< November 1	November 3 >

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Magog the Ogre (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Image of a living person claimed as fair use, fails WP:NFCC. We already have a free image of Daeg at File:Faerch, Daeg (2007).jpg. CyberGhostface (talk) 03:21, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Low-res crop of File:Jacob Riis portrait.jpg. Kelly ^hi! 01:15, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned low-res map. Kelly ^hi! 01:56, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nuke it, per nom. SchuminWeb (Talk) 02:25, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted as F7 by Magog the Ogre (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 04:02, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The file has a non-free copyright tag but should be replaced by a free file namely File:Raspberry Pi board at TransferSummit 2011 cropped.jpg Thanks! Alex Douglas (talk) 01:58, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Because of the viewpoint, this image shows some components more clearly than File:Raspberry Pi board at TransferSummit 2011 cropped.jpg. There's probably an alternative free equivalent which would be better. -- Trevj (talk) 11:28, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: No Consensus. -FASTILY ^(TALK) 08:58, 24 November 2011 (UTC) ~~The result of the discussion was: withdrawn. Now on Commons as File:ATSF El Capitan drumheads.png. SchuminWeb (Talk) 18:42, 5 November 2011 (UTC)~~[reply]

I'm reopening this discussion, as the image was not eligible for F8, because not all versions were moved to Commons. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:55, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fails WP:NFCC#8. Not discussed in the article. SchuminWeb (Talk) 02:24, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep The relevance and function of railroad named train logos and "drumheads" are self explanatory as identifiers (as noted in the illustration's caption " 'Drumhead' logos such as these three often adorned the ends of observation cars on El Capitan") and thus do not need to be additionally "discussed in the article" to be relevant and encyclopedic. (I suspect that if Drumbhead art were to be "discussed in the article" then the proposing editor would use his other favorite "Catch 22" reason for not using the images in that he would claim they are "not needed" because they could be "adequately described in the text".) These drumhead illustrations have been usefully in place for six years and have a complete and detailed rationale for why they are used appropriately in this article. This file does not fail any of the NFCC tests, and most especially not WP:NFCC#8. Centpacrr (talk) 02:58, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, we are not discussing me - we are discussing the content. Please stay on topic and keep your opinions about me to yourself. Understood?

That said, WP:NFCC#8 requires contextual significance. "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding." There is no significant increase in the understanding of this topic by showing non-free artwork. If it were freely licensed or in the public domain, that's a different story, and those drumheads that are all text were moved to Commons as ineligible for copyright. This isn't simple enough to be ineligible, and there is no evidence that copyright has lapsed on these. Unless there is documented evidence that this is definitely free, we have to treat it as non-free content. And a canned caption doesn't cut it for WP:NFCC#8. They are being used decoratively, which is fine for free content, but not for non-free. SchuminWeb (Talk) 15:57, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Again my comments are not about "you", but about your employment of both a pattern of dubious shortcuts (i.e. unilaterally removing images from articles and then claiming they should be administratively deleted without an FFD discussion because they are "orphaned"), as well as providing alternating, self contradictory reasons when attempting to delete images, i.e. either claiming they should be removed because they are "not discussed in the article", or if they are discussed in an article you then give as the the reason to be removed an "adequate textual description" of what the image illustrates to make the image "unnecessary" to illustrate the object, event, or point. Your apparent view of WP usage of "non free" content seems to be so narrow that if it were to be accepted by the community (which there is no evidence that it has been) it would be grounds to eliminate every even potentially "non-free" image file from WP forever. The contention here that "...there is no significant increase in the understanding of this topic" by showing these drumheads is apparently your personal view on the matter, but that's also all it is, just your personal view. No editor is free to unilaterally impose an editorial judgment if it is objected to by others in which case you need to allow it to be tested by seeking the consensus of the community to either support or reject it.

