F.C. Porto in international club football

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because even though I think I have brought it to a good standard, I beleive there is always something that can be improved or errors that can be fixed and which my biased eyes can no longer detect.

Unlike similar articles, such as Liverpool F.C. in European football, I decided to name this article with a broader but more integrative title, since – unlike Liverpool – Porto have actually won titles of a more worldwide nature, thus not restricted to the European space and football. I raised this naming question at the WikiProject Football forum but no decision was reached, so I decided to make the move. I appreciate if reviewers can also discuss on this.

Thanks, Parutakupiu (talk) 01:10, 12 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comments I'll do a quick pass in sections, and then a final run through hopefully!

• 3 dab links, Fernando Gomes, poker and ... (can't see the third....!)
  • Fernando Gomes was linked twice, that's why it picked three. Fixed one, unlinked the second, and reworded the third.
• " two times" -> twice and "one time" -> "once".
  • Changed
• " the 1956–57 season" which season? Is this the Portuguese season? Maybe link appropriately.
  • Changed to "in 1956".
• You mention many but link only one cup in the lead.
  • Linked cup years.
• "The tournament's expansion..." potentially confusing as the last "tournament" you mentioned was the Portuguese league.
  • Clarified.
• "bowed out " colloquial, not encyclopedic language.
  • Reworded.
• "pitted them against" similarly.
  • Reworded.
• "qualified to the" -> "qualified for the". Check this throughout.
  • Fixed every instance.
• "returned to the Fairs Cup" is used in the final sentence of two consecutive paragraphs, a bit repetitive.
  • Rephrased both instances.
• "they were unable to go past the second round" get past.
  • Fixed.
• "and the only time Porto eliminated the Spanish" ->"and the only time Porto has eliminated the Spanish"
  • Added "have" instead as it appears to be more common to use the plural form.
• "(pictured)." should be in italics.
  • Italicized.
• "was not fortunate" not encyclopedic.
  • Changed the wording.
• "The 1983 Portuguese Cup final was lost to " -> "Porto lost the 1983..."
  • Reverted the subject.
• "steered by" -> "managed by".
  • Changed.
• " international growth and affirmation of Porto" I don't really know what this means.
  • Changed to "growth of the club's international curriculum". Is it ok, this way?
• "Welsh cup runners-up" surely a link for the Welsh Cup exists (and I expect it's a capital C for cup there?).
  • You're right. Fixed.
• Is "surprisingly" a quote? If so it should be in quotes, if not, it's a little unencylopedic.
  • Removed POV element.
• Skipping on a bit, you'll need to link everything that can be linked in sortable tables (as you don't know which is going to be first when it's resorted).
  • Done.
• Also, check your references - accessdates should be in a consistent format, publication dates should be in a consistent format.
  • Will work on that.
• What makes "http://www.footballzz.co.uk" a reliable source?
  • Well, I don't think I can find a compeling argument... I'll see if I can replace with better sources. Parutakupiu (talk) 00:59, 22 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • As I suspected, I cannot find a reliable online source with those data. There was another one, europeancuphistory.com, but I think it's not more reliable that footballzz.com and in fact the domain is currently in a "black list", so it couldn't be used anyway. I guess I'll be removing the table soon. Parutakupiu (talk) 01:38, 22 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:07, 21 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comments II

• "Juary scored all goals" -> perhaps "scored all Porto's goals" or "scored a hat-trick" (suitably linked).
  • Rephrased.
• For some of the more obscure clubs, like Rabat Ajax, perhaps add some context like "Maltese club Rabat Ajax"?
  • Added reference to country of origin.
• " the lead on the 25th minute" this should be "in" the whatever minute. Check throughout.
  • All checked and fixed.
• " and to his place came" -> "and was replaced by".
• " Porto got the opportunity to dispute the 1987 European " -> "Porto contested the 1987..."
• " under a snowstorm" -> "in a snowstorm"
  • Changed the above three points.
• "which nearly cancelled the match[50] –," move the ref per MOS:REF.
  • Rephrased to eliminate the dashes.
• "roll inside" -> "roll into the goal".
  • Changed.
• "Porto had a bump-free start, beating comfortably" tabloid writing I'm afraid.
  • I agree. Changed to a more neutral and encyclopedic style.
• " an important one-goal draw in Munich, Porto were beaten at home by 2–0" -> "a 1–1 draw in Munich, Porto were beaten at home 2–0."
  • Changed.
• "the late 90s, " -> "the late 1990s, "
  • Done.
• I would expand PSV for their whole name.
  • Added full name.
• Link Werder Bremen. And by Milan, do you mean AC Milan?
  • Added link to Werder Bremen. "Milan" is the short form of AC Milan; the other Milano team is better known as "Inter" or "Internazionale".
• "but as Porto's 88th minute equaliser appeared to take the decision into extra-time, the Germans scored the winner one minute later" -> "but despite Porto's 88th minute equaliser, the Germans qualified after scoring the winning goal a minute later." (or something like that.)
  • Replaced word by word.
• "they were stopped in the" not "stopped" but perhaps "defeated" or "beaten".
  • Changed.
• "Porto hired a young Portuguese manager who had led an unfancied Leiria to an all-time league high fifth place – José Mourinho." again, reads like a newspaper, perhaps "Porto hired XX-year-old Portuguese manager Jose Mourinho who had led Leiria to their best ever league finish...."?
  • Changed accordingly. Parutakupiu (talk) 23:38, 22 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 16:42, 22 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comments III

