The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 4:15, 28 October 2023 (UTC) [1].

Jefferson Davis[edit]

Notified: Omnedon, WikiProject Military history, WikiProject Military history, WikiProject U.S. Congress, WikiProject Biography/Politics and government, WikiProject Kentucky, WikiProject Mississippi, talk page notice 2022-09-24

I am nominating this featured article for review because it has been noticed for about a month with no changes. The sourcing has quite a bit of problems listed here. --Guerillero Parlez Moi 13:11, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lost Cause propaganda whispers regularly throughout the text. I believe it would require a full rewrite to replace the psudohistory with the current scholarly consensus. --Guerillero Parlez Moi 13:35, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've reviewed on talk. Once the last few straggling comments are worked through, I'll be comfortable with the content here and I am comfortable with the sourcing used. It's a bit longer than ideal, but I'm too much of a nerd in this topic area to be good at suggesting things to pare down; I routinely read 500-600 page books on the Civil War for fun. Hog Farm Talk 00:47, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Hog Farm. I appreciate your review. The care for Civil War articles is clear, as is your patience for editors who may be less expert. I think the issues you mentioned have now been addressed. And, I'm glad you are okay with the content. Wtfiv (talk) 18:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I guess I'll make it clearer that I'm ready to close without FARC as well. The length isn't ideal, though, but I'm not sure what the best way to fix that would be. Hog Farm Talk 16:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
My concerns have all been addressed here. Thanks for you hard work on this, Wtfiv. Hog Farm Talk 19:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I read through the article and, after some minor copyediting, I think this is ready for a keep. Z1720 (talk) 16:42, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

SG review

I am going to stop for now, as there are still copyedit needs. Also, as an example of how to cut down the excessive prose size, I offer this overly detailed paragraph:

The paragraph is a sample of wordiness that can be trimmed, and I suggest checking throughout for similar. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:59, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

NOT Addressed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:31, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article can easily be cut to under 10,000 words of readable prose. There is excess detail on the history of the Civil War everywhere one looks, and as but one sample, trimming off-topic detail from this one sample para cuts it almost in half. Hurricane Plantation (which belonged to Jefferson's brother) has its own article and need not be explored here, and BTW, if his brother retained the title to the property, he did not "give" it to him. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:54, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Current (97 words) Proposed (53 words)
When Davis returned to Mississippi he decided to become a planter.[37] His brother Joseph was successfully converting his large holdings at Davis Bend, about 15 miles (24 km) south of Vicksburg, Mississippi, into Hurricane Plantation, which would eventually have 1,700 acres (690 ha) of cultivated fields and over 300 slaves.[38] He gave Davis 800 acres (320 ha) of his land to start a plantation at Davis Bend, though Joseph retained the title to the property. He also loaned Davis the money to buy ten slaves to clear and cultivate the land, which Jefferson would name Brierfield Plantation. Davis returned to Mississippi and become a planter. His brother Joseph provided him 800 acres (320 ha) of land from the large holdings he was converting into Hurricane Plantation at Davis Bend. Joseph retained the title to the property, which Jefferson named Brierfield Plantation, and also loaned Davis the money to buy ten slaves.

This article has actually grown in size during its FAR; it does not need to be over 10,000 words, and a second pass to eliminate fluff should be undertaken. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:54, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • See talk
Wtfiv (talk) 19:26, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Opportunities to trim verbosity remain. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:51, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My personal opinion is that Wtfiv, Hog Farm, et al. transformed the article into a piece of high-quality scholarship. We should keep the star based on the research done. --Guerillero Parlez Moi 20:36, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Random samples only to illustrate copyedit and prose tightening needs (not comprehensive):

  1. . This section has four paragraphs; three of them have topic sentences starting with the time period, and giving the reader (who may want to scan for topic sentences) no idea what the paragraph is about.
  2. Refused ... refused ... consecutive sentences.
  3. "had dropped its case"?
  4. Why do we care about the Peabody Hotel enough to mention it twice, much less at all?
  5. any work
  6. Why do we have to mention Bragg here?
  7. Declining because of insufficient salary is implied, redundant.

In general, just because a source says something, we don't have to include it (verbosity, prose tightening).

