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Search totals capped at 10,000

For over a year, I have used insource regex searching intensively. One of its most valuable features was that it gave a total number of matches.

My search for untagged, unbracketed bare URLs is insource:/\<ref( [^\>]*)?\>https?:\/\/[^ \<\>\{\}]+ *\<\/ref/i. Until this evening, it was reporting a total of ~44K hits. Now it always reports 10,000.

This is a real loss of utility. It deprives me of my main tool for monitoring progress in between the twice-monthly database downloads.

Why has this happened? BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:10, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We are in the process of upgrading from Elasticsearch 6.8.23 to Elasticsearch 7.10.2. This behavior changed in ES7; now queries are early-stopped at a count of 10,000 to save CPU time.
Previously, while the number of actual documents returned would never be more than 10,000, it would still return the full count (the ~44k hits you were seeing).
It sounds like there's a setting we can flip to switch the count behavior back to how it was previously.
We'll have a phabricator task up for this in a bit so I'll circle back to edit this response with a link to that ticket in a little bit.
Thanks for reporting the behavior change, it's very helpful for us to get a feel for users' workflows. RKemper (WMF) (talk) 22:41, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And that ticket is T317374. :) Legoktm (talk) 22:42, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, @Legoktm & @RKemper (WMF).
The full count is really useful for many tasks. I use it many times a day for that search, but also as many times again for various other regex searches. It's great to be able to ask "how big is this issue" and get a prompt answer. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:09, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I know we're not supposed to say "Me too" on Phab, so here it is in the right place: "Me too!" This feature is invaluable. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:28, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jonesey95. Might want to click "Award Token" on Phab and give it a thumbs up. That's an un-spammy way to support a ticket. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 23:59, 8 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, this is a feature I was using. I just found out that it was capped today so like @Jonesey95 and @BrownHairedGirl have said it would be helpful for the total count to show, even if it doesn't reutrn more than 10,000 results (like it did in the past). Rlink2 (talk) 13:28, 9 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Circling back here: we've merged a patch that should restore the previous count behavior. This patch won't go live until the next backport deploy or deployment train. Our current goal is to get it out during the Monday Sep 12 US backport window, so if you all haven't heard anything by Tuesday US time, feel free to ping me/us again here or on IRC (#wikimedia-search) for an update. RKemper (WMF) (talk) 18:57, 9 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Many thanks, @RKemper (WMF), both for your prompt action on this and for your courtesy throughout. I look fwd to the fix. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:11, 9 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Update: We've rolled out the new setting. I tried @BrownHairedGirl's query and can confirm I see the full 44k+ hits listed. RKemper (WMF) (talk) 07:26, 13 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the rollout, @RKemper (WMF).
The full count is indeed being listed, @RKemper (WMF). Thanks for you work on this.
However this has confirmed another problem which I had glimpsed in the past week: that the new search is much more susceptible to timeouts.
Before the switch to Elasticsearch 7, my bare URLs search timed out only very occasionally, and only at periods of peak load, i.e. 2100–0600
However, now my bare URLs search times out on nearly every attempt. Even at 1000 UTC, I still had to try three times to get a full set, without timeout.
The behaviour within AWB is even more annoying. Since May 2022, I have at least once every day (and more often 2-3 times) used exactly that same search within AWB, to generate lists to feed to @Citation bot. It always produced 1,000 hits the maximum permitted by AWB; never any less, in hundreds of uses. But since the arrival of Elasticsearch 7, about half of those with-AWB searches return less than 1,000 hits; only morning-time UTC and early afternoon is safe. I presume that is because the search has timed out.
Note that my current bare URLs search was adopted only when the number of unbracketed, untagged bare URLs dipped below about 110,000. Before that, it timed out, so I used a crude, less complete search which excludes named refs: insource:/\<ref\>https?:\/\/[^ \<\>\{\}+\s*\<\/ref/i]
So Elasticsearch 7 is causing my current search to timeout at less than half the hit count which caused the Elasticsearch 6 to timeout.
What exactly are the upsides of Elasticsearch 7? I see only significantly degraded performance, with no benefits. Have I missed something? BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:01, 13 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Using Elasticsearch 6 blocks the use of PHP 8 (see the task chain), which constitutes a security concern as PHP 7 goes out of support soon. Elasticsearch 6 is also not supported by today's and/or tomorrow's OS vendors, which constitutes its own separate security concern. Nearly all version bumps where the feature set is not advertised widely are due to security at the end of the day. Izno (talk) 15:22, 13 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, @Izno. I accept that security concerns will be a driving factor.
But the result of this security fix is a significant fall in performance. It would be helpful to know what processes are underway to identify and implement measures to offset the performance hit, so that users do not lose functionality. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:48, 13 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RKemper (WMF): any chance of an comment on whether there is a process to offset the performance hit?
Some of my other work is badly hit by this. For example, I am cleaning up the remaining bare URLs on some top-level domains. I have already done .pk, .si, .ua, .int and .ie. Now I am back to working on .fr, but since the upgrade to Elasticsearch 7 my search insource:/\<ref( [^\>]*)?\>https?:\/\/[^\/ \<\>\{\}]+?\.fr\/[^ \<\>\{\}]+ *\<\/ref/i times out more often than not. Before the upgrade, it never timed out. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:41, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Part of the upgrade requires switching traffic to a single cluster while we upgrade the other. At the moment, the search traffic is going to our secondary datacenter (codfw). This leads to higher load on the cluster and higher latency due to traffic between datacenters. I'm not confident that this is the only reason, there might well be use cases where Elasticsearch 7 has lower performances than Elasticsearch 6. But it make sense to wait until the migration is fully completed before investigating this further. You can check the progress on this Phab task: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T308676.
GLederrey (WMF) (talk) GLederrey (WMF) (talk) 14:58, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for that clarification, @GLederrey (WMF). That reduced capacity during switchover makes sense, and I am sure that it is at least part of the reason for the performance hit.
Thanks for the Phab link, but I don't have the headspace to learn all the complexities of managing a huge server system. I think its much better for me to leave that in the capable hands of those professionals like yourself and @RKemper (WMF) who specialise in such things.
May I assume from your reply that when the upgrade is complete someone (or some team) within WMF tech will remain "seized of the matter" (as diplomats say) and follow through on performance tests, and plan any necessary remedies? BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:12, 21 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Elasticsearch 7 features

