A summary of the debate may be found at the bottom of the page.
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Whether FT2 deliberately misled the community regarding when he first learned his earliest edits to Wikipedia had been oversighted in December 2007.
During the run-up to the 2007 ArbCom election, which saw FT2 elected to the Committee, Peter Damian questioned FT2 about his earliest edits to Wikipedia. These appeared to show detailed knowledge of Zoophilia. Peter Damian was subsequently blocked because the manner in which he asked the questions was deemed inappropriate. After his block, he posted a link to the edits on his blog. The edits were subsequently oversighted by David Gerard on December 7, 2007, during the election. FT2 later solicited Peter Damian's indefinite block, [1] and lobbied hard for it not to be undone.
FT2 has made 1,325 edits to Zoophilia and Talk:Zoophilia. The current edit history suggests his first edits to the article were on July 12, 2004, when he added just a few words, and on July 21, 2004, when he added more. The July 21 edit summary says "did some research to find out how common it is, and added the results." [2] This gives the impression of an editor with no personal knowledge of the subject, who has looked it up on behalf of Wikipedia.
However, his first edits to the article were in fact on July 11 — they were also his first edits to Wikipedia — and they appear to show detailed knowledge of the subject (without sources), before he could be expected to have done any research for Wikipedia. The edits are now oversighted and attributed to the next editor, an anon IP, here. His familiarity with the subject may or may not have made a difference to voters' perception of him during the election.
On July 4, 2008, Alex Bakharev asked FT2 what he knew about the oversighting. FT2 replied that Alex's question was the first he had heard of the matter. [3] He repeated this on November 27, 2008. [4]
He was urged several times during November and December 2008, and January 2009, to give more details by (in order of those who raised it on User talk:FT2) Tom Harrison, Jehochman, Giano, SlimVirgin, Private Musings, Viridae, Grace Note, Thatcher, Bishonen, and Duk; others have raised it elsewhere, including in e-mails to the Committee, and on Jimbo's talk page. He was asked specifically many times whether his reply to Alex Bakharev was truthful. He repeatedly replied that he did not want to give a quick answer, and had no time for a complete one, but that he would reply soon, probably just after Christmas. Since then, he has made a 15,000-word statement to the ArbCom, which has not been made public.
On January 13, 2009, Thatcher posted that FT2 had had at least three opportunities before July 2008 to learn that his edits had been oversighted — Jimbo had e-mailed FT2 about them on December 11, 2007, and FloNight and Peter Damian had e-mailed the ArbCom mailing list about them, which FT2 is a member of, on April 22 and May 2, 2008. See User talk:FT2#Necessary Clarification. In response, FT2 insists that, when he said in July and November 2008 that the first he had heard of the oversighting was in July, he either had not read, or could not remember reading, any of these e-mails.
He is therefore asking the community to believe that he did not request the oversighting of his earliest edits; that David Gerard did not tell him he had oversighted them; that he did not notice they had disappeared; that when Jimbo asked him about them in December 2007, the question was so unmemorable that he quickly forgot about it; that FloNight's and Peter Damian's e-mails about them either went unread or were similarly unmemorable and soon forgotten; and that the extensive discussion about the missing edits on Wikipedia Review, which began on December 21, 2007 — and where FT2 has an account and has been active — also failed to jog his memory. As a result, his statements of July and November 2008 that he knew nothing before July were mistaken, he says, but he believed he was telling the truth. He says he did not remember until December 2008 that he had been told about the oversights in December 2007 by Jimbo.
It is submitted that this version of events does not stand up to scrutiny, that the reluctance to be forthcoming amounts to behavior unbecoming of a member of the ArbCom — as well as a checkuser and oversighter — and that the situation is damaging the Committee. Accordingly, FT2 is asked to resign his seat.
