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It's unclear to me what is meant by the word "client" in the article. I think the term needs to be introduced or explained. sbump (talk) 22:17, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
This is the portion that needs revision;
"Early history Extant sources provide no conclusive evidence whether the Banu Qurayza were ethnically Jewish or Arab converts to Judaism.[1] Just like the other Jews of Yathrib, the Qurayza claimed to be of Israelite descent[3] and observed the commandments of Judaism, but adopted many Arab customs and intermarried with Arabs.[1]"
1) There are customs in the middle east, common to all semitic peoples. For example arranged marriages, and "equal tribal exchange;" that practice was done by the ancient Hebrews, the Ishmaelites, the Babylonians, the Sumerians basically, everyone who was semitic. You can't adopt, something that is already part of your culture. Although there were tribal differences, customs across all semitic groups were fundamentally the same.
2) Even in pre-Islamic times, the Arabs were a fiercely proud people, and past the time of Jacob and his sons, Ishmaelites did not marry Hebrews. The Arabs of pre-Islamic times were fiercely proud, and fierce sectarian, so intermarriage was highly unlikely. Indeed, Arab sectarianism has in fact done a lot to damage the health of Misrahi Jews; because of heavy inbreeding, many Misrahi Jews suffer from genetic diseases, and often have them at even higher rates than ashkenazim. In Israeli hospitals, the overwhelming majority of still births, tend to come from the misrahi community. Misrahi babies tend to be stillborn, because they did not mix much with the Arabs, whose considerably larger numbers has let them get away with inbreeding for years. Within the Arab genepool, the population was large enough, and varied enough, because they absorbed many semitic tribes, that suffering from the effects of inbreeding has been minimal. Congenital birth defects are common in Saudi Arabia, but not nearly so common, as they are among Misrahi and to a certain extent, Sephardic Jews. I say that Arab sectarianism has damaged the health of middle eastern Jews, because their refusal to let daughters or sons marry Jews, forced many to inbreed to survive and keep themselves alive as a separate tribal group. The reason some misrahi Jews have lighter colored skin, has nothing to do with them having European blood but rather, it is albinism that results from heavy, unhealthy inbreeding. To a certain extent, albinism due to inbreeding also occurs among the Arabs; some even have blonde hair.
3) A healthy semitic person's skin color, ranges from light olive (roughly the same shade as a southern Italian, or a Cretan or Cypriot Greek), to dark, reddish olive (like with Egyptians). An unhealthy semitic person, will have a skin color that looks "unnatural." How can I put this another way? Light skin, is natural and healthy, to people from northern Europe, but in the middle east, if someone does not have European, Northern Iranian, Kurdish or Armenian blood, then light skin IS NOT healthy, its a sign of heavy inbreeding.
One of the biggest health concerns of the Arabian peninsula outside wounds inflicted in war, are congenital birth defects; in Saudi Arabia, congenital birth disorders are by far the biggest headache faced by doctors there. Also, for all its rapid population growth, many Arab families in the Arabian peninsula often have women that give birth to babies that are stillborn, that is babies born dead, because of some genetic defect caused by inbreeding. Year by year, in virtually all Arab countries, the number of stillbirths is steadily increasing. At the current rates, semites, as a people, will likely become extinct within the next 1,000 years.
Once again the lighter skin seen in the middle east lately IS NOT healthy; a semitic person is supposed to be dark.
Its okay for ashkenazi Jews, because they have European blood in them, the semitic in them is only around 3 to 10%. In other words lighter skin is normal for them; however its NOT normal for a semitic person with little to no European admixture.
Please look more deeply into Arab sectarianism, and revise the article if you so wish it.
67.148.120.72 (talk)stardingo747 —Preceding undated comment added 06:51, 22 April 2009 (UTC).
