- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 20 May 2023 [1].
- Nominator(s): Ippantekina (talk) 06:37, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This article is about a 2008 song by Taylor Swift when she was 18. After revamping the article I believe it now is up to FA standards. I'm open to any and all suggestions to improve it further. Thanks, Ippantekina (talk) 06:37, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- "a narrator is heartbroken on realizing the boyfriend" => "a narrator is heartbroken on realizing that her boyfriend"
- " what they deemed [...] but some deemed" - suggest using a different word in place of one of those
- "To this extent," - not sure this is the correct wording. I'd be tempted to remove these words and just join this sentence onto the previous one
- "part of the lyrics to "White Horse" dated in December 2006" => "part of the lyrics to "White Horse" dated from December 2006"
- "Songwriting for "White Horse" completed weeks after" => "Songwriting for "White Horse" was completed weeks after"
- "all the fantasies she had about a boy turned out completely falsified" => "all the fantasies she had about a boy turned out to be completely false"
- "the former [...] and the latter" - there's nothing in the preceding clause to indicate what "the former" and "the latter" are
- "Some lyrical motives" => "Some lyrical motifs"
- "express the narrator's lost of innocence" => "express the narrator's loss of innocence"
- "she donned a white evening gown as sang" => "she donned a white evening gown as she sang"
- "sitting on floral-patterned couch" => "sitting on a floral-patterned couch"
-- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:30, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks ChrisTheDude, I've addressed your comments accordingly. Let me know if the article needs further work! Cheers, Ippantekina (talk) 09:33, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- "Music critics lauded "White Horse" for what they deemed a somber production and a portrayal of universal feelings from heartbreak, but some found the lyrics." - think some words have gone AWOL there..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:58, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Whoops.. added the missing word. Ippantekina (talk) 09:05, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- "An understated country pop ballad, it is driven by a finger-picked guitar and includes piano and cello accents." - would replace "it" with "the song"
- "In reviews of Fearless, music critics lauded "White Horse" for what they deemed a somber production and lyrics" Can cut "In reviews of Fearless" as that's implied. I think you could rephrase to "Music critics lauded [...] for its somber production and lyrics[...]"
- "but some deemed the lyrical imagery uncreative." - I'd just simplify to some deemed the lyrics uncreative.
- "In the United States, the single peaked at number 13 on the Billboard Hot 100 and number two on the Hot Country Songs chart, and was certified double platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). " - don't need the comma before "and was certified"
- ", and received certifications in the first two countries." - don't need the comma
- "the track was produced by Swift and Chapman, and mixed by Justin Niebank at Blackbird Studios in Nashville.[6]" - don't need the comma
- "According to a note published in the liner notes of Swift's 2019 album Lover, part of the lyrics to "White Horse" dated in December 2006.[7] " - I think you want "date to" not "dated in"
- "co-writer Liz Rose helped her complete the song in nearly 45 minutes.[8]" - nearly isn't the right adverb and I don't think it's necessary, you can just say in 45 minutes or less than 45 minutes
- "Swift said she was inspired to write "White Horse" by the moment she realized all the fantasies she had about a boy turned out completely falsified" - should be "false", not falsified
- "The subject" - I think you need to mention that he's anonymous somewhere
- "Whereas both "Love Story" and "White Horse" feature prominent fairy-tale lyrical imagery, Swift said it was important to regard fairy tales with "both sides": the former represented her optimistic and idealistic viewpoint on romance, and the latter her disillusionment with the said notion.[13]" - should be a semi-colon not a colon
- "Swift intended to leave "White Horse" out of Fearless " - "leave off" works better than "leave out of"
- "She changed the decision when the producers of Grey's Anatomy wanted to feature the song in the series.[14]" - I think it's worth a brief mention of which season and which year
- ",[39] and peaked at number 111 on the Billboard Global 200.[40]" - don't need the comma
- ", and instead express the narrator's lost of innocence from a more reflective point-of-view.[49]" - don't need the comma
- "the latter depicts a girl whom someone was unfaithful with" - I'd move "with" to before "whom"
- I'd keep it as it is currently to keep the parallel between "unfaithful to" and "unfaithful with"
- ", on CMT,[78] and was the first video to debut at number one on the network's weekly countdown.[79][80]" - don't need any of these commas
- The first comma is after a date. The second one's done.
- "she donned a white evening gown as sang the song sitting on floral-patterned couch.[81]" - typo? Supposed to say "and sang" I think? If so cut out "the song"
- ",[87] and on a November 2010 episode of Dancing with the Stars.[88]" - no comma
- This comma is after a date.
Mostly ready on prose. Most of my comments are minor points from a first pass. ceranthor 02:36, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Hello @Ceranthor:, thanks for the review. Per MOS:COMMA I added the commas after every date i.e. "on March 5, 2009," "on February 7, 2009, on CMT". In other instances i.e. "peaked at number 13 [...] and number two [...], and was certified" I think the comma adds clarity to separate the items, considering "peaked at [...] and [...] and was certified" is rather clunky. Not sure if this violates any conventions? Ippantekina (talk) 14:28, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi @Ippantekina: Not sure I follow - I don't remember making any comments about commas after dates. For the latter point, commas are not used if not a compound sentence, ie. for one of the examples I cited above, "the track was produced by Swift and Chapman, and mixed by Justin Niebank at Blackbird Studios in Nashville," the comma is incorrectly placed because "and mixed" uses the same subject. The comma would be appropriate and necessary if the sentence read "the track was produced by Swift and Chapman, and it was mixed by Justin Niebank at Blackbird Studios in Nashville." Does that help to clarify? Please let me know if not. ceranthor 15:25, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes it does. Other than that I pointed out two instances where the comma is after the date. I'll address the rest soon, Ippantekina (talk) 01:53, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Ceranthor: I've addressed your comments accordingly. Let me know if the article needs further work :) Thanks much, Ippantekina (talk) 09:32, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Ceranthor: nudge-- Ippantekina (talk) 04:25, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Support on prose. ceranthor 02:26, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support from Unlimitedlead[edit]
Just came back from the Eras Tour; it was heavenly! Comments to follow. Unlimitedlead (talk) 18:17, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Why do the lead and the body not mention when the music video was released?