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I don't expect this to be a popular view, but it's my honest interpretation after spending too much time looking over things. I still have confidence in FT2, there's been several incidences where he's lead the ArbCom through some difficult cases and without his participation they wouldn't have been solved (Poetgate springs to mind). The orangemarlin incident was unfortunate, but that was put down to a breakdown in communication from the whole committee, rather than an error of judgement by FT2. Now to the oversights. I respect that FT2 had asked for peoples help regarding the zoophilia edits when the issues first came to light back in December 2007 - he wanted some advice about how to proceed and what to say. I thoroughly believe him when he said that he had no intention to have them oversighted and he did indeed merely want advice of fellow administrators. After the oversight had happened, what really was FT2 supposed to do? Did he even know it had happened until relatively recently? Who Knows. What I do know however is that it wasn't him that oversighted any edits nor asked for them to be oversighted. The buck stops with David Gerrard in my opinion - if there's a problem with the oversight, then he was the person solely responsible for deciding whether the edits warrented removal per the oversight policy. FT2 didn't have the functional tools to oversight the edits and David must therefore have made that crucial decision. For the past few months we've seen the usual suspects pop up to make snide remarks towards FT2 to carry on their tirade against the Arbitration Committee. They don't care about the oversight issue, they just want to lay into a sitting arbitrator because they feel, right or wrongly, let down by the committee. That isn't the way to proceed with things in my opinion and I'd characterise a couple of the users as simple playground bullies using their influence to belittle an arbitrator for ulterior motives. Sorry, that's just wrong in my eyes. FT2 still has my confidence.
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This looks as if it started as a very, very ugly and reprehensible series of comments (which the originator now repudiates)[6] to embarrass FT2 over his involvement in editing an article about a taboo sexual practice that touches on subjects such as animal welfare. Good faith attempts to quietly deprive the attack of oxygen have backfired and it has become a classic "what did he know and when did he know it" affair. I submit that the question is meaningless. FT2 has a right to defend his privacy against such disgusting and scurrilous attacks, and we have a duty to aid him. The details of how we do that should not be used to deflect our gaze from the loathsome and despicable activities being conducted against FT2.
I ask those hounding FT2 to stop now. You have done enough harm to Wikipedia and to FT2.
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All I can say is I can sort of imagine being in this embarrassing position, of having edits you made when you first joined the project come back to haunt you. None of us have (probably) made edits like this, so we don't know what we would do in that situation. I find it hard to believe an oversight would have taken place without the user involved being asked or told of it, but knowing FT2 slightly, I can believe he may not have read some emails, especially if they involved something as painful as this or came during a stressful time. That may not be a personality trait that would effect his ability as an arb, because he obviously was not adjudicating that particular issue. We are supposed to WP:AGF of our fellow editors, and so while we personally may or may not be suspicious to varying degrees, we can't poossibly know the truth, so we should try to believe they aren't lying, or at least have the good of the project at heart. Wikipedia needs a way to remove arbs who aren't constructive. I'm not sure whether this is exceptionally the case with FT2- I'm sure many people are dissatisfied with a few of the individual arbs for various reasons of their own, though several went at the time of the elections. But unless we have been in the same position ourselves, I don't think we can blame FT2 for his actions around this particular issue, as the accusations made were so personal, and at one point I think involved suggestions of attempting to report him to people outside the wiki (though not the police.) I'm not sure if FT2 will stay as an arb- my opinion of arbcom working as a group is low (at least as it existed for most of 2008), and of other parts of the wiki hierarchy is low. So I suppose I'm making another unpopular point that these were very painful circumstances and perhaps shouldn't perhaps be held against FT, who essentially has been rendered an easy target by the accusations over his edits. I'd like to commend SlimVirgin for making this RfC, and Ryan for suggesting it on AN/I, because I agree with Ryan about the bullying that was happening being the wrong way to go. Hopefully this RfC will be an improvement on that, rather than a continuation of it. I'd like to ask FT to reflect on his past and future behaviour, but to wish him well as a person, whether or not he continues as an arb. To me the last straw when it comes to FT being an arb has by no means come, if it were to come it would probably be over one of his erratic actions rather than a lack of action. Sticky Parkin 12:52, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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I have investigated this matter independently and am convinced that there was absolutely nothing wrong with FT2's earliest edits to Zoophilia which are now oversighted. Had the truth of the matter been disclosed promptly, I am convinced that the election results would have been the same. (Moved)
Had FT2 promptly corrected his erroneous or incomplete statements of December 9, 2008, much controversy and disruption would have been avoided. Once a statement is made, there is an obligation to correct it if additional information is subsequently discovered. Privacy concerns or a desire to consult ArbCom are not reasons to delay correcting false statements. At minimum he should have said, "My prior statement was not correct and I will explain why once I get permission to disclose the relevant details."