And who says so? Under which authority do you speak? Let me just note:
So please leave this article alone. Thank you very much! Str1977 (talk) 19:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
The use of the word "demise" in the heading came after a lengthy discussion and mediation (Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/Banu Qurayza). The mediator summarized it as "Everyone agrees to using Demise in the heading". The word was a compromise between "massacre" and "execution" (both of which were objected to by various parties).Bless sins (talk) 21:40, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Why is "(sm.)" included after every mention of the name Muhammad? This is an encyclopedia, not a religious text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.75.240 (talk) 17:36, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
And it's happening here: Talk:Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#How_is_this_not_a_POV_fork_of_Banu_Qurayza.3F Your thoughts are invited!— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 17:49, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
What significance is there to the accidental similarity of the sentence given the Banu Qurayza and Deuteronomy? There is no known causal connection and none of the sources are claiming that there is. This is a comparison to another religion or aspects of that religion that has nothing to do with the subject. It's also a comparison to atavistic aspects of Deuteronomy prior to developments of Ezekiel. Is the purpose to show that Muhammad was a throwback to an earlier ethos? If so, this should be in the analysis section as it is commentary, not history. It is "undue weight" to use such comparisons that reflect the interests of a minority of authors who have other agendas aside from discussing this episode in Muhammad's life. Jason from nyc (talk) 14:02, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Thought about sharing some sources that state that Saad's vedict was given according to the rules of Banū Qurayzah’s own religion, specifically the Book of Deuteronomy (20:10-15):
--TalkJizya (talk) 11:21, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Taking exact phrasing of a quote out of context is misleading. No source claims ibn Ishaq tells us that Deuteronomy was used to determine the sentence. The word "according" has this implication when the word is taken out of context. Which source states that Islamic texts give us evidence that Deuteronomy was being used? At best a few tell us that the sentence was consistent with Deuteronomy and we shouldn't imply a further causal connection. Jason from nyc (talk) 12:53, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
@Jazon from nyc: You're levying certain claims without providing sufficient evidence. You're saying, "it's out of context" without showing how a whole phrase from different multiple source all using nearly the same terminology is "out of context". Your comments are also astoundingly incomprehensible, no "source claims ibn Ishaq tells us that Deuteronomy was used to determine the sentence", but how is Ibn Ishaq the only source of the history/biography of the Prophet Muhammad? No, the word "according" doesn't have that implication, stop trying to do the bush around the beating. It doesn't matter which Islamic source state that Deuteronomy was used, what matters is that we have a bunch of reliable sources all stating that this was the case. If we used "Islamic source" as a metric most of the things stated in this article would have been deleted, such as the Western scholarship and the academic papers on this subject, something that we'll agree (I hope) can't be sustained. No, at best all sources tell us that this arbitration was according to Deuteronomy. --TalkJizya (talk) 13:04, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
@Jason from nyc: Stop lying, it's you who first made these bold edits without any justifications https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Banu_Qurayza&diff=736724567&oldid=736700834 which @Eperoton: reverted (rightly so!)
I already gave you plenty of sources that state that "Sa'ad's verdict was according to Deuteronomy"and not "Sa'ad's verdict coincided with Book of Moses", and here they are
I will revert your edit per WP:BRD, have a nice sunny day --TalkJizya (talk) 14:02, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps with some apologetic intent, the late English scholar Martin Lings notes, correctly, that Sa`d's judgment accords with that of the law of Moses as recorded in Dunt. 20:10-14. See Lings, p. 232 n. 1. Daniel C. Peterson. Muhammad, Prophet of God (Kindle Locations 2627-2628). Kindle Edition.
It is pointed out that this sentence was given according to the rules of Banū Qurayzah’s own religion, specifically the Book of Deuteronomy (20:10–15). Footnote: See Ḥammīdullāh, Muslim Conduct of State, pp. 241 f.; Ḥammīdullāh, Battlefields, p. 3, footnote no. 1; Yamani, “Humanitarian International Law in Islam,” p. 203; Boisard, Jihad: A Commitment to Universal Peace, p. 38; Lings, Muhammad, p. 232; Stewart, Unfolding Islam, p. 85. Al-Dawoody, The Islamic Law of War, Palgrave Macmillan, p.27.