After RKemper (WMF)'s helpful comments about the upgrade from Elasticsearch 6.8.23 to Elasticsearch 7.10.2, I did a quick google for docs on changes in functionality. However, all I found was a cluster of pages on the Elasticsearch website which extolled the software's virtues for sysops, such as more compact logfiles. Nothing about users.

Is there any documentation of any changes for users of the search?

For example, I would love the search to support Perl-style shorthand character classes such as \s, \S, \d, and \b. (I have a crush on \b). That would eliminate some tedious conversion and debugging when I take a regex from a Perl script or a C# AWB custom module to use in an insource search (or vice versa), as I often do for sanity checks.

Does the upgrade bring any such changes to the construction and/or reliability of regex searches? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:39, 9 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The regex support is actually provided by Lucene, which does not provide full regex support. Elasticsearch documents their regex support for v7 on this documentation page. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 08:21, 9 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, @TheDJ. That link is very helpful ... unlike the half-arsed version of regex which it implements. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:33, 9 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

DiscussionTools Beta Feature update

Almost like this, but with no arrows by the new Reply link
Almost like this, but with no arrows by the new Reply link

The Beta Feature for DiscussionTools is supposed to get some updates this month. You can see "everything" at these links:

The bit that will actually reach the Beta Feature is what the team calls "topic containers". It's just the stuff around the ==Section heading==, not the stuff at the top of the page or the stuff in Vector 2022's new Table of Contents. You'll need to login if you want to see the new subscribe button.

