Archive of "discussion of the "seven day rule""
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needs to be refactored into a list of opinions and pros and cons of each option
How long should we wait after someone has noticed a copyright violation before deleting it? -phma
Copyright infringement [should be] split from VfD -- because we give these longer grace than nonsense entries, and VfD is getting too long to handle. -- Tarquin 14:06 Jan 4, 2003 (UTC)
IMO VfD is too long to work with. It also runs at two speeds -- copyright violations are given a weeks' grace or more; but nonsense articles get deleted sooner. -- Tarquin 17:53 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)
There are too many requirements which, if allowed to continue, will, for all practical purposes, make it impossible to get a page deleted.
Nothing can be deleted for at least a week after being put on Votes for deletion. This is too long a time. What are we to do about nuisance articles being created by banned users who come into the Wikipedia to cause trouble, or those like Michael who keeps coming in and creating articles even though they know that they've been banned? Do we just let those articles sit around forever? There are users such as MyRedDice who will vote to keep any and all entries from banned users because he doesn't believe in banning anybody for anything. -- Zoe
discussion hacked from context - also discussed was splitting off /copyvio, as an alternative.
This page grows too large too fast. I propose that we reduce the waiting period from 7 to 5 days. If there are no objections, I will change the text accordingly. --Eloquence 07:05 25 May 2003 (UTC)
How long do we wait before del copyvio? They all are so obvious, and they're added mostly by experimental Anon newbies. --Menchi 16:16 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)
"Experimental anon newbies" sometimes turn out to be highly qualified authors submitting their own work which they have already submitted elsewhere. I've personally confirmed two cases of this by emailling the author. -- Tim Starling 01:05 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Regarding my deletion of the images on Talk:Finch. I realize now that I should have posted them on Votes for deletion first, even though they would have obviously been deleted anyhow. I was being a bit paranoid. I will list ANYTHING here in the future. MB 21:23 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)
this stuff was part of the discussion on splitting with headers - remember that? ruthlessly hacked out of context
"five days I think is better" - FearÉIREANN
I still think that 7 days is too long, though, especially if we provide a notification on the page. --Eloquence 02:08 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
The seven day rule doesn't mean - it will stay there for a minimum of seven days, it means it will sit there for exactly seven days and no-more and then be removed, either deleted, kept or moved to another page if the debate is still going on. FearÉIREANN 01:00 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I still think that 7 days is too long, though, especially if we provide a notification on the page. --Eloquence 02:08 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
As for the 7-day rule, I am strongly in favour of keeping it, because not everyone comes here every day, and even if they do, there is so much going on here that it might be a few days before they even notice what is happening. We should give everyone enough time to add their comments. The idea of removing things if there is no discussion for just 24 hours is absurd. On the other hand, there should be exceptions to the 7-day rule: pretty much the same ones that we use already. If a page is deleted or redirected or sorted out so that the original proposer withdraws their deletion request, then I think an entry can be removed from the page straight away. -- Oliver P. 11:15 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I do think 7 days is too long. FearÉIREANN 23:00 15 Jul 2003 (UTC) (as part of a wider point)
I don't understand why the copyright infrigment are kept for more than a couple of days. If there is a cp pb, unless there is a doubt for the cp and need to wait for an author answer, why not just delete the page on spot ? Why not setting a different page for the cp issues ? Anthère
Editorial note: someone added a "fast track" header to VfD and 2-3 pages were added there.
I unilaterally removed the fast track section, which was unilaterally added. Of the two possible copyvios proposed for fast-tracking so far, neither is a definate copyvio, and neither will cause any harm in remaining a week before being deleted. This kind of misunderstanding is precisely why we have a policy on not deleting alleged copyvios until a week has passed. The idea of a seperate page for possible copyvios is probably a better approach - I've seen it proposed a fair few times, and no objections, but nobody's implemented it yet.
On a related note, I think we need to amend deletion policy to include on the list of exceptions: 1) deleting redirects to make way for moves, 2) temporarilly deleting pages to merge page history. I don't think this is at all controversial, but I've been wrong about these things before. Martin 18:11, 19 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I really don't see a point in listing items for 7 days. Let's go by Eloquence's proposal to drop it to 4 or 5 days (if a consensus is reached). --Jiang 23:36, 7 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Express preferences here:
Reduce to 4 days (7)
Reduce to 5 days (9)
Keep at 7 days (4)
Expand to 8 days (3)
this is a silly vote
Don't care / this is silly (who decided on that as a category?)