FT2 should admit that he erred in failing to promptly respond to questions, and in failing to correct mis-statements. He should undertake to do better going forward.
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I have read the material presented by Thatcher, SlimVirgin, FT2 and others. The problem I have in reading it is that Thatcher and Slim's questions seem very simple, and FT2's response seems to be to involve the entire Arbitration Committee and to insist on constructing a watertight case to "defend" himself.
Perhaps this is because the issues themselves are very complex, because the matter involves issues of privacy, embarrassment, or the only recently ceased heated conflict with another editor over this issue. But the questions that are asked are valid ones, and it is a shame that FT2 could not move faster to allay any suspicions of impropriety, and it will doubtless remain to be seen (once the back-and-forth correcting of evidence and interpretation has been completed) what the outcome is. In all instances, however, it is important that we afford FT2 the benefit of the doubt as an editor of Wikipedia.
As an arbitrator, however, we have a problem. The delay has only heightened the sense that there is something to hide, or for excuses to be worked out. This may not be fair - in fact it almost certainly isn't. But in a position of trust, such as that of a sitting Arb, it is more about the perception of propriety, and less the reality. By delaying a response to this issue, FT2 has heightened the perception that something is wrong, which will inevitably taint him in his Arbitration duties. By standing down, and allowing independent examination to examine the evidence, there will be no stigma to him as an editor - indeed it will be viewed by many as an honourable act. By clinging to his position, however, I fear he will ultimately taint the entire Committee.
To summarise: the rights and wrongs of the accusations and the reasons behind them are less pertinent to FT2's position as an arbitrator - the delay in FT2 giving an unambiguous response will cast doubts in the eyes of many of his position of influence within the Arbitration Committee, which will affect the community's perception of the integrity of the Committee as a whole. It is unfortunate, but I see little or no alternative at this late stage. Fritzpoll (talk) 14:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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This RfC is about the wrong topic. Few if any of FT2s harshest critics view the set of problems described above as serious - you'll note that none of them, at any time, have attempted to explain how they impact his role as an arbitrator or why the rest of the community should agree that these lapses are a severe breach of any standard.
FT2 has been involved in a list of contentious cases, and his involvement and positions have provoked a fair amount of outrage in parts of the community. Whether its OrangeMarlin, Peter Damian or Giano... He's angered a lot of people and dismayed a number of others. These issues are a valid basis for an RfC. They are the central, underlying dispute people have with FT2 - not this "gotcha" game of who found what e-mail when. If FT2 has angered you, if you think his judgment has been poor or that you or others have been wronged, then that should be what you raise as the primary subject for discussion when you attempt to convince him to resign - or convince others to dismiss him.
When the final tally of this discussion is compiled, it will be distorted by a concerning phenomena. FT2 has been the recipient of severe criticism for quite some time, and again and again I've seen that editors defending him, or even simply criticising the rhetoric used against him, have been attacked. A thread on FT2s page features some intemperate insults... When one editor attempted to remind others that we have a policy here on Wikipedia about personal attacks, he was described there and elsewhere as sycophantic and stupid. This type of behavior will scare many people away from commenting in this discussion in a way likely to make them the next target for abuse. Avruch T 14:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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There's a lot to wade through here. Unfortunately, FT2's responses to the whole debacle look like attempts to obscure, rather than clarify. But I think we can simply ignore certain parts of the problem. There are two big issues I see here. 1) Anyone with so poor a memory is not suited to the job of being an arbitrator. 2) FT2 has lost the support of a large portion of the community. Whether this is well justified or not, this is a serious problem. He's not able to usefully perform the job under these circumstances. The fact that FT2 apparently refuses to recognize his untenable position means he lacks the sound judgement that arbitrators need to have. Regardless of the merits of the initial dispute, he's adequately demonstrated that he's not suited to the job. Call it a "resignation" if that helps smooth things over, or call it being sacked if that fails. The details of it are unimportant. This is a pretty simple problem to solve- there's no reason it should be difficult or time-consuming. Friday (talk) 16:42, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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The long and the short of this matter, ignoring rights, wrongs, lies and truths, is that FT2's position is now untenable; this is a situation he has created for himself by evasion and prevarication over an unnecessarily prolonged period. By clinging to power he is damaging both the new Arbcom and the project in the eyes of many. He now needs to be judged as he has, all too willingly, judged others. He needs to resign and let the air in on this regrettable case.
