WikiProject Plants

Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/WikiProject used

This project page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add ((WikiProject banner shell)) to this page and add the quality rating to that template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Plants Project‑class This page is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of plants and botany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PlantsWikipedia:WikiProject PlantsTemplate:WikiProject Plantsplant articles Project This page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Archives since 2011

54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73 74, 75, 76

This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 6 sections are present.

For an article on a particular hybrid, how much documentation is necessary? I noticed many articles such as × Pachyveria glauca 'Little Jewel' with the only meaningful documentation being a dealer's catalog, or × Quesmea 'Flame' with a link that does not lead to any information, or Buddleja davidii 'SMBDPB' = Merry Magic Orchid whose documentation consists of a dealers catalog and a claimed plant patent application (in that example, would it make any diffeence if the patent were actually granted?) ? DGG ( talk ) 04:22, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@DGG: personally I would delete both of these and all other articles on 'minor' cultivars. It's enough to list and discuss them briefly at the relevant species or genus article. There's a clear difference between a cultivar of limited distribution and appeal versus a widespread and important cultivar, like Rosa Peace or Malus 'Discovery'. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:36, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

DGG, I think a good rule of thumb here is that anything species level or higher is automatically notable, but anything below species level (subspecies, cultivar, hybrid) should meet GNG. There are a lot of pages like that which need to be redirected or deleted (since a lot of them are improbable redirects). I prodded two, the other should be merged into × Pachyveria but can't say I have the energy to do that... CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 21:38, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, in general merging cultivars is prudent. Species up is our standard tidal mark of notability. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:33, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• I of course had always thought, that we only comprehensive made articles starting. at the species level, and that those not widely known ,in either horticultural or commercial use usually won't be suitable for an article. But I did not want to start nominating the hundreds of articles involved in, for example, without checking here there might be some special understanding in the subject area. I suggest htat a situation like this might be better handling by multiple bold redirects to a list, that by the necessary number of deletions. DGG ( talk ) 04:30, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• As a heads up, I've been PROD-tagging a large number of cultivars recently independent of this discussion after finding some of them as orphans and finding that not one had any significant coverage that I could find. It occurred to me today to drop a line here to advise WP Plants people of what I'm up to - please accept my apologies for not thinking of it first. I've been working off the list at User:Premeditated Chaos/sandbox 5 (what's hatted is tagged, what's not is "to-do") at a rate of 15 per day so as not to overwhelm PROD. When I can merge them, I have been, but most are hybrids and not really suitable for a merge. I'm not sure I agree with merging to a list only given that these are non-notable cultivars supported by a database listing, thus a bare list would basically be a WP:NOTSTATS/not-a-database violation. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:47, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• As a question for @DGG, Casliber, CaptainEek, Peter coxhead, and Premeditated Chaos: on this topic, how do we feel about the articles linked in List of elm cultivars, hybrids and hybrid cultivars. Some are well cited, some are very meager. pinging @Izigabo, Tom elm, and Stavast22: as the primary editors in that area.--Kevmin § 00:29, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Having opened basically a random selection of those using linkclump, I think they need to be individually assessed. Some appear to have sufficient sourcing to meet GNG (on a glance, without reviewing the sources at all), while others are on the level of the Bromeliad cultivars I've been PRODding (nothing more than a database entry). Unfortunately I don't have any real botanical knowledge/expertise, so I'm not sure my opinion counts for much. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:49, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Agree - have to review each one Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:13, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• My comment above (first in this thread) applies here too. Maybe we could agree, as a WikiProject, that the default for cultivars is not notable. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:41, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• For anyone keeping track, I'm through PROD-tagging the 150+ Tillandsia cultivars and will be starting on Billbergia cultivars tomorrow. As none of the PRODs have been contested so far, I may ramp up to 20 or even 25 per day, because there are a lot of Bromeliaceae cultivar articles. (And although it's the largest ornamental plant sub-cat, it's not the only one!) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:36, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• As of today, the PRODs have been reverted en masse, so I will likely be creating a bundled AfD for them (by species). ♠PMC♠ (talk) 16:52, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Randall James Bayer page, of a living botanist, appears to have been written by Randall James Bayer (Rjbayer). It was created on 19 August 2006‎, nominated for deletion on 19 August 2006‎, voted keep on 24 August 2006, and the final edit by the subject of the page was 15 years ago this month. Various cleanup edits have occurred since 2006, but in these 15 years, it still cites no sources (other than the IPNI citation for the botanist abbreviation) and has no tag templates. Furthermore, it is almost an exact copy of https://www.anbg.gov.au/biography/bayer-randall.html. Which came first is hard to tell. (Also posted on Project Biography.) Eewilson (talk) 20:08, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• His h-index is 47, which means the article will probably be kept at AfD. Abductive (reasoning) 01:57, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's fine, but it needs to be cited. Since you think it will be kept (as it was previously), I'll go ahead and tag it as needs citations. Eewilson (talk) 06:24, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi all,