I post this here so you'll know what's going on if someone asks you what caused the talk pages to look different. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:53, 13 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Whatamidoing, put this in Tech News. @Klein Muçi already asked me about this redesign on 19 August, thinking my script was responsible for it.Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 04:33, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This has been in Tech/News off and on for about two months already. This particular set of changes is already in the Beta Feature everywhere except enwiki, dewiki, and jawiki at this point. There are two more sets of changes coming up for desktop users.
(I'm in a scheduling meeting right now. It sounds like this change won't happen here until Wednesday, 21 September at the earliest, and the next set has just been delayed until mid-October except for arwiki, huwiki and cswiki.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:01, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Whatamidoing, this is only tangentially related to the subject but I had a question that has been bothering me for a while now: Why do we have an inverted kebab menu on the notifications only for it to show the unsubscribe button? I have the impression these kinds of menus are saved for multi-entries dropdowns. There's plenty of room there, why not just have the unsubscribe button directly there instead of hiding it inserted in a cupboard? — Klein Muçi (talk) 09:34, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If memory serves, when they made that decision, they were considering the possibility of a second item for the menu (a link to Echo/Notification preferences, maybe?). It hasn't been added, but they didn't go back to change it afterwards. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:02, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Whatamidoing, I see... I wish that one of the two options you mention was provided already. Maybe when this update goes live. Taking the unsubscribe button out of the cupboard under the stairs looks straightforward and easy enough, even if that's only a temporary solution. — Klein Muçi (talk) 10:43, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sad that this is going to be out without making the headings more accessible, see the task on Phabricator. @Whatamidoing, can you confirm to me that projects that have enabled this by default would not receive this feature in its current state without their explicit approval? stjn 09:31, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Stjn, good to hear I'm not alone on this.. "Putting discussion activity inside the header, yet displaying it below it. Great job. Thanks DT."
Needless to say, my script inserts discussion activity after the header.Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:12, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've pinged the PM about that Phab task. I'm not sure that I understand the problem, but it sounded like something might need to be fixed on the mobile site before they could fix this.
(There are zero wikis that have enabled this by default.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:35, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry, I wasn’t really clear, I was asking about wikis where DiscussionTools itself is enabled by default. stjn 23:02, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
DiscussionTools itself is not enabled by default at any wiki. You will find it in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures at all wikis.
Certain sub-features of DiscussionTools (e.g., the very popular Reply tool) are enabled by default at all wikis. The "whole package" is not enabled by default anywhere. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:07, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for offline ping @Whatamidoing (WMF).
...without making the headings more accessible, see the task on Phabricator.
hi @Stjn 👋🏼 I appreciate you raising this issue (T314714) here.
You doing so was the reminder I needed to prioritize better understanding the effort and complexity involved with addressing T13555, which seems to be the underlying issue which causes phab:T314714.
You can expect a ping from me here, or on T314714, in the next couple of weeks with what I was able to figure out.
In the meantime, I've asked a clarifying question about the impact of T314714 on the ticket.
Of course, please let me know if any of the above brings new thoughts/questions to mind. PPelberg (WMF) (talk) 00:31, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Missing text in page preview

The page preview for Remember (Walking in the Sand) has missing text. In the first sentence, the "(Walking in the Sand)" does not appear, making the sentence appear illogical. Note that it does appear properly in WP:POPUPS, which I have enabled on my account; I noticed the bug while I was browsing logged out. Home Lander (talk) 14:28, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is this a bug? It seems to be intended that text enclosed in parentheses doesn't display in preview mode; it's certainly been that way as long as I've been browsing as an IP. In this particular case it causes a problem, but usually it just eliminates unnecessary detail from the quick preview (like the birth/death dates at Alexander Gardner or the pronunciation details from Himalayas). (talk) 14:49, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Home Lander: seems like this is related to the undesirable handling of parentheses described in phab:T263932, you can update that to include more use-cases such as titles that have literal parentheses in them. — xaosflux Talk 15:10, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
First time I've heard of this - so I tried logging out, going to Remember (Walking in the Sand), clicking the "Edit" tab and then the Show preview button. I see text in parentheses, no problem. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Redrose64 that's not the "preview" they are talking about. Log out (or just open a private browsing tab) to this page, and mouse-over the page link; look at the pop-up preview. — xaosflux Talk 11:41, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Would that be Navigation popups: article previews and editing functions pop up when hovering over links? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:14, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Redrose64 that one is mw:Extension:Popups. — xaosflux Talk 18:30, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What happens if a blocked IP tries to register for an account?

I presume if it's a static IP that they won't be able to register. But what happens if it's dynamie? Doug Weller talk 15:24, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Doug Weller seems a little bit WP:BEANSy. It sort of depends in what order things occur, and how cookies are handled by the client. If an IP is blocked, then the next time someone visits us they have a new IP - we usually won't know they are the same person and the block won't apply. There are all sorts of other situations that could overlap: if user accounts are involved, if someone visits while they are blocked, and with range blocks. — xaosflux Talk 17:23, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Xaosflux more or less what I assumed. I wonder how often it happens that an editor escapes an IP block. Doug Weller talk 17:33, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not really BEANSy, though, because this grew out of a RW situation with a temp-blocked, non-vandal IP user, to whom I recommended registering for an account (diff ). But then on second thought, I reverted myself (diff ), considering the possible socky look of following that advice. The underlying question in this story, is: "Should one avoid recommending registration to a temp blocked, good-faith user?" No guideline says not to, and neither does ((Register)). Fuller backstory details here. Mathglot (talk) 00:42, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Doug Weller: When I shut my Wifi off or get away from the Wifi's signal, my cell phone has a dynamic IP that's currently under a rangeblock. If I try to register an account, I receive "Account creation error" followed by standard templates that the IP address or range is currently blocked; and shows who issued the block and the reason (currently there are global and local blocks on the range I'm assigned at the moment). Home Lander (talk) 13:51, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