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I'm finding it hard, coming to this matter cold, to understand exactly what this dispute is about or with whom I agree or disagree -- or even if I care about the central issue. However, after following this matter from WP:RfAr to WP:AN/I to here, it is clear that this matter is beginning to spiral out of control, & as time goes on more people are being drawn into this dispute. If the original motivation was to minimize Wikidrama, then at this point the only solution to accomplish this is for FT2 to resign from the ArbCom. I'm not implying that he did anything wrong: I'm saying that if FT2 believes in the goals of the project, then he needs to take a bullet for it. As all of us would be expected do to.
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1. FT2 made some cringeworthy POV edits. FT2 is guilty of bad editorial judgement. 2. Aggrieved off-site trolling went on, linking to the edits. 3. David Gerard oversighted the edits. Actually, they should simply have been (at most) deleted - oversight was overkill. But he's admitted that mistake. 4. When it came to light (but before it was a big deal) FT2 made a statement that was inaccurate about when he knew. Not so good, but he was embarrassed, and it was some months/years after the event. 5. The episode was exploited mainly by people who had motives to "get back" at arbcom, or drag oversight/checkusers over the coals (Gerard had wrongly checkusered Giano, Slim had been in a long running dispute with arbcom and checkusers). Others politicised the debate, or deliberately stoked drama over fairly minor things. 6. FT2 has been foolishly tardy in clarifying his statement - allowing people to make hay of the affair and stoke the drama further.
At points 1, 4 (perhaps) and particularly 6, FT2 has been guilty of poor judgement, but this pales into insignificance compared to the nasty, exploitative and bad faith politicising of this by people who should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
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I know little about FT2. However, it's apparent that many editors are unsatisfied with his conduct in office. Perhaps a recall method is required for Arbitrators. GoodDay (talk) 19:17, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The information presently available reflects badly on FT2. However, other members of the Arbitration Committee have indicated that additional information is likely to be forthcoming in the not too distant future, and so judgments as final as requests for resignation (which, based on the presently-available information, may well be warranted) should be suspended.
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Wikipedia allows anonymous user accounts. The only way the community has to judge these editors is the contribution history connected to that account. FT2's contribution history was altered during an election to remove possibly embarrassing edits. It doesn't matter what the edits were or if the oversighting changed the outcome of the election. What matters is that the oversight tool was abused to undermine the fairness of an election. It took away from the community the ability to judge a candidate and make a fair and informed vote. This can't be allowed to stand if the Wikipedia community wants fair elections.
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Most of us can date the beginning of our concerns regarding FT2 to l'Affair Orangemarlin. FT2 posted a startling announcement, then Kirill Lokshin came by shortly afterward to say that FT2 was running on his own steam. Developments in any high drama action are a bit hard to follow, but both Kirill's and FT2's subsequent statements shifted to narrow that gap, then the Committee officially called the Orangemarlin debacle a collective error. One thing can be said for certain: FT2 didn't balk at making the announcement. But beyond that, where does the balance of responsibility really belong? Has the Committee covered for FT2 or has he taken the brunt of the blame rather than point fingers? More importantly, how did things get to that impasse within the Committee and what have they learned from it?
The community hasn't forgotten those questions. As long as they remain unanswered a cloud remains over FT2's head. This has made him a lightning rod for concerns and impeded his effectiveness at other endeavors. Is he the problem or the fall guy?
Another thing is clear: his communication style is not one that handles this ambiguity well. Depending on one's perspective, he either goes over as longwinded and dodgy or meticulous but a rather hard read. His talents are better suited to internal reports for a small audience than to general announcements or crisis management.
Holding off on a final opinion because the concerns stated above and the Oversight matter really leave too much out of view. I await the Committee's action.
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I've just read pages and pages of rubbish on this stuff, much of it mentioning me, and no-one's actually asked me any direct questions as yet. So I thought I'd answer them anyway.