The usual search - to add ((botanist|Maige)) (or similar) to this article - doesn't yield any result.

The Comité des travaux historiques et scientifiques has his biography here.

Am I missing something here? (Admittedly, the answer is most probably, "Yes, Shirt58, sometimes botanists don't have ipni entries. Please f*ck off and write articles about things you actually know something about")

Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 09:34, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I assume the IPNI only has entries for botanists who have named a plant taxon. His work seems more on the physiology and other non-taxonomic subjects. There is a not more on his at encyclopedia.com. —  Jts1882 | talk  10:22, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen a few botanists/plant people in IPNI who have not named any plants, but I don't know the pattern to that. Eewilson (talk) 06:25, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As noted by Eewilson IPNI has a number of entries for people who have not named taxa, and I have noted myself that it lacks a number of entries for paleobotanists how have named numerous taxa (example Jack A. Wolfe, Wesley Wehr, Kathleen Pigg, and Melanie DeVore)--Kevmin § 17:45, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kevmin: IPNI is aware it has poor coverage of paleobotany. I sent them quite a few at one time which were added. See User:Peter coxhead/Work/Early polysporangiophytes#Paleobotanical authors where there are more I didn't get round to. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:50, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Something I noticed and brought up on the talk page of the Infraspecific name article. Please refer to my new comment at Talk:Infraspecific name#Needs work to actually define "infraspecies". I won't repeat it here. Thanks! Eewilson (talk) 06:28, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

When moving the current article to the species level, as prep for a fossil record inclusive genus article, I accidentally mis-copied the binomial. This should get moved to Pteroceltis tatarinowii over the redirect there, would someone with page-move ability be able to swap this one over? Thanks!--Kevmin § 17:46, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Peter coxhead (talk) 20:42, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again Peter coxhead--Kevmin § 20:59, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is there interest in reforming this wikiproject to be more organised, like Milhist and others, or is the understanding that the sheer breadth of the project makes that so difficult as to be pointless. Dracophyllum 07:41, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have interest if reorganization needs to happen. :) Eewilson (talk) 07:44, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, creating functional subdivisions/task teams devoted to various aspects (like MILHIST has) makes sense to improve the manageability of the project. Just like Botany has subtopics the project could be subdivided into topics such as taxonomy, ecology, food and horticulture/agriculture, and geographic or floristic kingdoms, etc. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:21, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What I propose we do:

• Start a Newsletter (or just restart the tree of life one)
• Have a page with guides for new editors (similar to the academy from Milhist)
• Run competitions and have tasks to foster discussion and editing
• Have coords maybe
• Institute the goals I made in my sandbox

... Dracophyllum 20:55, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sure - can't hurt to give it a whirl...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:04, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Dracophyllum Ooh, I like that. The project is fairly active at the moment and I think that could be useful to keep energy sustained. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 21:09, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging some respected plant editors, @Plantdrew, @Gderrin, @Plantsurfer, and notifying @Eewilson Dracophyllum 00:51, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It is not lost on me that I was excluded from the group of "respected plant editors." I have a long memory, Dracophyllum. Eewilson (talk) 01:28, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Haha Eewilson it was because you were already in the conversation I assure you :) Dracophyllum 01:38, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, if you say so. :) Thoughts I have including fitting in

• our long list of botanists who need articles or need expanded articles
• our supportive articles that we link to all the time
• DYK goals?