TOC problems

 – This bug was resolved upstream. — xaosflux Talk 13:56, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Was: Discussion page TOCs might be disappearing soon

Just a heads up. This issue recently affected Wiktionary, and is also affecting other Wikimedia sites upgraded to 1.40.0-wmf.1, e.g. d:Wikidata:Project chat (before vs after), s:Wikisource:Scriptorium (before vs after). It's apparent that the WMF does not consider this a blocker to upgrading. OTOH, maybe they'll fix it first and EnWP will be spared. (talk) 16:42, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

External link icon update

Hi all, Volker E. here, I'm Design Lead at the Wikimedia Foundation Product Design team and would like to provide an update to the external link icon discussion earlier on WP:VPR.

When rolled out initially, we didn't catch pixel issues on lo-dpi screens. Additionally, the old icon version featured long-standing usability issue: it was not sizing up when users increase text zoom (a common accessibility feature in use) in their browser preferences. We've seen your request on VPR and have recognized the problem statement. We then fixed the technical issues being behind vast majority of replies. And we've taken inputs by volunteers to improve the icon for better recognizability from the original proposal. For the subsequent changes on the icon itself and for future icon rollouts, we've set out a longer testing window with more explicit testing strategy.

Our goal has been to provide a unified icon collection with quality characteristics for several years now. Among the characteristics are

Other high visibility icons, such as 'search', 'user avatar', 'watchlist', 'edit' (pencil) or the 'language' icon were changed in the past accordingly. Thanks for your attention. Do you perhaps have any questions? – Volker E. (WMF) (talk) 20:31, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes. To what do you ascribe the current situation? Do you feel that WMF has sufficient staff to qa software before release? Was this some kind of unforeseeable glitch? Seems to me like a pre-release targeting only a small percentage of users, or perhaps a Beta with opt-in (possibly pre-opted in by selected tester-users: count me in, if you like) might catch things like this before general release. Might as well take advantage of all the willing, unpaid talent around here. Mathglot (talk) 00:51, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ascribing the situation to a combination of shortcomings to be honest. Situative we've been doing last minute changes to the icon before the new MediaWiki release and therefore and because of not having access to a lo DPI environment at that point in time, the icon didn't meet the quality criteria on these environments.
With this in mind and our normal process, we should provide enough time to test on beta wiki and also for Quality Assurance testers and volunteers to provide us early enough with needed feedback. Thanks for offering your help, checking your user workflows from time to time on Beta could help us, specifically with big software releases. – Volker E. (WMF) (talk) 03:15, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

FYI: Javascript URIError

I get this error when I created and every time I've saved while editing wp:EWN#User: reported by User:Adakiko (Result: ) (likely heading change if resolved) This does not appear to result in anything obviously out of place or displaying after the save. All the links and diffs seem to work. Using Firefox 104.0.2 (64-bit) on Win10 pro64 OSbuild 19043.2006

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User%3A49.178.160.86_reported_by_User%3AAdakiko_%28Result%3A_%29 line 10 > injectedScript at line 236: URIError: malformed URI sequence

Not sure where line 10 is. This problem seems unrelated with these archived discussions:

Cheers Adakiko (talk) 22:34, 15 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Adakiko in User:Adakiko/common.js you are importing a personal userscript, which is importing another one, which is importing another one. Try turning that off and see if your problem resolves first. — xaosflux Talk 13:02, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hi, Browser notes states "Linux ... Dillo, ... Cookies are tricky, so logging in is tricky".

Indicates that login with Dillo should be possible. (Interesting style of documentation.)

The cookiesrc file here has this line.
wikipedia.org  ACCEPT

Yet login fails with notice "There seems to be a problem with your login session ...". If someone who's succeeded to configure cookies can explain, that will be very helpful. Thx.

For several years I've used Firefox in Debian. Recently, probably since an upgrade, Firefox crashes frequently reporting "channel error". A documented bug.

This afternoon information for two uploaded images was almost complete when Firefox vanished from the screen. Troubleshooting Firefox will be a goose chase which may never succeed. At this rate the project may never be completed. If Dillo can work, good. It's fast. It isn't bogged with JavaScript.

