support vote yet, but I'll try to finish looking over the article later today or tomorrow. --Lethargy 20:16, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This may be too nitpicky, but can sources be added for "most of these emigrants paid their own expenses" and "Emigrants would depart from an English port (generally Liverpool)"? Also, something about the sentence "The companies also appointed sub-captains, who generally also were returning missionaries, for each 100 emigrants." doesn't flow well, but I can't think of a perfect replacement off the top of my head. --Lethargy 03:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I've added the references that you've suggested and re-written the sentence on "sub-captains." — BRMo 03:34, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I am very close to supporting this, but there are a few remaining issues:
A few citations are still needed (I tagged them in the article)I don't think this article would be comprehensive without the account of the three young men who helped the Martin (or Willie?) handcart company cross the sweetwater river. It is a very popular story among Latter-day Saints, and IIRC it was in the article but had to be removed for copyright reasons.
- We could expand this a little bit, but it is good for now. --Lethargy 20:53, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There are three sentences which mention problems with the handcarts, but don't specifically mention what was the matter: "When the companies reached Florence, additional time was lost making repairs to the poorly built carts." "The construction of the handcarts was modified to strengthen them and reduce repairs. The handcarts would now be regularly greased." Can you dig anything up about why the repairs had to be made and the design improved?
--Lethargy 04:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - I feel my concerns have been addressed. This is a great article. --Lethargy 02:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support now. Andrew Levine 16:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Article well-written, abundantly illustrated and especially well referenced. A+! — Frecklefoot | Talk 17:09, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Sections don't conform to WP:GTL, and section headings need attention per WP:MOS. Notables are not sourced. It would be good to get a copy editor to work on the lead, and shorten some of the sentences. There are random prose and puncutation problems throughout, example, "Across Iowa they followed an existing road about 275 miles (443 km) to Council Bluffs a route that is close to current U.S. Route 6." Sandy 20:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for your comments. I've organized the sections and section headings with attention to WP:GTL and WP:MOS, added sources for notables, and gone through the entire text giving it another copy edit. I've shortened several of the longer sentences and hopefully fixed most of the other problems. Of course, assistance from other copy editors is always welcome. — BRMo 03:41, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Support. Sandy 22:06, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]