Richard II of England

This peer review discussion has been closed.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I would like to try and get this article to FA status; I don't think it should be too far off. Most of all I would appreciate if someone could check the language - I know I can be sloppy and inaccurate sometimes. I'd also like comments on the clarity of the article, and if there are places where the meaning doesn't come through as well as it should.

Thanks, Lampman (talk) 18:06, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the semi-automated stuff, I've implemented the useful bits. I'd still like a human being to have a look at the article though. Lampman (talk) 19:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


JMiall comments

That's enough specific points from the 1st sections. More generally I think that the article reads too much like an essay, try to remove the conversational or speculative bits. Also the early life section has almost no details about his early life - we have where he was born and the age he was when his relations died. Is nothing else known? I also get the feeling that it is written from a 'history whilst Richard II was King' perspective rather than being an article about Richard II but I'm having difficulty finding concrete examples. Hopefully this is enough to start off with. JMiall 21:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for a thorough review, I've tried to implement the changes. If you would like to make comments on the remainder of the text, please do. What exactly do you mean by "Personally I'd like the 1st paragraph to", this seems like an incomplete sentence. Also, what exactly is the issue with the 'upstart merchant family'?
  • Upstart - what I meant by this is that calling something an upstart is potentially POV and it is not clear from this why they were regarded as such. Were they rich merchants who had recently gained political power through their wealth or just merchants who had recently gained a lot of wealth. Presumably it was the established nobility who thought they were upstarts or was this a widely held view at the time?
  • The de la Pole family's rise from merchants to the highest levels of the nobility is unique in medieval England, so this is more than a matter of perception. Perhaps a better word than 'upstart' could be found though.
  • I think what I was going to say in the incomplete sentence is that the 1st paragraph of the article is quite weak. I'd prefer to sum up his life in 1 paragraph 1st and then expand a little in the next 2. Part of the job of the intro is to grab the attention and I don't think a paragraph stating when he became xth in line to the throne to start with quite does it. JMiall 21:29, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hm, I'm not quite sure how to do this. It seems what you're suggesting would mean summing up the article twice in the lead section. In any case, I'm gonna close this peer review now and take my chances with FAC. Many thanks! Lampman (talk) 15:51, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid very little is known about the first ten years of Richard's life. Saul spends something like 17 pages on this in a book of over 500 pages, and even this bit mostly deals with his parents. It is probably true that the article reads like a "history of England under Richard II", or at least a "political history of England under Richard II", but I believe this is a natural consequence of the difficulty in distinguishing between a medieval king as a person and the political actions of his government, or even the nation as a political entity. Lampman (talk) 17:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]