< May 24 May 26 >

May 25, 2006

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. IceKarmaॐ 02:47, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Major_programming_languages[edit]

Template:Major_programming_languages (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
"Major" "Industrial" "Academic" are unverifiable categories masquerading as navigation. It's clear from the archived "Language inclusion criteria I" discussions that this was understood to be excessively subjective, but that was excused on the ground that "the function of the box is not to make claims but to aid navigation". It's clear from those archived discussions that they considered destroying the template in Dec 2004 but didn't because no one had complained! As a reader all I can tell is that these languages are claimed to be "Major", some are claimed to be "Industrial" (whatever that means), some are claimed to be "Academic" (whatever that means), and others defy this unverifiable dichotomy. If "Major" "Industrial" "Academic" are part of a desirable classification then define those categories, and say what they mean. IsaacGouy 21:37, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My suggestion would be to remove the classification from the template rather than deleting the template itself. Henrik 18:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
How do we remove the arbitrary classification into "Major" and ... without removing the template? IsaacGouy 21:39, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The template get frequently misused by fans of this or that language, provides no valuable info (like how or why is the language major), only fools the people with incorrect. I would like to add that real world Isaac Gouy (the nominator) is expert on programming languages and not just some random Wikipedian without clue (check his name by Google). Pavel Vozenilek 22:18, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It is sort of amusing that most of JohnnyBGood's contribution feels like intentional disrupting of Wikipedia, on edge of RfC. Pavel Vozenilek 22:54, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That seemed very much like a personal attack to me which is in violation of WP:NPA. Might want to watch yourself there, especially since that comment is totally baseless. Where does it say I can't voice my opinion on a VFU? JohnnyBGood t c 16:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How long until voting is closed? Ideogram 02:04, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say in about 4 to 5 days. —Ruud 14:14, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's been 4 days. Can we shoot the damn thing already? Ideogram 15:19, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

None of the "keep" votes addresses the problem of maintaining the stability of the template. Ideogram 22:12, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The exact same way we maintain the stability of George W. Bush.--Prosfilaes 20:38, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me semi-permanent semi-protection is very controversial, not to be taken as a proactive measure, and only to be used as a last resort. Ideogram 21:38, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Even if we solve the stability problem, we have no consensus on what belongs in the template, and we don't have a way to reach one. Ideogram 23:49, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. - Mailer Diablo 21:29, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:OntarioLegislatureCopyright[edit]

Template:OntarioLegislatureCopyright (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. - Mailer Diablo 14:47, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:User Elitist[edit]

Template:User Elitist (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
This template was previously speedied as T1. DRV consensus determined that this speedy was inappropriate, and that the template deserved full debate here. This is a procedural relisting, so I abstain. Xoloz 15:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. - Mailer Diablo 14:47, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:User Ideal Dictator[edit]

Template:User Ideal Dictator (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
This template was previously speedied as T1. DRV consensus determined that this speedy was inappropriate, and that the template deserved full debate here. This is a procedural relisting, so I abstain. Xoloz 15:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. IceKarmaॐ 03:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:John316[edit]

