History of York City F.C.

I've been doing a lot of work on this article recently, it's currently at GAN and am wondering what else needs doing for a crack at FAC. Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 12:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) comments

Hey Matty, here you go, my usual tirade of trivia...

• I don't think there's a need to say Football (soccer) here.
  •  Done Pipelinked to say football. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:18, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Lead "The club was formed in 1922,...", first main para "York City Football Club was first founded in 1908..." - confusing as the lead says "The history of York City F.C. covers the years from the club's formation to the present day." - needs to be consistent.
  •  Done Added infomation on the first club in the lead. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:21, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...played here..." - more like "...played at this level..." than "here"?
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...election to the Football League was won." - I don't want to come over all anti-passive voice but I'd prefer "...when they won election to the Football League." Similar with "Crewe Alexandra were beaten" - "they beat Crewe Alexandra"...
  •  Done Replaced to active form. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "1958–589" - typo.
  •  Done Fixed. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "organized" - Brit Eng please, so "organised". There is more than one instance of this.
  •  Done Done. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...saw another play-off appearances." - singular appearance surely?
  •  Done Typo, I think (and hope!). Mattythewhite (talk) 19:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "The club currently remains this division, but made the play-offs in the 2006–07 season." - sort of the wrong way round. They remain in the division because they failed in the play-offs...
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Section headings aren't great, while accurate they're not exactly inspiring!
  • I know, but I'd say it's a bit subjective to have something like "Early years" on it, if that's okay. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "The club first joined the Northern League..." in the same year as their foundation? A year later? Clarify.
  •  Done Season added. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:39, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "which was won 2–1" - presumably you're saying York won it so say "which York won 2–1"...
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:43, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "York's first game was against South Bank, which was won 2–1, and entered the FA Amateur Cup..." - this doesn't read correctly...
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:43, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• British English should encourage "First World War" etc.
  •  Done Did without even reading this comment! Mattythewhite (talk) 19:43, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "York played their first game at Fulfordgate..." - so presumably the game against Notts County was away? So emphasise either that or the fact that the game at Fulfordgate was "their first home game at Fulfordgate"
  •  Done Clarified. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...9th place out of 22nd..." out of 22.
  •  Done Done. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...saw York finish...... March 1923, but failed..." - tenses go astray.
  •  Done Fixed (I think). Mattythewhite (talk) 19:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...which was lost 3–1." - York lost 3–1 - makes it clearer.
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• The league gets re-organised and then "which saw York finish sixth in the Principal Competition and runners-up to Denaby United". I don't think the reorganisation necessarily led to York finishing sixth.
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "6th place out of 20th" - out of 20. And all other instances of similar.
  •  Done Done. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• [13][9][14] - order citations numerically. And all other instances of similar.
  •  Done Re-order numerically. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:07, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...election was won to the Football League..." - "when York won election to the Football League"?
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "finished with a famous 2–0 victory" - famous to whom, whose victory exactly?
  •  Done Removed "famous" and added more. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "seceretary" - typo.
  •  Done Fixed. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• " His first season in charge saw York finish 12th in the league,[20] and again did well in the FA Cup," - English issues.
  •  Done Improved, I think. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:18, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• " York finished in 12th position in Collier's first season back and had to be content with 15th position in the 1934–35 season, but also gained an FA Cup match with First Division side Derby County in the third round, which was lost 1–0.[26]" - consider splitting these two.
  •  Done Sentences split into two. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "The 1937–38 season firmly placed York City on the football map.[27]" - strange standalone sentence, perhaps flow into the justification for the claim?
  •  Done Sentences merged. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "a record which will last for all time" - how can you prove that?
  •  Done Justified. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:31, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "... gave players their insurance cards..." what does this mean?
  •  Done Removed and added more information. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:51, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "The FA organized regional competitions for football to proceed on a wartime footing and York decided to carry on during the war." - but then you don't talk about any of the football played during the war, instead you head straight for 45/46 season...
  •  Done Added some information for the war, but didn't include any in the first place to keep consistent with other FAs. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:51, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "soccer boom"?! Football, surely, but then, boom? Explanation required.
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "The following season saw York win the North Riding Senior Cup and, however, have to seek re-election ..." not good English.
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...after finishing bottom of Division Three North.[35] This was successful,..." Hmm, needs some rewording.
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "Arguably..." who's arguing this viewpoint?
  •  Done Removed. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Image:YCFC1950.jpg fair use template incorrectly filled in.
  • How so? Could you help please? Mattythewhite (talk) 21:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "leagues formative season" missing apostrophe I think?
  •  Done Apostrophe added. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...York missed out on the runner-up spot due to goal average, they were however promoted to Division Three.[46]..." - they finished third?
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:03, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm about half way through, and I think most of the issues I've come up with are related to the article needing a good copyedit. I suggest you head over to WP:LOCE and place a request. Hope these comments have been useful, if you'd like me to continue reviewing (from 59-80 onwards) then give me a shout. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:18, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) - Part Deux.