To summarize, biblical Judaism appears to have quite a bloody military record. Rabbinic Judaism has virtually none. Simple historical contextualization suggests a simple and logical reason this great about-face in Judaism. Rabbinic Judaism remained quietist and innocent because it was rendered absolutely incapable of being militant. [...] Islam, like biblical Judaism, emerged out of an environment in which it was required to fight in order to survive. Rabbinic Judaism and Christianity, on the other hand, emerged out of an environment in which they were required to refrain from fighting in order to survive. p. 81
@Jason from nyc: The sources are clear, al-Dawoody source says "It is pointed out that this sentence was given according to the rules of Banu Qurayzah's own religion, … Deuteronomy (20:something)" --TalkJizya (talk) 16:09, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
@Eperoton: I think you made a basic mistake here, al-Dawoody's Islamic Law of War is a reduced version of his Phd thesis, in which he omits references for the sake of brevity, in his Phd thesis he references
Which are all reliable references. Martin Lings is, contrary to what you purported, the author of a famous, widely acclaimed and award winning biography of the Prophet. Many universities still employ it in their academic courses on Islam. Ahmed Zaki Yamani's article is in a peer reviewed journal, it is also a reliable reference, obviously. Muhammad Hamidullah is undoubtedly a professional and expert in what relates to Prophetic biographies, he's the one who found manuscripts coming from (the then thought to be lost) Ibn Ishaq's biography and who edited and published them, he also wrote many books on the Prophet and his biography including a book fully dedicated to military missions during his life. If there's an expert here it's without doubt him.
--TalkJizya (talk) 16:09, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
@Eperoton: I talked about the number of references, you only quoted a few when he quoted much more in his thesis, since, as pointed above, that was made for the sake of brevity. I didn't argue for that, I argued that here we have a view that is frequent. The dispute here is not on whether we should reflect that view, but on the wording, whether it's "coincided" or "was ... according to". --TalkJizya (talk) 16:27, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
@Eperoton: No, I did not misread al-Dawoody's footnote, here's his footnote in his Phd thesis:
As I said, it's not about Judaic Law, it's about how Sa'ad perceived it, and how he made that verdict. And that's the subject, which relates to biographical elements of the life of the Prophet. And here, for example, Hamidullah is undoubtedly relevant here as such an expert. --TalkJizya (talk) 16:48, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Could you clarify exactly your last concern? Why are you too afraid to instead of quoting other sources quoting other sources, quote these last sources? = in this case Muhammad Hamidullah, Battlefields, p.3, footnote n 1 : "... the prisoners of war of the battle of Banu Quraizah, who were not killed on the battlefield, but after the surrender and at the decision of the arbitrator of their own choice who applied to them their own Biblical law (Deuteronomy, XX. 13-14) and their own practice (cf. infra 206)." I'm not a super duper hyper ultra expert in English, but I'm pretty confident that "applied to them" gives the sense of intent.