These three "drumheads" were uploaded to WP by another editor in 2005 and have been in use for six years without previous complaint. As the reason you have given to remove them from the "El Capitan" article is that they are not "discussed in the article" (even though their purpose is obvious and is also included in the caption), to cure that supposed deficiency I have added a two sentence reference to them (and what are) to the article. I do not expect to see, however, that you will then use that addition to the context as an excuse to remove them again because you consider what I have added to be an "adequate textual description" that somehow renders the illustrations superfluous. You really can't have it both ways. Centpacrr (talk) 19:24, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just because no one realized that they shouldn't have been there six years ago doesn't mean it's too late to correct the mistake. Your attempt to give contextual significance to the photos is really weak, and also lacks a source. SchuminWeb (Talk) 04:43, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is that really the best you can come up with? To assuage your "concern" about sourcing, however, I have added not one or two but three references (including one from one of my own four published books on North American railroad history) to support the description of "drumhead" signs as used by the Santa Fe on this train (and most other pre-Amtrak era named trains as well). What you mean by "really weak" puzzles me as all that is needed and appropriate is a simple description of what a named train "drumhead" sign is and a brief explanation of its function which is exactly what I added. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for these images being on WP for six years without complaint, this could (and I think does) actually mean that the WP community does not view them as being "a mistake" but instead accepts and embraces the use of the three illustrations as being completely appropriate, justified, and fully supported by the extensive rationale on the file's host page. That seems to be a much more likely and reasoned explanation for their longevity. However all that is really a moot point in this particular discussion as the reason you give above for nominating these images for deletion is that they are "not discussed in the article", a purported deficiency which has been fully cured by the addition to the article of such a contextual discussion with sources. Centpacrr (talk) 05:14, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is specifically the third drumhead, with the illustration on it. The other two are PD-text as being too simple to be eligible for copyright. If you would like, we can agree to remove the third drumhead from the illustration (as that is the only one of the three that is subject to copyright), and then I'll withdraw my FFD and move the remaining two drumheads to Commons as free content. What do you think? SchuminWeb (Talk) 19:39, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand it the only portion of this 360x121px image file with which you now seem to have any issue at all is a roughly a 70x70px (less than one sq in at 72dpi) portion (about 12% of the overall image file) of just one of the three drumheads. That being the case, I really don't see any reason to eliminate this file as this portion of the image is so small and of such low resolution as to be completely valueless for commercial reproduction or exploitation. The image also fully complies with both the letter and the spirit of all the fair use provisions of 17 U.S.C. §107 and WP:NFCC. Centpacrr (talk) 20:01, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: This "withdrawl" and "closure" has been done improperly and is deceptive as the deletion proposer (who also closed this as "withdrawn") nonetheless then deleted the original file claiming that he had moved it to Commons. The file that he uploaded there, however, was not the original file but a significantly altered one in which he removed part of its content. In effect the proposer thus unilaterally deleted a file without achieving any consensus of the community to do so in apparent violation of WP policy. Centpacrr (talk) 23:51, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I've reopened the discussion (see my comments above), as this was not technically F8. Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:55, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Still delete it, however, since the third drumhead is not discussed anywhere, and that's the non-free element that's holding this show up. SchuminWeb (Talk) 13:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Still keep Huh? The third drumhead is discussed extensively above and the reasons to keep all three are given. The only reason that the proposer (the only editor who wants to delete the third drumhead) is that it is "not discussed in the article" which it is (with three sources) so it doesn't fail F8. Centpacrr (talk) 16:47, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Magog the Ogre (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

orphaned user's image; no other encyc use Skier Dude (talk) 05:29, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Magog the Ogre (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

orphaned user's image; no other encyc use Skier Dude (talk) 06:26, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Magog the Ogre (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

orphaned user-drawn image; no encyc value or use Skier Dude (talk) 07:08, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted as F1 by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:04, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OB Brilliantwiki (talk) 08:31, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Low quality, photos already exist atAl Stewart. Unused. — This, that, and the other (talk) 10:12, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unclear purpose; unused. The creator, after uploading this, decided to use a wikitable instead. — This, that, and the other (talk) 10:12, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unused; not specially useful in image form; unidentified subject (where is it?). — This, that, and the other (talk) 10:16, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unused; possibly WP:MADEUP. — This, that, and the other (talk) 10:17, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unused screenshot of a custom (non-notable) web-browser; unencyclopedic. — This, that, and the other (talk) 10:20, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted as F4 by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 04:03, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OTRS ticket 2011110210008554 explicitly claims that these are copyrighted and not available for free use. —Tom Morris (talk) 16:21, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Magog the Ogre (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OTRS ticket 2011110210008554 explicitly claims that these are copyrighted and not available for free use. —Tom Morris (talk) 16:22, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Magog the Ogre (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OTRS ticket 2011110210008554 explicitly claims that these are copyrighted and not available for free use. —Tom Morris (talk) 16:22, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Magog the Ogre (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OTRS ticket 2011110210008554 explicitly claims that these are copyrighted and not available for free use. —Tom Morris (talk) 16:23, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: keep - PD. Magog the Ogre (talk) 16:36, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is a free use photo File:Space Patrol cast 1950.JPG now available. We hope (talk) 16:29, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi We hope,