Okay, onwards...

• Please recheck that all citations are in numerical order, I now spot [3][1]...
  •  Done Checked. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...would have ensured promotion to the Third Division against Aldershot in the final game of the season, but lost 1–0." - surely it would have to have been a win against Aldershot to ensure promotion? Reword, something like "a win against Aldershot in the final match of the season would have guaranteed promotion but..."
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• " 22nd of the Fourth Division" - "22nd in"...
  •  Done Done. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:12, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...guilty of fixing the results and matches..." if he's fixing the results, he must be fixing the matches so there's some redundancy here.
  •  Done Removed redundancy. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:12, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...rose from the ashes .." - peacock term.
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...instantly relegated ..." - not really, it was after a whole season of football...
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...Tom Lockie became the first manager to be dismissed by the club in October 1967 and finished the 1967–68 season in 21st place under new manager ..." - Lockie finished 21st? Slight reword required - e.g. "and the club finished..."
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:24, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "Shaw announced his shock resignation " - why a shock? He got the club relegated didn't he?
  •  Done Removed "shock". Mattythewhite (talk) 17:24, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "York shocked the football world " = really?! NPOV please.
  •  Done Removed. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:24, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "a big cup-tie " again, NPOV.
  •  Done Removed. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:24, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "finishing bottom of the Third Division in 24th place" - bottom is 24th place so redundant - just say bottom of the division...
  •  Done Redundancy removed. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:24, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• There's a lot of applying for re-election to the league - this needs expanding on at least the first time in order to help the non-expert understand the process a bit.
  •  Done Expanded a bit on re-election. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "perhaps their worst-ever season" - POV. And it doesn't seem any worse than any other season where they finished bottom and had to seek re-election so you need to justify anything like that...
  •  Done Removed. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "finished bottom of the Fourth Division in 24th place " - redundant position again.
  •  Done Removed redundancy. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "the first team to do so in the Football League" - first team to do what? Presumably you mean the first team to score over 100 points? You've already mentioned 101 pts was a record so then saying they were the first team to score 101 points is redundant - are you saying one or two things here?
  •  Done Clarified. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "York provided a 1–0 win " strange terminology...
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:47, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "oversaw the team finish " English. Either "saw the team finish" or "oversaw the team to finish" I think.
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:47, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "a footballer for York" strange terminology again - a York player would do the trick.
  •  Done Like that before my work! Done. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:47, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "astonishing victory " NPOV please.
  •  Done Removed. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:47, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "Team B&Q" wikilink possible?
  • Afraid not. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "...and took control of the club ..." exactly how did they achieve this? It's really important to explain this fully as it is a very significant moment in the club's history.
  •  Done Expanded. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "27 years-of-age " just at 27 would do for me.
  •  Done Removed "years-of-age". Mattythewhite (talk) 18:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "youngest-ever " hyphen not required.
  •  Done Removed hyphen. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• "three places from the play-offs, which was achieved in " - this sentences don't run on. Reword.
  •  Done Reworded. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• When continually referencing the same book, you can really cut down what you put in the ((Cite book)) template, no need to continually repeat the title, the ISBN etc. Just stick with the author, the year of publication and the page numbers.
  •  Done I've shortened the book references by giving the author's last name, title and page number, like what you did on Bobby Robson. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's about it. Good luck with it, wherever you take it from now on! One thing worth considering is a graph of league finishes. That we get a good illustration of all the re-elections and bouncing around near the bottom of the Football League. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:41, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style. If you would find such a review helpful, please click here. Thanks, APR _t 12:49, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ChrisTheDude (talk · contribs) comments

Couple of quick points at a first cursory glance (all relate to the lead):

• was formed in 1922, and were elected - either refer to the club as singular or plural, but not both in the same sentence
  •  Done Changed to singular. Mattythewhite 12:39, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• The following season saw another play-off appearance, but were beaten by Stockport County in the semi-final - grammatically incorrect - should read "York were beaten"
  •  Done Added. Mattythewhite 12:39, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Also, the penultimate sentence of the lead uses "the club were" (plural) but then the very next sentence uses "the club remains" (singular). It seems a bit unclear whether British English users should refer to "the club" in the singular or the plural, but whichever you choose should be consistently applied....
  •  Done Changed to singular. Mattythewhite 12:39, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:29, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]