May 8 version, 169 words Suggestions, 141 words (16% reduction)
After his release from prison, Davis faced continued financial pressures, but he refused to accept any work that he perceived as diminishing his status as a former U.S. Senator and Confederate President.[1] He refused a position as head of Randolph–Macon College in Virginia because he was still under indictment and did not want to damage its reputation.[2] In the summer of 1869, he traveled to Britain and France looking for business opportunities, but failed to find any.[3] After the federal government had dropped its case against Davis,[4] he returned to the United States in October 1870 to become president of the Carolina Life Insurance Company of Memphis, Tennessee. He left his family in England because he was not financially stable. Davis moved into the Peabody Hotel and committed himself to work, hiring former friends such as Braxton Bragg to serve as agents. Soon after his return, he was offered the top post at the University of the South in Sewanee, Tennessee, but he declined because of the insufficient salary.[5] Despite his financial situation, after his prison release, Davis refused work that he perceived as diminishing his status as a former senator and president.[1] He turned down a position as head of Randolph–Macon College in Virginia because he did not want to damage the school's reputation while he was under indictment.[2] In the summer of 1869, he traveled to Britain and France seeking business opportunities, but failed to find any.[3] After the federal government dropped its case against him,[4] Davis returned to the U.S. in October 1870 to become president of the Carolina Life Insurance Company in Tennessee. Leaving his family in England, he lived in a hotel and committed himself to work, hiring former friends to serve as agents. Shortly afterwards, he was offered the top post at the University of the South, which he declined because of the salary.[5]
  1. This paragraph starts with him going back to Europe for his family, but what is the para about (much more).
  2. Why do we need to know he was there when he found out his brother died; the date of his brother's death is later mentioned in the same section, where the relevance is established.
  3. Why do we need to know they stayed at the same hotel or eventually rented a house; this is all trivia.
  4. The by-date, by-date, by-date recounting in this section is reminiscent of proseline, but it's actually probably coming from a desire to include every detail, although some of this detail is not important to a broad biography.
  5. One of the sentence here is much too long, what Tony1 called "a snake".
  6. <public> eulogy, implied in rest of sentence, redundant
  7. merged the company with another firm redundant (what else do you merge a company with)?
May 8 version, 209 words Suggestions, 162 words (22% reduction)
Davis went back to England to get his family in late summer of 1870. While there, he learned that his brother Joseph had died.[6] When they returned, they first stayed at the Peabody Hotel, but eventually rented a house. When Robert E. Lee died in 1870, Davis delivered a public eulogy at the Lee Monument Association held in Richmond on November 3, emphasizing Lee's character and avoiding politics.[7] He received other invitations. He declined most, but he gave the commencement speech at the University of the South in 1871[8] and a speech to the Virginia Historical Society at White Sulphur Springs declaring that the South had been cheated, and would not have surrendered if they had known what to expect from Reconstruction,[8] particularly the changed status of freed African Americans.[9] After the Panic of 1873 severely affected the Carolina Life Company, Davis resigned in August 1873 when the directors merged the company with another firm over his objections.[10] Davis went back to England in January 1874 looking to convince an English insurance company to open a branch in the American South, but heard that animosity toward him in the North was too much of a liability. He also explored other possibilities of employment in France, but none worked out.[11]


After he retrieved his family from England in 1870, Davis received invitations to speak.[6] He avoided politics in his 1870 eulogy to Robert E. Lee at the Lee Monument Association in Richmond, emphasizing Lee's character instead.[7] He declined most opportunities, but gave the 1871 commencement speech at the University of the South.[8] He declared in a speech to the Virginia Historical Society that the South had been cheated, and would not have surrendered if they had known what to expect from Reconstruction,[8] particularly the changed status of freed African Americans.[9] After the Panic of 1873 severely affected the Carolina Life Company, Davis resigned in August 1873 when the directors merged the company over his objections.[10] He returned to England in 1874 looking to convince an English insurance company to open a branch in the American South, but heard that animosity toward him in the North was too much of a liability. He explored other employment possibilities in France, but none worked out.[11]
Sources

References

  1. ^ a b Collins 2005, p. 29.
  2. ^ a b Cooper 2000, p. 586.
  3. ^ a b Eaton 1977, p. 263.
  4. ^ a b Davis 1991, p. 663.
  5. ^ a b Cooper 2000, pp. 584–589.
  6. ^ a b Davis 1991, p. 665.
  7. ^ a b Cooper 2000, p. 216.
  8. ^ a b c d Collins 2005, p. 21.
  9. ^ a b Davis 1991, p. 667.
  10. ^ a b Cooper 2000, pp. 594–596.
  11. ^ a b Cooper 2000, pp. 559–600.

