- The entire crowd size section. There is a certain estimate of 87,000 by CBS News and AirPhotosLive.com which claims to be a scientific estimate of the crowd and thus the most authoritative. CBS devoted two news articles to the estimate, explaining AirPhotosLive.com's methodology for arriving at the estimate. The issue is the WP:WEIGHT policy. One group of editors thinks that since CBS detailed their estimate extensively, this estimate should thus get a detailed paragraph of its own in the section. The other group of editors thinks CBS's should be treated as all other estimates, believing giving a paragraph to CBS would be giving it undue weight and would imply to readers that CBS's is the only correct estimate and thus violating WP:NPOV.
- How much can you say about fabricated estimates or non estimates, e.g. the no-one-can-say-how-many-were-there citations? Beck looked at photos, and using his intuition and nothing else, at least not any exspertise, came up with a number that flattered his vanity. We can say a lot about the Brian Williams 300,000, mainly he didn't know what he was talking about during a discussion forum on Meet The Press, not as an anchor person presenting a fact checked report. In other words, almost nothing to give weight except fantastical or uniformed opinions. On a personal note, if you were to exclude me from those who want the overuse of detailing of CBS's estimates processes, I would be grateful. The Artist AKA Mr Anonymous (talk) 20:42, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
- Not that this is the place to discuss this (probably should remove your reply and my reply from this section or add it to the talk, but I don't know what the process is here), but I had to respond to your "matter of fact" guesswork. Beck stated those estimates were based past estimates of crowd sizes and what those areas are reported to hold. This is what most news media, event organizers, and non-official park services have used in the past for estimates. The area around the reflecting pool is reported to hold 150,000 to 200,000 people, and it was full. The side lawn to the left when looking at the Lincoln Memorial is reported to hold 300,000 people, and that was full. Then you had people under the trees and to the right of the pool when looking at the Lincoln Memorial. Similarly, the One Nation Working Together rally had estimates of between 175,000 and 200,000, but you can see looking at the photos that it was much less then the Restoring Honor Rally. Likely both over inflated, but it's not based on nothing; it's based on past events and what that area is reported to hold. Depending on density, a crowded National Mall can supposedly hold between 1.5 million and 3 million people. Those estimates may not be scientifically accurate, but that's what events have used in the past for estimating crowd size. Beck may be one of the few cursed with a scientific estimate - it's already being used as a point of comparision (MSNBC’s Ed Schultz Declares: ‘One Nation’ Rally Was Just as Big as Beck Event) Morphh (talk) 21:27, 07 October 2010 (UTC)
- Using Newsbusters as a source? Comparing event organizer estimates to each other? The Artist AKA Mr Anonymous (talk) 22:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
- I'm not aware of any, if any news organizations, besides CBS detailing how they arrived at their estimates, so how you found that out is of interest. Event organizers are not reliable sources, as Doig has pointed out, and if we cite any, then we need to throw in Doig's caveat against the class. There is no way to generally refer to how estimates have been done, except the scientific estimates are far exceeded by event organizers and supporters. The Honor Rally is no exception. The Artist AKA Mr Anonymous (talk) 22:05, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
- I think you guys should probably hold off on getting into debate, and let the mediator take us to the next step in the process. :) All in good time... Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 22:04, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
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