Some people only edit Wikipedia on certain days of the week; listing items for a week allows them to participate in discussion. --mav 00:12, 8 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion before, you know. I have refactored it into Wikipedia talk:Votes for deletion/lag time - a page of pros and cons of each option so that folks can review it. I hope this will avoid the need to re-hash the same old arguments. Martin 12:18, 8 Sep 2003 (UTC)
My concern is whether all the folks who have voted have reviewed those past arguments. Seperately, we now have another "vote" set up and started without discussion of what the options should be, what the deadline is, etc. Does this also apply to copyvios, or are they being considered seperately? Are we shortening lag time only for items where consensus is reached, as Jiang hinted, or for all items? How do I vote if I favour different "lag times" for different types of article, or for different circumstances? Martin 10:57, 8 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Is this a vote as in the logo contest or as is standard on wp, a consensus-thingy? I have no problem with less "insurance time" on vfd as long as something else is added to replace it. Like, only delete if at least X other contributors also agrees, or that all the authors to the page must be contacted when it is put on vfd. BL 15:01, 9 Sep 2003 (EDT)
I think there should be more differentiation. A page that has got a few 'agree, delete' comments and no others can unproblematically go after 3 or 4 days. If a page is just put on and nothing further happens, the full 7 days seem right. And of course is there is any kind of discussion, one should at least wait until the discussion has died down. Andre Engels 07:48, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)
VfD is back at 92kb again. Is 75% in favour enough to change this? At least temporarily until another solution arises. I propose that this is implemented immediately and trialled for one week, only on the main VfD page (ignoring copyvios and foreign for now), and moving those still actively under discussion that are more than 5 days old. Angela 23:37, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Instead, just remove those articles along with their debates from VfD where it seems to be unlikely to reach a consensus or where a decision has already been taken. BL 00:05, 1 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Three cheers for unilateral problem solving! You have my support. -- Cyan 03:06, 1 Oct 2003 (UTC)
There's two separate issues here:
1) How long should the waiting period be in which arguments are made in favour of a page voted for deletion?
2) How many deletion discussions can be sustained simultaneously on one Wikipedia page?
It would be a shame to allow the answer to (2), (constrained as it is by essentially arbitrary details of technology, choice of implementation, and UI design) to affect the answer to (1) if there's any way to avoid that.
For example, could VfD be made more manageable (and not much less usable) by aggressively moving any involved discussions to the relevant talk page and leaving some standard boilerplate link? Onebyone 08:52, 1 Oct 2003 (UTC)
As time goes by and Wikipedia attracts new users the number of days required for the required number of users to make an accuate poll of the all users will decrease in time. : ChrisG 14:08, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I've now read more of the discussion/edit war from last time, and I take your point. I agree that discussions be moved after 5 days. I additionally propose that pages be deleted after 48 hours if nobody has opposed deletion or if everyone who has opposed it has stated that they've changed their minds. Also that articles be removed from VfD after 48 hours if nobody (other than the original poster) has supported deletion, or if everyone in favour of ditching the article has recommended things like "rewrite", "stubbify" or "redirect". In that case it moves to a one-liner on Pages needing attention. For the sake of accountability sysops probably shouldn't use any of these 48 hour rules on pages they nominated themselves, or across public holidays. -- Onebyone 14:47, 1 Oct 2003 (UTC)
On the "48 hour nobody-pro" rule, I realise it's a bit controversial. I checked the current page when I wrote the above, and what you describe applies to about 4 or 5 things on it, plus a block of 3 that could be interpreted as not having been commented on. So what my policy would cost is that someone who is aware of it would have to make a single short comment on each of 4 or 5 ( call it 10 if you like) such instances a week. Not a problem, it just requires that if there isn't already a comment on an article and you agree with the request, you have to comment instead of just leaving it. Onebyone 14:36, 2 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Agreed. Something like this:
After 48 hours: If there are at least 8 votes to Delete, none to Keep, and common sense dictates (to the deleting user) that the article was not created with goodwill (and therefore waiting a week for the article creator to notice the VfD tag and comment is an unnecessary politeness), it can be deleted. After 48 hours: If there are at least 4 votes to Keep, and none to Delete, save perhaps a minimal comment by the user who listed it on VfD, the listing and VfD notice may be removed.
Lag time concept is meaningless. You had better define a minimum participation for each Vfd poll, in order for the poll to be a legitimate. Imagine two Vfd polls:
The first poll remained active for 5 days and received just one vote for deletion.
The second poll also remained active for the same time, but received 195 votes for deletion.
For God's sake, are those two polls identical? So it is not the lag time that matters, but the statistic values (numbers of votes/time) and (minimum final participation percentage) that turns a Vfd poll legitimate.
So please remove the lag time directive from the Vfd policy, and introduce the (participation percentage/time period) and the (minimum final participation percentage) directives..
Why does it stay so long... 24.54.208.177 03:00, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)