I have pointedly chosen non-controversial (I hope) and non-political sections for illustrating that prose can be tightened. I don't expect my examples to be followed too closely, as I know my prose is less than optimal; these are for illustration purposes only. The article does not need to be as wordy as it is, a copyedit and fine-tuning is still needed and verbosity can be cut down. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:41, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No progress; copyedit still needed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:26, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think I'll have some time to look at this at the end of next week. Hog Farm Talk 15:44, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Slowly going through trying to trim, although I've run into a query for Wtfiv Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/Jefferson Davis/archive1#Surrender of Black Hawk? on talk. On another note, I'm personally inclined to trim some of the details about his; for instance, I don't know that letting the readers know that Varina Anne died single at age 34 is necessarily the best use of our limited word count available. Hog Farm Talk 00:10, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

that sounds reasonable, HF -- Guerillero Parlez Moi 19:07, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]


HF's edits popped on my watchlist, so I skipped down ahead of where he has worked to see if anything has changed in the month since I last visited (it doesn't seem that anyone else has taken this on); one can still view any section (I didn't look at the top where HF is working) and find excess verbosity. Samples:
Author: the entire paragraph about the Southern Historical Society meanders and has repetitive verbosity. We start by saying he was invited to join, then a lengthy description of what it is (it has its own article), and then we say he joined. What's wrong with "in the 1870s, Davis became a life-time member" instead of saying that twice?
Paragraph edited and here to address point. Wtfiv (talk) 17:52, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Death

June 11, 147 words Suggestions, 128 words (14% reduction)
In November 1889, Davis left Beauvoir and embarked on a steamboat in New Orleans in a cold rain to visit his Brierfield plantation. He fell ill during the trip, but refused to send for a doctor. An employee at Brierfield telegrammed Varina, who took a northbound steamer from New Orleans and transferred to his vessel mid-river. He finally got medical care and was diagnosed with acute bronchitis complicated by malaria.[1] When he returned to New Orleans, Davis's doctor Stanford E. Chaille pronounced him too ill to travel and he was taken to the home of Charles Erasmus Fenner, the son-in-law of his friend J. M. Payne. Davis remained bedridden but stable for the next two weeks. He took a turn for the worse in early December, and died at 12:45 a.m. on Friday, December 6, 1889, in the presence of several friends and holding Varina's hand.[2] In November 1889, Davis embarked on a steamboat in New Orleans in a cold rain, intending to visit his Brierfield plantation. He fell ill during the trip, but refused to send for a doctor, and an employee telegrammed Varina, who took a steamer to meet his vessel. Davis was diagnosed with acute bronchitis complicated by malaria.[1] When he returned to New Orleans, Davis's doctor Stanford E. Chaille pronounced him too ill to travel. He was taken to the home of Charles Erasmus Fenner, the son-in-law of his friend J. M. Payne, where he was bedridden but stable for two weeks. He took a turn for the worse and died at 12:45 a.m. on Friday, December 6, 1889, in the presence of several friends and holding Varina's hand.[2]
suggested paragraph implemented . Wtfiv (talk) 18:11, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sources

References

  1. ^ a b Collins 2005, pp. 50–51.
  2. ^ a b Cooper 2000, pp. 652–654.


A thorough independent copyedit is needed; glad to see HF is taking it on, but it would be really good to get even more eyes on this and Andrew Jackson so all the trimming isn't left to one editor. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:02, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Issue created when editor inserted image of statue with grafitti to reflect current legacy. Gravesite statue of Davis removed to address concern. Wtfiv (talk) 18:23, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Writings:

Writings is bibliography of Davis work: 4 books and five articles, an autobiographical fragment, and collected writings. Links are provided for readers' convenience. External links is collection of internet sites provided by editors, some having have bits and pieces of Davis's writing. Wtfiv (talk) 02:41, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It should be chronological. small change to collection to reflect this.
OCLC's added. Wtfiv (talk) 03:08, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
edit error...corrected. Wtfiv (talk) 03:08, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This was due to citebot repeatedly putting the author back in. I think because this one article also has a jstor number. (It's the only one). Added blank last= and first=, which will hopefully address the problem. Diff here. Wtfiv (talk) 00:42, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This bundled all the externals together, moved link to Rice sit where mentioned in Bibliography of Davis's writings. See [2] Wtfiv (talk) 03:25, 12 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wtfiv is actively at work here, and the length has been trimmed significantly. Hog Farm Talk 19:40, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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