The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Closed / no consensus to promote -- Ian Rose (talk) 11:07, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Harry Lee (cricketer)[edit]

Nominator(s): Harrias ^talk

I am nominating this article for A-Class review because having passed GA (review here), I'm looking to move this article on towards FA. I have brought this article to an A-class review here, rather than a standard peer review, as I thought it would be the more insightful of the two. Cricket is clearly my main area of expertise, and it would be good to get some knowledgeable eyes on the military section of the article. Feedback on whether the cricket information is understandable to non-experts would also be useful. Harrias ^talk 14:51, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Suggestions: sorry, not as in depth as I would like, as I'm feeling a bit under the weather:
  • the duplicate link checker tool reports a few instances of possible overlink: all-rounder, Test cricket, Marylebone Cricket Club, Pelham Warner, Warwickshire County Cricket Club, Hampshire County Cricket Club, Nottinghamshire County Cricket Club, Gloucestershire County Cricket Club, Somerset County Cricket Club, Cambridge University Cricket Club, Lord's cricket ground, J. W. Hearne, Harry Altham and E. W. Swanton;
    • I've removed a number of instances; those that remain are, I think, required. For example, Test cricket is linked to in the infobox, lead and in the section on Test cricket, which I think is appropriate, and Lord's cricket ground is linked in the prose and the caption for the image of Lord's. Harrias ^talk 14:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Lee did bowl against Gloucestershire, remaining wicketless from nine overs in the match". This might sound a little smoother as: "Lee did bowl against Gloucestershire, but remained wicketless from nine overs in the match";
    • Changed as suggested. Harrias ^talk 14:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • do you know anything about the training that Lee received? I assume he did some training before deploying to France, if you know it you might just add one sentence saying what he did and where it was undertaken;
  • there is a slight inconsistency in your terminology. Mostly you use "First World War", but in the military infobox you use "World War I". This should probably be the same;
    • Changed the infobox to use "First World War" as well. Harrias ^talk 14:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Lee was part of D Company, which along with C Company lead the Kensingtons during the assault..." should this be: "Lee was part of D Company, which along with C Company led the Kensingtons during the assault"?
    • Changed as suggested. Harrias ^talk 14:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He was discharged from the army on 4 December 1915, with the Silver War Badge". Are we sure that he received the badge upon discharge? The Silver War Badge article says it wasn't in general issue until September 1916;
  • "The Nyanza was torpedoed twenty miles out of Plymouth", you might consider adding the ((convert)) template to the distance;
    • Changed as suggested. Harrias ^talk 14:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The rest of the journey was completed without incident, despite a rumour that the Emden, a German light cruiser lay in wait for the convoy", probably needs a second comma after "light cruiser" to denote the subordinate clause;
    • Changed as suggested. Harrias ^talk 14:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a fact which he describes as "cause and effect" of his poor form in 1924 and 1925", might sound better as "a fact which he describes as 'the "cause and effect" of his poor form in 1924 and 1925";
    • Changed as suggested. Harrias ^talk 14:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • do we know anything about his private life? Did he marry? Did he have any children? AustralianRupert (talk) 10:10, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • There is very little in any sources I have about him; even his autobiography (which is admittedly mostly about cricket) doesn't mention much. I might have a look in the National Archives for any birth/marriage certificates at some point though. Harrias ^talk 14:01, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments; they may not be as in depth as you'd like, but they're still very useful! I've responded to most, and am looking into the others. Harrias ^talk 14:00, 16 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

G'day, I'm happy enough with your changes to support for A-class. If the sources don't provide information, that's fine. I would recommend trying to fill in those small gaps before going to FAC, if at all possible, though. I have only reviewed prose, content and referencing density. You will need someone to check images, citation style, and reference spot checks. It might also be good to have someone who writes cricket articles a lot join this review. Is there anyone over at the cricket project, who you could ask to take a look? They might be able to point out any subject specific requirements that I couldn't. I love the game (playing and watching), but have no experience writing about it so I might have missed something. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 07:50, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've looked at a couple of the issues raised above having originally added a lot of the military detail. I've tried to explain a little more about where he might have trained. Unfortunately what survives of his records is not very clear on this point (most other ranks records for the British Army were badly affected by a WWII bombing raid. Some of Lee's records were in a set which happened to be with the Ministry of Pensions at the time, so some of his papers survive, but they are not particularly detailed (and the scanned image is a little unclear in places). I have attempted to finesse the question of when exactly he would have received the Silver War Badge.

I note also that in the GA review there ws a query as to whether his service records, hosted by Ancestry, were an appropriate resource. Obviously they are WP:PRIMARY (though official), but I believe they satisfy the "reliably published" caveat of WP:NOR. Ancestry has the images as a Licensed Internet Associate of The National Archives. More information about what this process involves can be seen at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/opportunity-2010.pdf. Similarly, some of the other resources used are published directly by The National Archives. As such they form part of the Public Record of the United Kingdom. Note that I cannot be considered unbiased in regard to The National Archives however. David Underdown (talk) 16:18, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that information, David. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 21:49, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Post-closure review (I edit-conflicted with the closer)

Comments:

• External links checked. All seem fine.
• Dab links checked. Again all's well.
• Alt text checked. Nothing missing, but some of the text could be more descriptive of the image (eg rather than "A cricket pavilion" perhaps "A large red-brick building containing spectator galleries overlooks a neatly mown and rolled grass cricket field"?). This isn't really necessary for milhist ACR but may be picked up at FAC.
• Spotcheck of references seems fine. Just one point:
  • "...and Lee finished third in both the batting and bowling tables, behind Hearne and Hendren amongst the batsmen..." Presumably you are talking about batting averages here rather than runs scored? It might help to clarify that in the text.
• Original research: One thing that particularly jumped out at me is the sentence "In truth, Lee was not simply an average county cricketer; his 18,594 first-class runs for Middlesex rank him eleventh in their all-time list...". The references support the figures you give, but you appear to be making a value judgement as a editor based on those figures. We can't do that - to write what you've written we'd need a source that explicitly supports that opinion. This relates in a small way to some of the concern above about drawing synthesis from primary sources.See WP:OR and WP:SYNTH for more information.

Hope this helps for future development, EyeSerene^talk 11:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.