I first met FT2 when the arbcom election was in full swing. FT2 had barely shown up on my radar before then. I believe I greeted FT2 with "Haha, you're going straight to ArbCom. HERE'S YOUR SHOVEL." which is my usual greeting to new arbs. The votes were making it a dead cert FT2 would be on the arbcom, and so it came to be.
The oversighted edit should have been single-revision deleted. This was because Peter Damian was using it in a trolling post attempting to paint FT2 as a bestialist. Jimbo asked me about it afterwards and I went "good Lord, should have been a deletion not an oversight, I shall be more careful in future." Jimbo concurred that single-rev deletion to quash obnoxious WR-sourced idiot trolling like this was quite in order. And I was and have been more careful, and that was the end of it. Until Peter Damian got in with Giano, who appears to now consider Wikipedia Review regulars to be reliable and trustworthy sources. I'm sure that will work out well. (Oddly, I understand Giano previously emailed FT2 about this exact matter and was satisfied at the time. I'm sure Giano can find this email in his records; if not, I'm sure FT2 can put it up with full headers, with Giano's permission of course.)
Summary: this is an idiot tempest driven by a banned WR troll and Giano's wounded sensibilities. Just because the wiki's biggest smoke machines are furiously pumping out clouds doesn't actually imply there's a fire.
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There is something I don't understand here. I deleted the post (and its links, obviously) on Dec 6 2007. Why did Gerard delete it on the 7th? I was in continuous contact with WJBSCribe, trying to clean up the mess, and it was sorted out by the end of Thursday 6th. Who told Gerard about the links? They were deleted late on the 7th (I have a chronology). How did Gerard know? Peter Damian (talk) 23:23, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
[edit] There are many other inaccuracies on this page. Peter Damian (talk) 23:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
[edit] The biggest inaccuracy being the idea that the edits were deleted because (oneof them) was linked to from a blog. (1) The blog post in question was deleted before the oversights took place. That makes Gerard's story a complete lie. (2) One of the edits deleted was not linked to by the blog. Why did Gerard delete that? This part of the story has yet to be told
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I am grateful for David Gerard above detailing the interaction between Peter Damian and FT2 at the time of the election; PD was sanctioned for drawing attention to some unfortunate edits by FT2, which were then oversighted, and the ongoing election to ArbCom. It is a period, and a matter of the content of the edits, for which FT2 has not only failed to provide any distinct comment, but also a percieved reluctance to acknowledge that there are concerns that should be answered.
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There seem to be a variety of different issues at hand here. There seem to two separate but interrelated issues which are causing concern: First, there is concern about FT2's actions in regard to the oversighted edits. Second, there is concern about FT2's actions as an arbitrator.
First, in regard to the oversighted edits: No one is questioning David Gerard's conduct at all. Second, the oversighting itself was not a big deal. Nor was the initial lack of discussion. What was an issue is that it many users think that FT2 either evaded answering questions about the matter or lied outright. Thatcher's analysis of that matter is hard to ignore. It looks like FT2 lied about what he knew when and then attempted to avoid coming clean in this regard. This apparent lack of honesty by FT2 has reduced his credibility with many people in the community. To use a possibly tired analogy, it often isn't the crime that's the problem but the coverup. In this case, there doesn't seem to have been any substantial crime, but FT2's subsequent actions were not helpful.
This controversy over the oversighted edits cannot be dismissed as some have attempted to do so as being simply part of a trolling campaign by WR and Giano. Many long-standing editors and most notably Thatcher have expressed serious concern. And let us not forget that this most recent phase of this debacle occurred because Bishonen blocked FT2 over this matter. Discounting these concerns is not accurate.
Second, there is concern over FT2's actions as an arbitrator. The two most prominent examples of these concerns are the Orangemarlin debacle and FT2's actions in regard to the motion to desysop Slimvirgin. I will not go into great detail about those two situations beyond the most relevant facts.
In the Orangemarlin case, FT2 published with no prior warning an ArbCom decision concering Orangemarlin with notes that no ArbCom member had objected to any of the findings. This case concerned primarily User:Orangemarlin who was given no warning that such a case was occurring and was given no ability to offer evidence or response. After the ArbCom disowned this action, a later statement was made by the ArbCom that the matter was not FT2's fault but rather due to unspecified communication failures in the committee. Many editors found this claim not credible. Moreover, editors expressed concern that FT2 thought that it was at all reasonable that a secret case about an editor's conduct could occur with no input from that editor until after the ArbCom was done.