- "The end product is a collection of songs..." Shouldn't the "is" be "was"?
- This has not been fixed. Unlimitedlead (talk) 10:46, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Ippantekina: ? Unlimitedlead (talk) 20:30, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Unlimitedlead Whoops, missed this one. I think "is" is ok because the album is, well, now still a collection of songs of that description. Ippantekina (talk) 05:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I would refer to Char Carlson as an audio engineer, not just as an engineer.
- "Swift recalled that at a meeting set up by her agency with executive producers Shonda Rhimes and Betsy Beers..." I would say "the show's executive producers" to avoid confusion with the producers of the song.
- "...she had hoped" -> "...she had hoped for"?
- "...worthy;[54][55] "This is a..." Why do you use a semicolon here when you previously used colons?
- Why does note a not end in punctuation?
- Yes!! Mentions of the Eras Tour! Very nicely done; it is encouraging to see that these articles are being punctually updated.
That is all from me! Unlimitedlead (talk) 01:12, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Ippantekina Sorry to bother, but have you seen mine and Heartfox's comments yet? Unlimitedlead (talk) 21:52, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi yes Unlimitedlead, apologies for my delayed response and thank you for the review. I have addressed your concerns accordingly. You can have a read-through again and let me know if I've missed out anything :) Ippantekina (talk) 07:32, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I will be glad to support this nomination. Unlimitedlead (talk) 12:05, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Source review[edit]
- There is an inconsistent title capitalization style
- Davies url-status=live
- What makes SheKnows a high-quality source?
Heartfox (talk) 23:24, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi Heartfox I've amended the ref titles accordingly. Regarding SheKnows it is not the best source for more serious critical analyses/reviews, but I think it should suffice in this context (reviewing a concert). As it is part of Penske Media Corporation (who publishes Rolling Stone and Variety) it definitely is an acceptable source. Ippantekina (talk) 07:36, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I would suggest citing the Edmonton Journal instead, which also notes she performed "White Horse" during the Red Tour. SheKnows wasn't part of PMC until 2018, and not all PMC publications are reliable for everything. For example, at WP:RSPSS there is a consensus that Rolling Stone is unreliable for political coverage. Heartfox (talk) 16:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the save! I've added the Edmonton source accordingly :) Ippantekina (talk) 04:13, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Pass. Heartfox (talk) 01:28, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I have a comment on the structure of the "Critical reception" section. It seems like the second paragraph is focused on the reviews regarding the rerecording. The last sentence is on ranking the original in lists so it does not really fit this paragraph.
- Hi, I structured the section like this: first para-positive contemporary reviews, second para-positive retrospective reviews, third para-negative reviews. Hope this makes sense!
- I am still unsure about the placement of the last sentence, but I do understand your point. Thank you for the explanation. Aoba47 (talk) 15:41, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Steve Blackmon should be mentioned in the prose. He is currently only mentioned in the "Personnel" section. The same comment applies for Jonathan Yudkin so I would double-check that all the personal are mentioned in the prose as well as the separate section.
I believe that is everything from me. I hope this review was helpful, and best of luck with the FAC. Aoba47 (talk) 00:05, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Hey Aoba47, thanks for your comments. I well noted them but will be delayed in my response. Please wait for a few days and I'll get back to you. Cheers, Ippantekina (talk) 10:01, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- No worries. Take as much time as you need. Aoba47 (talk) 10:05, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Aoba47 thank you again for taking time reviewing this article. I have addressed your comments accordingly :) Ippantekina (talk) 14:38, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I am glad that I could help! Great work with the article, and I support this FAC for promotion. I do have a soft spot for this song so it is nice to see how much work you have put into this article. I hope you are doing well and have a great week! Aoba47 (talk) 15:41, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Media review - pass[edit]
- Is there any direct source link for File:Taylor Swift - White Horse.png? It only appears on fan-editable websites like Genius and RateYourMusic for me, which is a bit unusual.
- Pass for media review. The Colletti image was apparently verified to be licensed under the stated license during the upload, so the dead link is not an issue for me unless someone else raises it.--NØ 10:58, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the media review, MaranoFan! I was struggling with finding an appropriate archiveurl but since the file was transferred to Commons with a bot, I believe it should be fine. Unless an administrator or FAC coordinator has issue with that, I might as well remove it upon request. Cheers, Ippantekina (talk) 13:16, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- In "References" most article titles are in title case, with the odd one in sentence case. Could they be standardised. (How they appear in the original work is irrelevant.) Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:06, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- If it's reference #12 that we're talking about then it's done. Cheers, Ippantekina (talk) 05:46, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