I'll think of more, probably. —Eewilson (talk) 02:11, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds great to me if there are people who are prepared to do the extra work. Keeping DYK about botanists and plants on the main page is certainly a worthy goal, as is preparation of a guide for beginners and for students doing university/college assignments on plants. Gderrin (talk) 03:51, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Most any stub could easily be expanded five-fold and submitted for DYK. They would not be GA or FA, but they would be out there. Eewilson (talk) 08:52, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We seem to have articles at Quercus bumelioides and Quercus sapotifolia that are about the same type of tree (they use the same image, and the Commons category for one redirects to the other). Would someone be able to have a look and potentially merge them, please? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:22, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Peel, Plants of the Word Online lists Quercus bumelioides as a synonym of Quercus sapotifolia, so I think it can safely be merged to Q. sapo. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:30, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mike Peel Good find. According to COL, they are synonymous. The issue seems to be that the bumelioides article was made by PolBot, which isn't always the most accurate. Unfortunately, like so many plant species, not very well documented. By leaves alone, it is possible that bumelioides is in fact a distinct species. Oaks of the World (perhaps not the most reliable) gives a short squat leaf[1] but SEINet (more trustworthy) has mostly elongated leafs in its collection [2]. Of course, it could just be due to local variation/temperature/genetics, and might still be the same species. Without access to some of the hard copy works cited, it'd be hard to know. They probably should be merged, with Q. sapotifolia as the title, but I will hold off since I know there are other more able taxonomists here than myself.

Unfortunately, so much plant knowledge is locked away in esoteric tomes. I have several works on grasses of the southwest that I doubt were ever published in more than a hundred copies, and mostly never digitized. (Been meaning to make more articles...) Plants just don't get the kind of attention the more charismatic species do :/ CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 19:47, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Premeditated Chaos and CaptainEek: Thanks for the quick replies! Any chance one of you would be willing to do the merge, please? I really don't know much about plants, sorry! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:50, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mike Peel Done :) CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 19:56, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks! Mike Peel (talk) 19:58, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note to all, DO NOT copy the IUCN status when merging PolBot articles. If a PolBot article is a synonym, typically that means that it represents an entity that is a regional variant of a more widespread species. If the widespread species has been assessed by IUCN, it will almost certainly have a lower threat level than the regional variant. Q. sapotifolia has been assessed by IUCN, and I've updated the reference to the IUCN page for Q. sapotifolia. Plantdrew (talk) 20:48, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Plantdrew That is good to know! CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 21:07, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• DYK nomination for Symphyotrichum potosinum passed!
• GA nomination for Symphyotrichum novae-angliae (talk page) waiting for reviewer

—Eewilson (talk) 02:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Okay....in the spirit of collegiality, I've been buffing Gardenia jasminoides in bits and starts over the years, summoning up energy for a GA/FA push. Any input from others to grease the edits in the right direction would be appreciated (either comments or edits)......Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:54, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I can give it a little look later, Casliber Eewilson (talk) 08:56, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Casliber, I took a look, made some tweaks, gave some comments. Eewilson (talk) 12:03, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Much appreciated! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:42, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• DYK nomination for Symphyotrichum molle here
• TFA request for Symphyotrichum lateriflorum here