Template:John316 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
User:Wombdpsw created this Template:John316 while there is already Template:User_Christian. This John-template opens the gates to creating also Template:John001 to Template:John315 and Template:Mark000 etc. This is generally unwelcome and specifically not according to WP:userbox policy. There are no users using this template. Not even the creator of this template uses it. Unpover 07:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note that the creator of this template has been identified as a sock puppeteer [1] and a banned user. --Gorgonzilla 19:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if I might explain to the uninitiated what this is about. John 3:16 reads (in the Authorised Version) "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This is clearly central to Christian belief, and some would regard it as the most important verse in the Bible. Users of this box presumably agree with that view and are distinguishing between themselves and others. --Runcorn 19:23, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
NOTE - The creator of this template User:Wombdpsw has been identified as a notorious vandal using many usernames before. He's been blocked indefinitely: clerk's report. -- ActiveSelective 06:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have made the correction to ((Template:User John316)) Wombdpsw 05:47, 27 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Your comments are interesting to me. But, I am wondering if you actually looked at the template? As written by me it says "This user is a John 3:16 Bible Believer". The user box itself says nothing whatsoever about Christianity or religion. As to your comment about Romans 13:1, I don't see how that applies here. I am not asserting myself to be a Romans 13:1 Bible Believer, so that argument does not apply to me. In fact, I don't see any argument here at all. This particular user box is about as harmless and innocuous as one can get. Sorry you have been offended by it. But, as I see it, John 3:16 is not something to be offended about. I ask that you table your dismay and not attempt to apply theoretical arguments against this simple and harmless user box. → Wombdpsw - @ ← 01:18, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So you do not believe in Romans 13:1? (do we want such discussions on wikipedia?)
Point 3 is that we'll be having dozens and dozens of userboxes crawling around, for every bible or quran verse one, all because the John-template is being allowed. -- ActiveSelective 07:48, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The reason why you would even ask such a question is that you have the mistaken understanding that everyone who reads or likes or believes any aspect of the Bible is accountable to everyone else for all aspects of the Bible or is otherwise somehow a "Christian", etc. For example, with your logic as expressed above, if I had a user box that said "This user believes that East Los Angeles is wonderful", you would ask me "So are you saying you don't like Compton?" It's the same thing here. My user box says one thing about one small thing. But User:ActiveSelective, you are trying to expand that to a controversy where none exists. Active, I will also point out that there is great potential to logically expand upon the themes of the user boxes you are using yourself. In fact, along the lines of your Malcom X, Lenin, Trotsky boxes, why not Bella Abzug, Eull Gibbons, Lynette Fromme, Carlos Castaneda, Oliver Sacks, etc. etc. etc. Certainly there are just as many people for whom article referencing user boxes could be created as there are Bible verses. Why are you only on guard against the risk of faith oriented boxes expanding in number, but not secular biography boxes? Are you sure that you are not letting your personal world view color your arguments here? → Wombdpsw - @ ← 16:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize. I'm very sorry that I haven't read or heard of Abzug, Gibbons, Fromme, Castaneda, Sacks, etc. etc. etc. I am also sorry that, accordingly, I haven't put them in userboxes either. About my last contrib above, I apologize for having asked you whether you believe in Romans 13:1, when you probably must have skipped that chapter or don't like that part at all. To me, it seemed only a natural question to ask since you wrote "I am not asserting myself to be a Romans 13:1 Bible Believer" (see above) while you assert yourself to be a John 3:16 believer so strongly. I must have been mistaken thinking such question is normal. Finally, I admit, I am probably letting my personal world view color your arguments here. I am glad you are not. You're not partisan but only objectively defending this template.
Now back to serious. Being brought up in a loving Roman Catholic family, I know how to appreciate religion and the Holy Script. I might have fallen from my believe, but I can see in my parents eyes that religion gives them "a heart in a heartless world, a soul in soulless conditions" (words from Marx) and therefore I won't mess with their sacred "opium" which makes them forget unhappy times. I am glad they have something to rely on and something to look forward to. I hope you believe me when I say that it is not my current atheism which makes me say "delete this template". I never objected to religious articles on wikipedia before. It is only the consideration that this template will lead to a mess on wikipedia, because it is an example for making many many more, and because it is argumentative. Look at you and me being unfriendly here over a question on Romans 13:1. Isn't that silly? My prediction is already becoming reality.
I think I made my points very clear. This was my last contrib to this discussion. -- ActiveSelective 18:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It will onlyt be a mess if editors such as Gorgonzilla (see below) make unsubstanted personal attacks or other editors refuse to objectively discuss. My point to you is that your fear of a growing "verse" user box portfolio applies equally to a "notable person" user box portfolio. There are at least as many notable people with notable ideas as there are Bible or Koran verses. Your uses boxes can honestly be objectively said to have no distingusihing features which make them distinct from this one. If you don't quit this dialog, I can show that to you via reason and logic. → Wombdpsw - @ ← 21:15, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Are you disputing the fact that the check user determined that you are Merecat? I note that you do not make an outright denial. The allegation has in fact been been substantiated by others. If you wish to dispute those findings you must first deny them. Most biblical scholars would agree that an attempt to deceive is morally no different from a lie. --Gorgonzilla 21:41, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rather than make unstubstantiated assertions, why don't you provide a link to the so-called "check-user" which says that I am a sockpuppet. I deny that I am a sockpuppet. Please stop saying that. It's a personal attack. → Wombdpsw - @ ← 21:46, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok here is the link to the clerks report [2]. The clerk is of the opinion that Wombdpsw is a sock of Merecat. Incidentally the original report was there before I made the allegation, there has since been a second report. Moreover whoever is behind that nym if they did turn out to be someone else is certainly up to no good since the IP is registered to a hosting company. What you were really offended by was the fact you were found out so quickly. If you did not have such obvious contempt for the intelligence of others you might be able to develop a persona that was not so transparent. Zero might be a willing accomplice, more likely he is someone who took you at your word and is now going to be furious with you for the deception. I don't think that this style of operation is generally considered acceptable or honorable within the GOP. Unfortunately there appears to be a hardcore element that does consider such tactics justifiable. It was hardly coincidental that the entries Merecat spent his time trying to whitewash were those describing the criminal activities of this precise element. As for the John reference, you would do better to consider Matthew 7, in particular 7:3 but the whole chapter. --Gorgonzilla 19:07, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Again Gorgonzilla misrepresents the facts: I have not been "identified" as a sockpuppet of anyone. Rather some users with an apparent, but clearly misplaced, axe to grind are accusing me of being one. I have denied being a sockpuppet and I regarding Gorgon, I am asking him again to please stop makin personal attacks. → Wombdpsw - @ ← 03:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As I see it, a single post to a closely associated talk page cannot reasonably be characterized as "spamming". In my view, characterizations along those lines reek of mendacity. → Wombdpsw - @ ← 03:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Wombdpsw, there's no reason to get all bent out of shape about one message on one talk page. I also don't see any problem with deleting that message as irrelevant on that talk page. -GTBacchus(talk) 03:32, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Good. The irrelevant contrib gets deleted. (Honestly, I didn't like reporting this. It seemed necessary, though, in order to prevent the very userbox war the user's contrib is steering at. Next thing could be someone else putting the same contrib to the Atheism or Satanism page; that shouldn't be done either.) My problem is exactly with this being a template. Yep, I am cool with whatever believe makes other people happy. -- ActiveSelective 04:44, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
NOTE - The creator of this template User:Wombdpsw has been identified as a notorious vandal using many usernames before. He's been blocked indefinitely: clerk's report. -- ActiveSelective 07:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Flowerparty☀ 14:54, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:NYCS Brighton far north[edit]

Template:NYCS Brighton far north (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Not used in any New York City Subway articles, which was its intended purpose. Should never be used in the future, either, since I am reworking the service template system. — Larry V (talk) 03:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Flowerparty☀ 14:54, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:NYCS Brighton far north local[edit]

Template:NYCS Brighton far north local (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
See above nomination for NYCS Brighton far north. — Larry V (talk) 03:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Flowerparty☀ 14:54, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:NYCS Brighton far north express[edit]

Template:NYCS Brighton far north express (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
See above nomination for NYCS Brighton far north. — Larry V (talk) 03:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
More