The "Space Patrol Cast" - Photo that I have uploaded is of far better quality than the one suggested and it is historically more important. The "one" I am using was also a photo that was used as a cereal box premium giveaway during the entire run of the show. The other one is a copy of a photo from a weekly television magazine of the 50s. The new one was never copyrighted - distributed freely in cereal boxes and accompanied premium offers, etc. The fact that it poses the main cast in the actual television set is important as well.

Editor skier dude brought to me attention that the file was a candidate for deletion because it was orphaned. That's my fault. After searching for some time to find the picture, locating and uploading it - I neglected to place it in the article (I was traveling at the time). I apologize. It is no longer an "orphan article" as it his been placed in the article. Because it is of far better quality and meets the same standards as the one suggested - I would prefer to keep it instead.

Thank you - Sinclairindex (talk) 20:26, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For what it may be worth I would keep this file given its rarity and given that the photo used in the Space Patrol article is without a copyright and was freely distributed in cereal boxes and everywhere else in the early 1950s. This current graphic is more "encyclopedic" in nature. The suggested photograph substitute that is one taken from an old 50s TV Guide which did have a copyright whereas the one used in this article does not. If there is a choice, I would instead upload this one for permanent use and perhaps delete the other one. Neverland1 (talk) 20:39, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Question - Sinclairindex: can you look for a copyright notice on the original press packet? They often didn't carry one, and if so, then this is a free image. Magog the Ogre (talk) 12:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Great suggestion Magog the Ogre,

There is no copyright notice. You're right about the cereal premiums, most of which were never copyrighted. Mike Moser, the producer on all the Space Patrol did a marvelous job in production but horrible on legal rights. He failed to even copyright any of the episodes. The image copy that I've uploaded was scanned from an original and cleaned up (mars and scratches, removed, etc. So - this should be ready to go as a free image. I'm uncertain how this is done or who must do it would be a great idea to do so.

Many thanks, Sinclairindex (talk) 15:11, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Wrong forum. The file is on Commons. Please nominate it for deletion there if you still feel it should be deleted. AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:13, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

LQ; better image available at Commons Jeffrey Beall (talk) 17:00, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have moved the image to File:Brandon McDonald 2009.JPG to make room for the higher quality Commons image. Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:20, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oprhaned file which is possibly WP:MADEUP, very likely copy-vio w/regards to crown image. Unencyclopedic. Acather96 (talk) 18:40, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: keep for sake of attribution history, and alternate version uploaded over top. Magog the Ogre (talk) 12:05, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

a rotated version is at File:OccupyTheRoof (revison).jpg -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 19:24, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by SchuminWeb (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 09:03, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not the official logo, not used in Amtrak maps/timetables/route guides. — Train2104 (talk • contribs • count) 19:34, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by SchuminWeb (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 09:03, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not the official logo, not used on timetable/map/route guide. — Train2104 (talk • contribs • count) 19:45, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Magog the Ogre (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 14:08, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

orphaned user image; no other encyc use Skier Dude (talk) 21:20, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned; unencylopedic; not wanted on commons (random personal photos are not liked over there). — This, that, and the other (talk) 22:22, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Terrible quality: better image at File:Brandon McDonald.JPG — This, that, and the other (talk) 22:23, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned JPG map, superseded by File:Taiwan ROC political division map Hualien County.svg. Kelly ^hi! 23:35, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Delete; deleted by Skier Dude (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 05:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Superseded by File:CBC logo 1940–1958.png on Commons. This logo is in the public domain, so this one isn't necessary. InverseHypercube 23:41, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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November 2

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