—Eewilson (talk) 16:41, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is done by a bot on the main page under the Monitoring section. Dracophyllum 18:17, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dracophyllum Stop trying to spoil my fun...you ol' meanie. Eewilson (talk) 18:27, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, forgot about WP:AVOIDYOU. Eewilson (talk) 18:54, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Be sure to add your TFA nomination to the TFA requests page, since you're looking for December. Wehwalt has already scheduled the first 8 days of December. Longer-term requests should go to WP:TFAP (for "pending"). - Dank (push to talk) 19:53, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Starting a new thread so it doesn't get swallowed by the old one. I have bundled ten Tillandsia stubs into the above-noted AfD nomination as a sort of test case rather than starting out by trainwrecking the remaining hundred or so. (No particular ten, I just picked the first ten alphabetically). I invite anyone from this project who is interested to comment. In particular, if anyone here has not seen my previous posts about PROD-tagging cultivars and would have opposed had they seen them earlier, or did object but didn't wish to say so, now is the time. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:57, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Phase 2 is now up at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tillandsia 'Gunalda', with 50 bundled this time. Again, I invite anyone who is interested to comment, particularly anyone in opposition, or anyone who has located sources for any of the nominated articles. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:12, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Phase 3 up at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tillandsia 'Pink Panther'. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:19, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I was working on a draft for this species called Draft:Loxostylis alata.(It is currently not done so the draft is kinda messy and needs fixing.)

However, when I looked at the genus for this species at Loxostylis. It appears Loxostylis alata is the only species in its genus and that the genus is monotypic. What do you guys think, do you guys think I should just move all the stuff I made on my draft and move it to Loxostylis or what? Any idea is helpful.CycoMa (talk) 14:46, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• @CycoMa: yea, we only do one article for monotypic taxa. Note that if a clade has only one extant species, and other extinct species, that’s not monotypic. If you want to do it quick and dirty you can just dump all the stuff from your draft into a § called Loxostylis alata. --awkwafaba (📥) 15:52, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi all. Related to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Plants#Quercus_bumelioides above, I'm working through link mismatches between enwiki articles and Commons categories (via Wikidata), and I'm finding a lot of them are related to plants. I'm often not sure if it's the Wikipedia article or the Commons category that needs moving/renaming to resolve the discrepancy (Wikidata often has taxon synonym items, and I've been going off the article/category name to determine the matches). Any chance you can help with these please? (pinging @Premeditated Chaos, CaptainEek, and Plantdrew: as they commented above). I'm happy to help with the technical work, but I don't know the topic. I've listed some below (will continue expanding this as I come across them). You can find the problematic articles in Category:Commons category link is the pagename, Category:Commons category link is defined as the pagename, and Category:Commons category link is locally defined. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:07, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Aporocactus flagelliformis - commons:Category:Aporocactus flagelliformis is a redirect to commons:Category:Disocactus flagelliformis
• Aporocactus martianus - commons:Category:Aporocactus martianus is a redirect to commons:Category:Disocactus martianus
• Echinopsis atacamensis - commons:Category:Echinopsis atacamensis redirects to commons:Category:Leucostele atacamensis
• Echinopsis pampana - commons:Category:Echinopsis pampana redirects to commons:Category:Lobivia pentlandii (after an intermediate category)
• Hebe recurva - is that commons:Category:Veronica odora or commons:Category:Veronica albicans?

See here, Melocactus intortus. Cheers, 2A02:A45D:25BD:1:3011:C945:188C:5563 (talk) 11:20, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why should this be a redlink? It's a valid redirect to the species' genus. You could have a go turning it into an article, if you're interested. Anarchyte (talk) 11:28, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, no, IPs do not get ping backs. It's my understanding all plant species should get their own article, and redirects to genus are not "valid". By redirecting to the genus, these articles don't get created, hence a redlink is best practice. 2A02:A45D:25BD:1:3011:C945:188C:5563 (talk) 11:46, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

When redirects exist in lieu of an article, it can be tagged with ((r with possibilities)). The article can still be created from a redirect at any time by anyone (indeed, it becomes easier as IPs and new editors don't have the power to edit redlinks). Anarchyte (talk) 12:36, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Heterotypic synonyms have "disappeared" for viewing from POWO for species that have accepted infraspecies. This is temporary, as Kew has moved them to the autonyms which are not available for viewing online. In an email I received today, Rafaël Govaerts said the ability to view autonyms online should happen in the next few weeks. Eewilson (talk) 23:39, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, is subvariety used to classify plants geographically like variety? if so or not, please show me a well-explained example! thank you! BloxyColaSweet (talk) 03:05, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Classification is not by geography but by population differences, anyway subvariety is a term I have never used but I do see that it is not uncommon - see this google search:^[1]