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John Rocha[edit]

I am aware John Rocha is considered a subject-matter expert based on WP:SPS but may I ask how? The policy states that a reliable, independent source must publish them for them to be considered a subject-matter expert, but I don't recall a rumor from John Rocha specifically, not Jeff Sneider, being published by a reliable source. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. In the Wonder Man article, his rumor about the series being canceled is reported on by ScreenGeek, a non-reliable source.

However, if it is actually the Hot Mic Podcast as a whole that is considered a self-published source and Rocha is basically grandfathered into being considered an SME, I strongly believe we should make an exception and stray from that as there is a significant disparity between Sneider's and Rocha's level of reliability, and he even admits this himself. Anytime he's about to share something he heard, he prefaces it by saying "Jeff's the credible one so takes this with a grain of salt," essentially admitting that his rumors are not credible, here's one example.

In that one example, he proceeds to claim that the Fantastic Four cast would be announced "by the end of next week", which of course has not happened. Ten days after his "Wonder Man is dead" claim, THR and Deadline said the series was still happening. On his latest stream, he said he'd seen reports that Ayo Edebiri might be pulling out of Thunderbolts. I've scoured Twitter to find such a report but I don't believe it exists. Three days later at the Golden Globes, Edebiri reiterated she's still in the film. (Besides, why is someone simply saying they saw a rumor even being mentioned on Wikipedia in the first place?) Later in that stream, he read out a fake Thunderbolts premise, thinking it was official, that actually traces back to one of those shady Marvel Updates accounts on Twitter, and the premise is clearly supposed to be a joke as it is almost a 1:1 match for the Suicide Squad plot.

I am aware that it is not up to Wikipedia editors to determine whether a source is credible or not, but I felt the need to share my thoughts and to see what others may think. What's happening here is we're basically considering a self-admittedly non-reliable source reliable and sometimes even reporting on things he says he saw online. As I said before, if Rocha is being considered an SME under the umbrella of the Hot Mic Podcast, I believe an exception should made in this case and his rumors should not be included on Wikipedia. What do you guys think? Aldwiki1 (talk) 16:33, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was admittedly skeptical of including Rocha's most recent claim on Edebiri as it raised a few eyebrows for myself given the lack of backup evidence of said rumors, and others I have shared that claim with have expressed this same sentiment. I do believe Rocha is a less credible source than Sneider is, though he has gotten a few things correct (though I don't recall them off the top of my head). The Wonder Man report is somewhat questionable, though we include that more for neutrality's sake. ScreenGeek appears to have some editorial oversight, so that was why their article on Rocha's comments was included there, although we can revert back to the direct YouTube source if that satisfies concerns. I am also lenient in removing Rocha's claims from the Thunderbolts draft as those do seem less accurate/plausible. Regardless, we do know Sneider is the more reputable of the two, and I should have been more cautious with what to include from his co-host. (We did have a discussion about Rocha's reliability at Talk:Wonder Man (miniseries)#Reliable of source and contradiction, so this is an extension of that.) I am willing to be less inclusive and more skeptical of Rocha's comments on rumors/reports moving forward, after all, this is all part of the process of determining reliability among sources. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:43, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree Rocha probably shouldn't be considered reliable. But Sneider has worked previously at Hollywood trades (I can point to Collider specifically) and he can be viewed as a SME. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:07, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't mean to say this as if it proves Rocha's unverifiable claims (which Sneider himself said was something he "speculated"), though it turns out true that Edebiri dropped out of Thunderbolts. Just putting this here for context, that's all. Trailblazer101 (talk) 05:41, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Iron Man and/or Endgame as a vital article[edit]

I nominated Iron Man and/or Endgame to become vital articles if anyone has anything they would like to add to the discussion which can be found here. -- ZooBlazer 19:02, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I cast my !vote! - Karl Mordo Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:10, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ZooBlazer: Based on the other comments and votes there, I'm thinking we should look into nominating the main MCU article to be promoted to a level 4 vital arts article (as it currently is under that level 5 here) and then repurpose this nomination as level 5 under that umbrella should that get promoted. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:21, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Trailblazer101 Nomination done. -- ZooBlazer 05:39, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unused episode reference lists[edit]