Thx, ... PeterEasthope (talk) 00:21, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In ~/.dillo/cookiesrc revised
wikipedia.org  ACCEPT
.org  ACCEPT
Now I can log in.  =8~)  Regards ... PeterEasthope (talk) 14:25, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@PeterEasthope you may also need wikimedia.org for certain functions (if you don't want to do the entire TLD). — xaosflux Talk 14:37, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Noted. ".org" may suffice and can investigate the more specific domains. Appropriate documentation for Dillo still advisable. Thanks, ... PeterEasthope (talk) 22:26, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wikilink markup being changed by MediaWiki

 – Browser extension was interfering with editing. — xaosflux Talk 13:48, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've noticed in recent edits double square bracket notation has suddenly been changed to single square brackets, plus the suffix "-en" in the link text. For example [ [ foo | bar ] ] (without the spaces) changes to [foo|bar-en]. I type the double square brackets and when I click preview, it changes to this weird new markup. The contents of nowiki tags, transclusions of the ((brackets)) template, square brackets entered as HTML entities, and even old versions of pages (!) are not immune. This is very surprising and undesirable behaviour. What is going on? Hairy Dude (talk) 11:14, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Hairy Dude: I haven't been able to reproduce this yet, can you please give exact step-by-step directions to do this (perhaps do it in a clean user sandbox as well). Please note which editor you are using as well. — xaosflux Talk 12:52, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't think this is the issue, but you have User:Dr pda/prosesize.js imported in to your monobook.js file, which says not to load it, directing someone that wants to use it to use the Gadget version instead. — xaosflux Talk 12:55, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've turned some Firefox extensions off and on and it seems like it's caused by Consent-O-Matic. :( Hairy Dude (talk) 13:43, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for the udpate, looks like we can say this isn't us. — xaosflux Talk 13:48, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I saw another report at Wikipedia:Help desk#single-bracket wikilinks with '-en' suffix that can't be edited? I have added Consent-O-Matic to Wikipedia:Browser notes#Unwanted effects.[1] PrimeHunter (talk) 13:17, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hairy Dude reported it to the extension at https://github.com/cavi-au/Consent-O-Matic/issues/95. They have released a fixed version v.1.0.10. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:23, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Permanently subscribed

 – Resolved on source wiki. — xaosflux Talk 14:09, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello! So over on Meta I have this issue where I"m currently subscribed to Meta:Steward requests/global because I replied to a report of a user saying that i agree that they should be locked. However since i don't want to continue receiving notifications whenever someone reports a user there, I try to click "Unsubscribe" but it says that it fails to unsubscribe. So now I'm stuck subscribed to that. Anyone know of a fix? (if this isn't the right place to ask this please direct me where to go I don't want to constantly see notifications for that). ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 13:16, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Blaze Wolf go to meta:Special:TopicSubscriptions and you should be able to delete it. — xaosflux Talk 13:46, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks! That worked! ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 14:04, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The problem was also reported as T318028. Matma Rex talk 16:54, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Internet connection fails when clicking preview

Since this edit (12:09, 12 September 2022‎) it frequently happens that Firefox displays that the Internet connection is lost when I click on preview and I have to press the back button a few times until it works again.

However, my Internet connection did not fail and all other websites are working fine. It's a problem because it can happen that I lose all the changes I've made – in the example linked above nearly everything was still in the textbox that I entered before this happened, but now it happened again and I lost all the many changes I've made.

Is this happening to other people too and what could the cause for that be? For the reason just explained, this can be very problematic, I was just done with some copyediting changes and now I have to do them all again.

I don't think this ever happened before and now it does so frequently. Prototyperspective (talk) 22:39, 16 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It happens for me, and I use Safari. Imzadi 1979  01:57, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've been having this problem sporadically for two to three weeks now. It is terribly annoying. I've been wondering if was just me. If I get it again, I will copy and paste the error message; it's something about the certificate not being valid, but that could just be the browser trying to figure out some unusual situation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:13, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I just got the error when trying to save an edit:
Secure Connection Failed

An error occurred during a connection to en.wikipedia.org.

    The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified.
    Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem.
I am using the latest version of Firefox on Mac OS, with Vector legacy as my editor. This can happen when I click Preview or Publish. It does not happen every time. If I click the "Try Again" button in the browser window (a Firefox button), it usually works. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:30, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Redirect content

Is there a proper way to add content, or search words, to a redirect to draw better hits to it in a search? The intent is to add language that searchers might use so the redirect helps get them to the right place. For example, I added content to the redirect P.M.G.O. Form 1 to add additional possible search content to it. Is this a good way to handle this? Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 14:42, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@FieldMarine: Non-redirect text of redirect pages cannot be searched or influence search results as far as I know. mw:Help:CirrusSearch#Full text search says: "all the words in the non-redirect pages are stored in the search database". You have to make more redirects or add content to the target. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:51, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Check for uses of a template with several specified parameter values

I want to know if there are any uses of Template:Infobox language with the following details:

Animal lover |666| 17:24, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You should add a language to the template that adds the template to a category depending on whether these conditions are met or not. Ruslik_Zero 19:21, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A tracking category needs a good reason. The search hastemplate:"Infobox language" insource:/signers *=/ only gives two results so you can just examine them manually. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:36, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. The answer to my original question is no, as I originally suspected. This is relevant because I'm trying to convert the template to Lua, and I saw what I thought was an optimization for wikicode which would have made the Lua more complicated if the answer to my question was yes; in short, a result from a boolean test done at one part of a template can't be used in an other part and the test must ne redone, while Lua functions don't have that issue. Animal lover |666| 08:04, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Some templates call a core subtemplate with the result of oprations which would have to be redone otherwise. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:06, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You might also find this external tool for template parameters useful. Dexxor (talk) 06:56, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]


I have made too many edits for XTools to show anymore - when this happened previously somebody at WMF Labs tweaked something. Can the same happen again please? GiantSnowman 19:22, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hey GiantSnowman. I filed a phab ticket for you. This is probably the quickest way to get the attention of a tool's developers. There's a spot on phab to add tags such as "xtools" and that will email everyone that has listed themselves as a watcher of that tag, and usually a tool's developers do this. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:51, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for that, appreciate it! GiantSnowman 21:16, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:2022–23 National League 2 East

Unable to edit the league table for 2022–23 National League 2 East. When I attempt an edit, the league table for 2022–23 National League 2 North is in the template. Would appreciate some help as I am unable to work out where I have gone wrong. Jowaninpensans (talk) 20:57, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jowaninpensans: I have fixed the page name in the watch/edit/discuss links made by the template.[2] I clicked the "Edit" tab to edit the template when the links didn't work. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:12, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is something that should be picked up by Wikipedia:Database reports/Invalid Navbar links, but it's not - I think because it uses manually-constructed links for edit etc., rather than a ((navbar)). --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:43, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, Wikipedia:Database reports/Invalid Navbar links is only for templates which use certain other templates to make the links. Template:2022–23 National League 2 East should be converted to use ((navbar)) or something similar but it follows a convention in Category:England rugby union standings templates (and apparently also some other countries). They should all be converted but at the same time for consistency. It's also problematic that they have a watch link instead of view when most readers are IP's with no watchlist. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:53, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No more mathematical proofs in the body/text of of articles

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

If an idea can't be conveyed in words it's not worth conveying in an encyclopedia. State the proposition and link to the proof, explain whatever insight or innovation the proposition represents, and be done with it. The target audience is enlightened and the more technically inclined click away to their heart's content. It's that simple. The alternative is the status quo, which is a bunch of useless (to 99.99% of visitors) symbols dominating entries on increasingly valuable ideas/concepts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iluvlawyering (talkcontribs) 03:23, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Feedback requested concerning invisibility of Tmbox on mobile view

Of seven types of message box, all are visible both from desktop or mobile view, except for ((tmbox)), which is invisible on mobile. Your feedback would be appreciated at Template talk:Mbox#Tmboxes not visible on mobile (all other mboxes are). Mathglot (talk) 06:46, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

xaoxflux responded (thanks!) at the link. Mathglot (talk) 08:46, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Note: I've created ((Tmboxw)) as a temporary workaround for this problem until T257394 is resolved. Please add bugs, concerns, or other comments at Template talk:Tmboxw. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 03:38, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Timed watchlist entries


- FlightTime (open channel) 18:38, 18 September 2022 (UTC) Reply[reply]

I'm wondering if I add a page to my watchlist and set it to auto-expire in one month, then I copy/paste from Special:EditWatchlist/raw to my secondary account, does the time factor move with the entry or are the timed entries now semi-permanent and now need to be removed manually? - FlightTime (open channel) 15:18, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@FlightTime: raw doesn't yet support expiration management, see phab:T259863 for the feature request. So if you just bring those over like you described they will be of the non-expiring variety. — xaosflux Talk 15:23, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Xaosflux: Thank you. I kinda figured that. (pardon me for starting a sentence with "And") And thank you for what you do, it's a real comfort to see your username all over Face-smile.svg - FlightTime (open channel) 15:37, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

failed login attempts

This, like all on-wiki reports of failed login attempts, serves no purpose other than rewarding trolls for a low-effort, high-payoff tactic. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 10:38, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Hello. I saw a notification that (around two hours ago) "There have been multiple failed attempts to login to your account from a new device." Just wondering if it was only me, or were there attempts on some other accounts as well? —usernamekiran (talk) 20:25, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

a few seconds ago, received two more similar notifications. First it was one notification saying 6 failed attempts. Now there are two notifications a minute apart both saying "multiple failed attempts". So in total there are three notifications now. —usernamekiran (talk) 21:56, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ignore them if your account has a strong password. Likely a troll. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v a little blue Bori 22:09, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
yup. But just a minute ago, I got one more notification saying "12 attempts". I have strong password, so nothing to worry. —usernamekiran (talk) 22:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Not concerned, nor complaining, but just an update: I opened up the browser, and there was a notification from two hours ago saying there were 90 failed attempts. —usernamekiran (talk) 04:52, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wrong edit conflict after double clicking

