The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Diannaa (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 15:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Diannaa (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 15:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the discussion was: Keep; the uploader has provided a scan of the back of the photograph and there is no copyright notice: File:Back of Eve McVeagh in Snafu.jpg Dianna (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have explained to Stefan2 that this photo had no copyright, no author. This was typical for publicity photos of the 1940s in the United States. I purchased the photo on eBay. There are no copyright markings on the picture front or back. Upon research I found the publicity photo was taken for the Biltmore Theatre on Broadway (now the Samuel J Friedman Theatre). I gave him the address to contact them. He refused to contact the theatre saying there is no guarantee a person would be there to help him. He said the photo needed to be scanned on the back (I understand that Wiki procedure). However, the photo is brittle and framed and I do not wish to scan it again in case of damage. I also found that a copy of the scanned photo was on the http://kirkdouglaslives.com/ website under "ladies of kirk douglas films" of the 1960s (although the picture is over 20 years older than the movie "The Way West" from 1968. I asked Stefan2 to contact the webmaster who might have more information regarding the copyright status. The photo is now a candidate for deletion under "possibly unfree files." However, there never was a copyright, this is a theatre publicity photo from 70 years ago, and never had a copyright nor had one applied for before 1978 or any other time; therefore this is clearly public domain in the United States.Hans100 (talk) 22:09, 5 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100[reply]
Also please see multiple discussions on Stefan2's talk page (some of which he deleted), Hans100 talk page, and picture talk page.Hans100 (talk) 22:19, 5 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100[reply]
I would also ask, if this is not a headshot publicity photo from "Snafu", what does Stefan2 propose this photo is and who could possibly hold the copyright if none was credited in 1945? Hans100 (talk)Hans100
Inspect the photo image, notice its chrome process age and you can even see faint lines around McVeagh's head where the photo was cropped for a theatre credit board. This is how it was done in the old days. A board was created in the theatre lobby with actors pictures, and construction paper with cutouts was overlaid to show faces of the actors in a design pattern. No digital design or graphic design. Paper, glue, tape, and original photos was how they did it. It is amazing this picture survived. Hans100 (talk) 22:35, 5 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100[reply]
This discussion had been dated Apr 5 instead of Apr 4 in the warning box, so it was not easily found. I would appreciate the feedback of others on this topic.Hans100 (talk) 07:47, 6 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100[reply]
NO COPYRIGHT WAS EVER GIVEN FOR THIS PHOTOGRAPH AND THE SOURCE IS THE BILTMORE THEATRE ON BROADWAY (NOW THE SAMUEL J FRIEDMAN THEATRE) WHICH HAS NOT DEMONSTRATED A COPYRIGHT NOR EVER SAID A COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT HAS BEEN MADE.Hans100 (talk) 08:01, 7 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100[reply]
Stefan2:I noted above, although it has been deleted, that I know a family member of the late Ms McVeagh that will provide a letter backing up the public domain status. What information must they provide? They can send me the letter and I can forward to you or they can send directly to you.Hans100 (talk) 04:18, 8 April 2013 Hans100 (talk) 04:20, 8 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100[reply]
I can provide uncropped scans. The issue is will this be enough given the photographer is dead and the circulation of the picture is unknown. If all you need is scanned front and back, then I will provide that if that is all that you need. If you need proof about circulation and other things, then I will not take the risk of damaging the photo by taking it out of the frame.Hans100 (talk) 00:13, 9 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100[reply]
Hi Stefan2. I am responding to some issues that MilborneOne communicated were some of your main concerns. Firstly, how I know this is from the Biltmore Theatre production of Snafu and secondly, is there a possible substitute photo from the role or era that the heirs could upload? I ask you to please take the time to read carefully the history of this photo, and thank you in advance for taking the time. 1) According to http://ibdb.com/production.php?id=1588 (at the internet Broadway data base), Snafu ran at the Hudson Theatre in 1944 and then moved to the Biltmore Theatre on 1/01/45. Broadway theatre's use their own photos and art for plays (this was not a touring company, but a change in venue on Broadway). The picture is dated 1945 and says "Snafu" on the back indicating this would have been for the Biltmore. Although not as apparent in the scanned copy, you can see where the photo was cropped for presentation. There is a faint line in a geometric shape around McVeagh's head. This, in addition to the title "Snafu" on the back and her name written (spelled incorrectly--McVey) indicate it was used at the theatre lobby picture board. The art department in the lobby was most likely marking and naming pics for posting to the lobby display not being too carefull on spelling, just preparing the pictures for set up. Think back to a time before computers. To create a lobby display of the actors photos, the photos would be placed on one sheet and then an overlay of construction paper with cutouts would be placed over that. The pictures would have been cropped ahead of time to design the overlay in an artistic way such that there is not a board of square photos, but cutouts in different sizes and shapes. No photographer is credited on the picture nor would we expect one in that era. All of these facts in addition to my friendship with a family member who confirmed this point to the photo being used for the 1945 "Snafu" production at the Biltmore trail. 2) There are no other copies of this photo I am aware of nor that the family is aware of from this role or era, so no replacement could be used. McVeagh had a short Broadway career before coming back to Hollywood to act in films,television, and radio. Although a copy of this photo has been scanned before on other web pages that I have seen, I may own the only physical copy at this point. Therefore, there is really no substitute for this photo for this role or era.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I understand your concerns, but I know that there is no copyright on this photo.Hans100 (talk) 20:47, 9 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100[reply]
Yes, I have the original photo which I purchased on eBay. I have a friend who is an heir to McVeagh who authenticated the photo. I have said I will scan both sides of the photo if necessary, but I want to be assured that will be the final step in the authentication process. The photo is brittle and in a frame, and I do not want to risk taking it out of the frame, scanning it, damaging it, and then still being told I have not provided sufficient information. I saw no copyright information on the back when it was framed which is consistent with publicity photos of the era which were not copyrighted. It said "Snafu" and was dated 1945 on the back.Hans100 (talk) 21:36, 10 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100Hans100 (talk) 21:39, 10 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100Hans100 (talk) 21:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100[reply]
Hi Dianna, as I have said above, I will provide the scan if this will be the last request for information. Every time this photo is taken out of the frame, it is a risk to the photo (i.e., falling apart or chipping). When this topic was originally brought up, there were requests to give proof that the photo was not an "uncirculated copy" which I have no way to prove or disprove. However, if one more scan will put this issue to bed so to speak, I will carefully scan the back of the photo. Hans100 (talk) 21:37, 16 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100[reply]
The scan of the back has been placed on the picture page. I had to do it in color because the fading stamps were in color and illegible if not.Hans100 (talk) 02:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100 The back of the photo is put with the cropped photos all though it is the back of the entire photo.Hans100 (talk) 02:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)Hans100[reply]
The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Diannaa (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 15:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Diannaa (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 15:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Diannaa (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 15:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Diannaa (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 15:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Diannaa (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 15:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by INeverCry (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 21:13, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Diannaa (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 15:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Diannaa (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 15:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The result of the debate was: Delete; deleted by Garion96 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 10:04, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