• "secure a third place" no need for "a".
• "and a spot in the" -> "and qualification for the".
• " cruised past " not really encyclopedic.
• "a non-compromising away loss" not sure this odd phrase is even needed, perhaps suffering only a single defeat.... or similar?
• "Porto saw themselves" would prefer "Porto went behind" or something more "active" than just "seeing themselves...", do you get what I'm trying to say?!
• "Their opponents would be Celtic" why not just "were Celtic"?
• "a scorching Andalusian heat" a little journalistic. Perhaps you could find a source for the actual temperature?
• "he scored the 2–2," this doesn't make sense, and we don't know who "he" is here.
• "fired past Celtic's keeper and two others defenders to net the winner" bit newspaper again.
• "to conclude a treble-winning season." this sentence appears to be unreferenced.
• " qualified to the" for the.
• " Scholes put" Paul Scholes.
• "eliminating convincingly the" -> "convincingly eliminating"
• "On the other side was" -> The other finalists were... (also, be careful, you flick between singular and plural when referring to clubs, need to be consistent).
• I'm not convinced that a 3-0 defeat could be considered "crushing".
• " to kill any French hopes" journalistic.

The Rambling Man (talk) 15:28, 23 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• • Changed every instance of non-encyclopedic writing style, and added the required references. Once again, thanks for the thorough review! Parutakupiu (talk) 16:21, 23 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comments IV

• "Post-Mourinho hangover" not keen, again a bit like a newspaper.

How about if I switch "hangover" with "transition"? Can't think of anything better... Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• " players to bigger European" not sure how you quantify (or cite) "bigger" here?

Changed to "players to clubs from prominent European leagues". Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• "To succeed Mourinho, Porto signed Luigi Delneri but the Italian was sacked before overseeing an official match" is this referenced?

Reference added. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• " lost their second UEFA Super Cup" no need to link "lost their second" here.

Rephrased that part. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• "As Duff" -> "Damien Duff" - when referring to these English players (and probably most European players) the first time, use their full names.

Corrected. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• "The defending champions ended nonetheless their campaign in the..." perhaps something like "Nevertheless the defending champions were knocked out in the ...."

Changed as suggested. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• "secured qualification to the 2005–06 UEFA Champions League group stage" if their league form was weak, how did the secure this qualification?

That season the Portuguese league had the possibility of qualifying directly their top two teams to the group stage, and the third to the qualifying round. Do you think it's important to add this explanation for this specific season? Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• "the club snatched " don't like "snatched", sounds tabloidy.

Replaced with "signed". Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Bendtner -> Niklas Bendtner.... (see above).

Corrected. Will check other instances. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• "Betting in a young and inexperienced coach payed dividends" If you really want this, it should be "Betting on a young and inexperienced coach paid dividends..." but that reads journalistic to me, you need to state the facts, they didn't "bet" on him, you may be able to "quote" this though if you have a suitable source?

Yeah, I don't have, so I'll change to a more encyclopedic style. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• "Porto's performance was more contrived" odd thing to say, or at least, odd for me to read it in this context. Do you mean more "contained"? "less effusive"? I'm not sure what you're saying.

That's what I meant, "contained"... as in "less spectacular". Thanks for reminding me of the word. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• "with a lonely goal" -> "a single goal".
• "ended his link with Porto" ->" left Porto..."
• "who agreed to become the new head coach" -> new Porto head coach.

Changed the three above. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• "The team disappointed " disappointed who? Or do you mean they just got knocked out early? Perhaps write more encyclopedic here and stick to the facts.

Wow, I really exagerated with the journalistic tone, didn't I? Changed. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• We're now quite a way through the 2012–13 UEFA Champions League, you need to update the article accordingly.

Will do. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• "Goals in favour" normally just referred to as "Goals for".

Changed. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• You don't have a GD column in every table?

No. Only the "by country" table had that in the source (which you've challenged, by the way). But I can add to the others. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

GD columns have been added. Parutakupiu (talk) 03:01, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• The GD column in the table you do have it in doesn't sort correctly.

Yes, I didn't fix it because I'll probably have to remove it since the reliability of its sole source has been challenged by you and I couldn't find an alternative. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

OK, it is sorting well now, after a few dashes were replaced by minus signs. Parutakupiu (talk) 03:01, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Why shouldn't the "Round" column sort?

Should the last round reached by a team be a sortable item? How to sort them: alphabetically or by progression level? It gets tricky with older tournaments, with rounds that were in time replaced or supplemented by others... Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• In the "finals" section, you have "Super Cup (1st leg)" but no second leg?

It is there, but only after the 1987 IC. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Check references meet WP:DASH, i.e. don't use hyphens in date ranges or score lines etc.

Will do so. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hyphens are now replaced by en-dashes where appropriate. Parutakupiu (talk) 03:01, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 17:35, 27 March 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]