Hi, after editing of a talk page (e.g., the talk page at Talk:Affine_space#Definitely_not_right) and when we want to publish these edits, we should click the blue button "Publish changes". But if we double click that button instead of a single click, the edits will publish but we redirect to page Edit conflict: Talk:Affine space.

This scenario is not correct, i.e., double clicking should not cause any "edit conflict". So please correct that bug. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 04:25, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for the idea. Feature request created: phab:T318146Novem Linguae (talk) 10:35, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Page views for non-existent pages

Is there any way to get page view statistics for redlinks? For context; Tai chee was recently created as a redirect to Tai Chi. I came across it tagged as WP:R3 (a recently created redirect from an implausible typo or misnomer). The same user also created several variations such as Tai Chee and Taichee. Before deciding whether or not to delete these, I am wondering how implausible that is. I can see people typing tai chee into the search field because they don't know how to spell Tai Chi. So I am wondering if there is any way of seeing how many page views the (until today) nonexistent Tai chee were getting over the past few months? The normal page view statistics in the left side bar give no information prior to page creation. ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 16:25, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It still shows up in Page Information. Red link example (as linked from Wikipedia:Redlink) currently shows 1, for example. You can go back up to 60 days with the API, which shows a second hit for Red link example but still none for Tai chee. It's unclear whether Tai chee really had no hits in the last two months, or if redlink views become inaccessible after a page is created at that title. —Cryptic 17:16, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes. Pageviews Analysis and similar tools should show data for any title you give it, whether the page exists or not. It's a little confusing because with the way the Pageviews API works, a 404 (not found) is the same as zero pageviews, so keep that in mind. This example shows all-time data (since July 2015) for the three redirects you mention, and we see the "Not found" errors the Pageviews API gave us, which suggests no one has viewed these titles before. If you check back tomorrow there should be a number of pageviews, since they were all created today.
One important thing to note, however, is that for a pageview to be registered, someone must browse to an appropriate URL such as /wiki/Tai_chee or /w/index.php?title=Tai_chee. Typically this won't happen via search. When you do a search for a title that doesn't exist, you end up at Special:Search (example). Someone would then need to click on the red link (as if to create the article) in order for a pageview to be registered. What this means is the fact that were no pageviews shouldn't necessarily negate the plausible need for a redirect. MusikAnimal talk 17:21, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Eh, actually it looks like Pageviews Analysis does NOT let you enter in titles for nonexistent pages -- something I can fix, but regardless the second part about the likelihood of red links even getting pageviews still stands. The three pages you mention exist now, so this link is in fact hitting the pageviews API and not getting any data -- meaning zero pageviews. MusikAnimal talk 17:27, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the response. ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 18:27, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

SWViewer mysteriously not functioning

 – External tool is working again. — xaosflux Talk 15:42, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello! This probably isn't the right place to report this but SWViewer has suddenly stopped showing any edits in the queue. I've tried clearing my cache but that hasn't helped. It says I'm connected to the recent stream on the bottom, and I highly doubt all edits across all Wikis have just suddenly stopped. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 19:43, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Blaze Wolf the "right place" is meta:Talk:SWViewer. — xaosflux Talk 21:03, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Alright. I figured that'd be the right place but I wasn't sure. Regardless it appears that the issue has been resolved now. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 21:07, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Feeling really stupid

