List of Bristol Rovers F.C. players

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I've listed this article for peer review because I plan on getting it up to Featured List standard, and I would be very grateful for and comments and suggestions that would help in this.

I've used the current featured list List of Gillingham F.C. players as a basic template, although I've only included players with over 100 League appearances, as opposed to the Gillingham list's 50. I'd be interested to hear from any WP:FOOTY members if they think this list should be expanded to include players with over 50 games played.

I am also aware that there should be no red links in featured lists, and although there are some in this list at the moment I am in the process of creating articles for all of them.

Many thanks, — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 08:46, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comments - I'm not a football fan but have worked on a few featured lists, therefore I can only comment on style etc issues rather than content.

• There are only 2 references (Soccerbase & the Byrne book) & to get FL you would need to provide references for all players stats & for the information about seasons, grounds and records in the lead.

Ok, I didn't include this because the featured list I was basing it on didn't have them. I will do this though when I have a little bit more time.

List of Gillingham F.C. players was promoted to FL in 2007 - I doubt if it would pass now.— Rod ^talk 10:21, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• The soccerbase references need to include details of the publisher (which appears to be the Racing Post).

Done, and converted to cite web templates instead of plain external links. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 10:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• The Byrne ref should be updated to the 13 digit format ISBN (which is 978-0752427171)

Done. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 10:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Grounds - why were they "forced to leave" Eastville? & 10 years "in exile" could be seen as being POV

Will look at re-wording or explaining these better

• Not sure if national flags should be included in the list - I thought this was discouraged, but not sure on that.

These are generally included in sporting lists, but I agree that they're not absolutely necessary. I'll wait for further comments before removing them though.

• The table is quite narrow (on my screen) & Apps. in the column titles could be written in full.

Done. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 10:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Should the last column be references rather than notes? & 5-16 put into a separate References section rather than notes?

Partially done – column renamed references. Will do a full overhaul of the referencing later on. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 10:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• It is unusual to see a link to a cat in the hatnote at the top

Removed. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 10:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• "Statistics are correct as of 26 December 2009" isn't this going to be a massive job to maintain for current players?

There are only six current players on the list so updating their stats isn't going to be a big deal. Players becoming eligible to be included doesn't happen all that often either, so I don't think this is a problem.

• There is lots of white space to the right of the table - could more photos (perhaps of the top 10 record holders) be included?

The problem here is the lack of photos available on a free licence. I will certainly have a search to find more pictures though.

Hope that is helpful - I think the biggest issue is the lack of references for the majority of the claims made.— Rod ^talk 09:44, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you very much for your help, it was very useful. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 10:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comments: Just a few quick comments from my experiences at FLC:

• The lead needs inline references.
• The footnotes and references should not be all in the same section. See the way that notes and refs are separated here

I will overhaul the referencing later on, as explained above. Thanks for the pointers.

• Red links are allowed, as long as they are minimal.

OK, thank you.

• The alt text should help visually impaired users create a mental image of the picture so saying that it is a black and white picture of Dick Pudan might not be that helpful

Alt text is something I don't have much experience with, and I worry about making the description unnecessarily complicated. I've made the text of the Pudan photo a bit more descriptive now.

• Image captions aren't real sentences so the Pudan one doesn't need a full stop

Full stop removed.

Hope these help for now -- BigDom 09:59, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks very much for your comments. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 10:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Al text comments:

Suggest for Dick Pudan image. A man wearing a football shirt with alternate light and dark stripes: his arms folded, standing in front of an indistinct background. He has short dark hair and a moustache. The alt text should only contain information that is in the image. The name, the club, etc. are irrelevant. See WP:Alt text for examples. Suggest for Geoff Bradford picture: A middle aged man wearing shirt, grey pullover and light grey anorak, holding a trophy cup. other people behind him, all standing on grass. Bottom right of picture cut off by a wall. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you, I've used your suggested text and also added another photo. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 08:54, 10 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comments from WFCforLife I've started a very similar list at the moment for Watford, and just had a list promoted for the Seattle Sounders.

• Normally FLCs have one lead image, and any further pictures start in the section below it. See Premier League Manager of the Month as an example. I'd suggest having the one of Geoff Bradford as the lead image, and moving the other two a little further down so that they don't cut through the heading.

Done — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 15:49, 17 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• It would be a good idea to add the following to the top of the list:

((for|a list of all Bristol Rovers F.C. players with a Wikipedia article|:Category:Bristol Rovers F.C. players))

Funnily enough this was on there to start with, but I removed it following a comment above. I've put it back in now. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 15:49, 17 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• MOS:BOLD suggests that we shouldn't use bold to highlight people in a table. Consider using a colour and symbol instead. See List of Watford F.C. Players of the Season for an example.

Highlighted instead of bolded — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 15:49, 17 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Redlinks aren't a big problem. People will comment on them, but as long as you can justify why these players should have a wikipedia article in future it should be fine.
• There's no consensus about the cutoff at WP:FOOTY. It has come up in the past, but discussions usually end without agreement because nobody wants to change their list. I'm not sure how that would pan out at FLC.
• Might be worth wikilinking soccerbase when you link the racing post.

Soccerbase is just a redirect to Racing Post, so there's no point in adding the wikilink. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 15:49, 17 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Sorry that we didn't beat Bristol City the other week. A draw is as good as it gets for us away.

Hee hee. :-)

Hope (most of) that helps! WFCforLife (talk) 22:54, 16 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]