Are unused episode reference lists such as those at List of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. characters#Season 1 a valid usage? When a normal reference is unused it will throw an error "ref is not used in the content" and be placed in an error category. Using them this way bypasses this check. Additionally, we end up with a situation where have duplicate references (such as to "One of Us"). I think we should comment out the unused list so any future use is already ready, but when used, they should be added to the normal reference list. Gonnym (talk) 13:27, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If I recall, for that list specifically, the episode refs were included to just have a "general" citation on the list to claim that it could source info for characters if third party ones weren't available. Obviously, adding those tapered off at some point, so I don't really know if they are worthwhile on the whole to include. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:29, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, the idea was we could have unsourced character details (which people kept adding anyway) and they would be covered because all the episodes were referenced. Ideally, we would go through and make sure there were reliable third-party sources for all information in the article and then we wouldn't need those general references. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:00, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how these are helpful though. If the point is just throw a general source that isn't easily verifiable or helpful, then lets just give the series as a a source. A reader wanting to confirm a specific detail and has a list of 100 episodes that one of them -might- have the information, realistically won't find it. Gonnym (talk) 20:35, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deadpool[edit]

Yesterday, @Gonnym went through a bunch of articles, files, and redirects related to Deadpool and Deadpool 2 and tagged them with |mcu=yes. I was halfway through reverting them but stopped when they began re-reverting. You can see the subsequent discussion here. We currently do not regard Deadpool and Deadpool 2 as part of the MCU on any of our articles, including List of Marvel Cinematic Universe films, and neither does Deadpool (film) nor Deadpool 2.

I'm fairly certain we've discussed this before with multiversal films in general, but I guess this is trickier since Deadpool 3 is a direct sequel to the previous films. But even then, I don't think we can treat them as MCU because from a real-world perspective, they were still produced by a different studio and set in a different franchise. That Disney has decided to keep the same actor for Deadpool as they have done with several other characters (for fan-service/$$$ reasons) does not change this or make the previous two films canon. Gonnym, however, believes that Deadpool 3 connects to the MCU [so] it does mean that Deadpool 1 and 2 belong to the MCU. They also argue that |mcu=yes doesn't necessarily mean it's MCU, but I'll note that we don't tag any of the SSU films, or the X-Men films, or even other articles tangentially related to the MCU like Walt Disney Studios (division) and Marvel Comics. Thoughts?

InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:50, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed these as well and already commented at that talk, though I'll reiterate some of my concerns here. It seems that what is defined as the scope of the MCU taskforce has been perceived to be ambiguous with several tagging in the logs lately for articles only remotely related to the MCU (which I don't think is the best practice), especially when it comes to adding it for films clearly not part of the franchise. If notifying the taskforce of article alerts is a concern, those can be done through tagging them with ((WikiProject Comics)) with |marvel=yes and through WP:FILM discussions that many of us are also on. Deadpool 3 was never an official title so one could argue that Deadpool & Wolverine is somewhat separate from the prior films, though it cannot be argued that it being in the MCU would make the prior films (let alone other X-Men films) worthy of the MCU tag. We don't (and shouldn't) do that for the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man films, Elektra, the Venom films, or any appearance of Charles Xavier. Same with X-Men '97. The comics articles don't and shouldn't use the MCU tags. Making an exception for the prior Deadpool films seems unnecessary and counterintuitive. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:57, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would argue that one of the main reasons Disney insisted on not calling it "Deadpool 3" was likely to convey that it is its own thing. Same faces, presumably loads of references and Easter eggs, but different characters and continuities from a real-world perspective. They already did this with Professor X in a yellow wheelchair and a different-looking Beast who knows Maria Rambeau (same case for DC with Michael Keaton's Batman, who has the same Batmobile and the same catchphrases, but evidently a different character). InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:11, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with InfiniteNexus, having a sequel in the MCU doesn't mean they're connected enough for the tag, should be a more explicit connection for the tag. Maguire's Spider-Man 1 and Garfield's The Amazing Spider-Man are more connected from their appearances in No Way Home but aren't and shouldn't be tagged. Indagate (talk) 20:20, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was getting to the content table and saw these adds after glancing at this discussion. I've removed the remaining Deadpool-related articles from being tagged. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:33, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've now removed any other mcu tags that remained on the articles and tagged them all with more appropriate ones per my suggestions. Trailblazer101 (talk) 20:16, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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