Clicked on a damned banner by mistake, it messed up the appearance of pages here, trying but failing to restore the previous appearance. Can some kind soul tell me what this skin is called? I was using it until about ten minutes ago, but I'm not seeing how to return to it in my preferences. As I said, feeling really stupid. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:55, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Justlettersandnumbers: That looks like "Vector legacy (2010)", under Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering. DanCherek (talk) 20:57, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, DanCherek, that's what I thought it was too, but when I reset to that a load of stuff is in a serif font, while until fifteen minutes ago it was sans. Is there some other button I have to click to restore my settings, do you know? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:02, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Justlettersandnumbers: Is that load of stuff within editing areas? If so, the relevant place is Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing, section Editor. AddWittyNameHere 21:22, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, AddWittyNameHere, but no, it isn't that, the edit window is about the only thing that's OK. Page titles and section headers are in serif font where they were sans before, the size relationship between the page title and menu items (top bar, side bar etc) is absurdly exaggerated (looks like about 4:1). That damned banner should read "click here and screw up your interface for good". I'm not too pleased, WMF. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:50, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Justlettersandnumbers: Try going to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets and selecting "Vector classic typography (use only sans-serif in Vector skin)". This is related to the update described at mw:Typography refresh. DanCherek (talk) 22:16, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also try to bypass your cache. Use Ctrl+F5 in most Windows browsers, not just F5 or the reload icon. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:41, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
DanCherek, you've cracked it! – thank you so much! I knew there must be another box to check somewhere, but no idea where. Yes, PrimeHunter, that too, thank you – I have that clock that also acts a purge button, that usually seems to do the trick. This is resolved, many thanks. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:01, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is there a banner that can change preferences with one click? Without wishing to spill any beans, perhaps something should be done about that. Certes (talk) 15:29, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, some time in the last two years there was one reported on this page (it'll be in the archives) that, if clicked, did cause some changes to prefs, not all of which were easily reversible. WAID may recall it. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:15, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Watchlist feature

Is there a script that will show on the watchlist page the number of edits in the prior 24hrs (relative when the last diff was made)? That way I don't have to check the history, leaving the watchlist page, when there was only a single edit. I check diffs with an in-line diff script, thus staying on the watchlist page, but you can only check the last diff and it's unknown if there were any more recently prior to it. Vandals knows this so they make 1 edit with the vandal and the 2nd edit is a normal minor change, hiding the tracks of the first edit unless someone opens the history tab. -- GreenC 21:44, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@GreenC, have you tried the "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent" option in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist? Fair warning: I personally hate it. But perhaps even fairer: Lots of other editors prefer it. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:33, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the suggestion. Ah yeah that's not good. Too much clicking and noise. All I really need is a simple low-noise indicator there were other edits made recently. I was thinking a number showing the count of diffs in past 24hrs, but it could be anything. -- GreenC 01:08, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
How about also enabling "Group changes by page in recent changes and watchlist" (Preferences -> Recent changes)? Nardog (talk) 01:11, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
WP:POPUPS let you see the most recent few entries in the history without navigating away from a watchlist. DMacks (talk) 21:19, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tech News: 2022-38

MediaWiki message delivery 22:13, 19 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Commons category

The ((commons category)) boxes have become full width for some reason. There appears to be no recent change to the template. Anyone know what has changed? Keith D (talk) 19:07, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Always always always link to an example. When I look at Achilles#External links, the box looks fine to me. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:13, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I was looking at Snaith originally, but appeared to be a general problem on others I checked out. It appears to have been fixed now. Keith D (talk) 20:20, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So there's two possibilities:
  1. Your viewport resolution was < 720px.
  2. I have no idea how, but in the event that the CSS doesn't load correctly for whatever reason. Since TemplateStyles are inlined to the page, this shouldn't happen; there are no additional network requests to perform to get styles for such content, which is the dominant way this issue occurs.
At a higher level, good practice for "block" properties in CSS (float, margin, etc.) is that they be specified only above a certain resolution, allowing smaller resolutions to use the default CSS provided in a browser. This is because in the early days of media queries, web authors needed to deal with browsers that both did and did not support media queries. The ones that didn't would not render the CSS inside the media query. I think part of the reason that practice still exists is because for many kinds of content, mobile resolutions also want "full-width" content (or at least to have the choice to lay stuff out by default). I rewrote Module:Side box to use divs and such media queries a couple months ago, and the default display of a div is 100% width, so that's why in either of the two cases above, you might get 100% width. (An aside: 720px is a lot for a Thing that we perceive to be small on the desktop, but designing just for the default desktop skin (Vector), you need to take into account the 100-200px the sidebar consumes. That leaves 300-400px of words at that width. The solution to this problem at the end of the day is CSS container queries, but rolling those out will still be quite some time for us; Chrome and Safari just merged support for them, and TemplateStyles development lags a couple years behind even if we wanted to use these queries [since not everyone will be using a browser that supports them].) Izno (talk) 22:44, 20 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unable to edit old revisions on mobile

Using the regular editor on old versions of pages only brings up the "view source" version of the page, even if the page is not protected (e.g. [7]). I can get around this if I switch to the Visual Editor or the non-mobile site. This is happening both logged in and logged out on Chrome and Microsoft Edge on Android and Windows 11. Schierbecker (talk) 03:37, 21 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]