Shortly thereafter, FT2's actions caused further questions about his suitability for the ArbCom. In particular, after Slimvirgin undid a block of FT2, FT2 filed an ArbCom case requesting that she be desysopped. This was not a problem. What was a problem was that FT2 thought that he did not need to recuse himself from hearing the case. FT2 said that "On principle, I will be considering the level to which I am involved or otherwise, and whether I can consider myself acting neutrally in the case as a result, and whether recusal is appropriate. I am fairly sure I am not involved to that extent, but I would like to take a little time and consider carefully." Many editors, including myself, were disturbed that FT2 could think that he could be reasonably impartial in such a situation (although he did eventually recuse himself). Moreoever, even if FT2 were some saintly individual, the problem of the appearance of conflict would be so massive as to be a problem by itself. This should not have been a situation that required any thinking at all.
Both the Orangemarlin case and the Slimvirgin recusal issue raise serious questions about FT2's judgment as an arbitrator. The apparent dishonesty about the oversighted edits does not help matters.
Obviously, FT2 is very good at certain tasks. His actions in regard to the Poetlister matter demonstrated extreme patience and careful investigation and he should be commended for that work. However, he can continue to do so such work just as well as a checkuser and admin without being on the ArbCom. It is thus misleading to point to that work as strong evidence that he should continue to be on the ArbCom. At this point, many different members of the community are not happy with FT2 for a variety of different reasons. The fact that FT2 has done little to acknowledge this discontent does not help matters. JoshuaZ (talk) 22:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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When I first heard of this issue in mid-2008, I assumed it was a highly private matter that had concluded under normal circumstances. Everyone with knowledge of privacy matters (the oversighters and arbcom for instance) were not publicly calling for anything, so it was rather easy to dismiss concerns from people who did not have access to those tools. As time went on though, more and more concerns came to light, and were not answered in a satisfactory matter. Even into December 2008 I held out hope that some highly complex privacy issue was all that stood in the way of explaining something that seemed rather simple (the who, what, when, and where of the oversights in question). However, I now must join the chorus of those saying FT2 needs to explain, in simple terms, what he did and knew and when.
That David has come forward and explained his part, Jimbo has explained his knowledge of events, and at least one oversighter has given out a copy of the log is encouraging to the extent of those who are trusted with handling oversight compliance actually functioning in their role. That it took so long for what appears to an outsider to be a simple matter is concerning, but that is for another time and place. I therefore add to the call that there is no matter more important for FT2 to perform on Wikipedia at this time other than to respond to the questions laid out in this RFC.
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Do I understand David correctly that it is his and Jimbo's position that a valid use of revision deletion (if not necessarily oversight) is to remove things from an editor's own past history that he is now embarrassed about, because a critic is referring to them? This hardly seems like a reasonable thing to do in a site predicated on openness and transparency. In the BADSITES wars of a couple of years ago, Gerard had a position more sane and reasonable than many, but here he's just fanning the flames of hysteria, "Look what those evil, evil attack sites are making us do!"
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This doesn't matter. None of this matters. Content matters. If anyone's conduct has ended up adversely affecting encyclopedia content, then we should take them to task. But the way this RfC is going it looks like it's a bunch of people caught up in a contest to decide who is the biggest and bestest Wikipedian. That's the stupidest contest I can imagine. I suggest the people who are most involved take a deep breath, take a step back, think about which encyclopedia articles were affected by this drama, and then let us know. If they cannot point to specific problems, then bury the hatchet.
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FT2 has resigned his seat on the arbitration committee, until such time as he can receive (in his words) "a fair hearing with appropriate gravitas." See Open letter from FT2. This did not result in the immediate closure of the RfC because the resignation has not been made explicitly permanent. However, Jimbo Wales has stated: "My view is that he has resigned, honorably, and that he may run for office again in the future." See Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/FT2#View by Jimbo Wales. Therefore this RfC can be held to have accomplished its goal, and can be closed.--Aervanath talks like a mover, but not a shaker 19:47, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]