--TalkJizya (talk) 17:13, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
No, did you suddenly forget the other sources and particularly Ahmed al-Dawoody who was pretty explicit on that point (without even mentioning the references he gave in that relevant footnote)? --TalkJizya (talk) 17:48, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
Even if you were to levy that claim, al-Dawoody states "It is pointed out that..." meaning that such statement is mentioned in the references he gave. The new version completely ignores that, as do Hamidullah is the only one who stated that, and all of this because you're too busy checking sources discussing other said sources instead of actually looking directly into these sources. --TalkJizya (talk) 18:09, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
I doubt that after the Hamidullah, Battlefields episode. I don't have enough time to go through all the sources (working still on the jizya article, and as you may know, translations take an awful lot of time), what I'm saying is that the al-Dawoody source very clearly points out that this decision had an intent element in it, and the references he gave point to that. We shouldn't disregard that. Furthermore, you seem to be violating WP's fundamental premise. We don't look at a premise and check for sources confirming it, rather we look for all the relevant verifiable source and try to illustrate them in an encyclopedic way, something that you didn't do, as the Hamidullah, Battlefields episode constructively shows. --TalkJizya (talk) 18:21, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
@Eperoton: Which specific part are you referring to? --TalkJizya (talk) 18:36, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
@Jason from nyc: It seems @Eperoton: was the one who did some effort, at least. --TalkJizya (talk) 18:36, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
And here's another one from Muslim scholar and expert on Prophetic biography Shibli Nomani: Sirat-un-Nabi, vol.2, pp.119-121. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TalkJizya (talk • contribs) 18:40, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
So all the sources I gave are "few". So accurate... --TalkJizya (talk) 18:47, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
But at this point, since you can't even appreciate or realize how authoritative Muhammad Hamidullah's src, since he's the guy who EDITED IBN ISHAQ, you know that biography that is the center of research in Western academia? At a point in time when it was thought to be lost! he wrote dozens of books on the Seerah. In the larger scheme of things, debating this article has been a tremendous time sink and the debate just doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I think I will take this occasion to WP:DISENGAGE. I think there have been too many contradictory viewpoints here and not enough cooperative spirit to reach a consensus, without mentioning the POV fork, the push on WP:PEACOCK language ("goes as far as to say", HOW DARE HE!!!)...etc. I'll concentrate for the time now only on the Jizya article. --TalkJizya (talk) 11:40, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
@Eperoton: No, Ibn Ishaq's original Seerah was much larger, Ibn Hisham removed many elements from it, Hamidullah actually found the original manuscripts of Ibn Ishaq which was thought to be lost (and that only Ibn Hisham version remained). I'm not thinking about Sahifat Hammam, which is a Hadith collection that has no relation to Ibn Ishaq. You're also misinterpreting here many elements, it is unanimously known that Sa'ad was the ally of Banu Qurayza's tribe, and he had knowledge about their law (and not biblical narratives). So where is this presumed contradiction? --TalkJizya (talk) 13:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
@Jason from nyc: Do you know what WP:DISENGAGE means? --TalkJizya (talk) 13:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
This once was discussed years ago with no conclusion. There was once a consensus not to include this assertion as a case of undue weight given to a fringe position. However, time and again editors have also tried to restore this. I'm neutral as to wether to include this or not but if included, a passage on actual Jewish jurisprudence must be included as well. I have restored this passage as it once existed. It can be tweaked of course but not removed, unless the whole paragraph goes. Str1977 (talk) 18:53, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
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"Summarizing" the views of many scholars does not equal misquoting those scholars. What you just called "summarizing" attempt in fact amounts to misrepresentation of those scholars' position. Consider your statement that "Watt argues that the treatment of Qurayza was regular Arab practice," which ignores Watt's very next comment: "but on a larger scale than usual." Surely, anyone can see what huge difference your exclusion of Watt's clause just mentioned entails.
Ditto with your comment where your treatment of the scholars looks more like driving a herd of cattle: "Similar statements are made by Stillman, Paret, Lewis and Rodinson."
Rodinson, just to give ONE example, has a nuanced judgement on this inhuman incident. After examining the so called mitigating circumstances in his "Mohammed," Rodinson states "Details emerge even from these very texts which make it difficult to accept the Prophet's innocence (pp. 213). Likewise, in his "A Critical Survey..." (p. 77, note 142), Rodinson is critical of Paret's remark that this incident shouldn't be judged in light of our moral conceptions. Thus it is simply WRONG to bracket Rodinson's nuanced judgment in some allegedly "similar statements."
The scholarly way; -- rather the ONLY way; -- is to avoid such "summarizing" attempts altogether and quote the scholars verbatim. Let their views be quoted accurately and presented faithfully. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Khasif746 (talk • contribs) 17:53, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:07, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
It's written on this article that a muslim woman got assaulted and {Guillaume 363} is one of the sources.
But after reading it multiple times I found no story like that on the page (363), and the story is completely different.
Here the page if you're curious
https://archive.org/details/GuillaumeATheLifeOfMuhammad/page/n203/mode/2up
So I changed the text to match what was written in the source.
But a user, HistoryofIran always revert my edit and doesn't want to cooperate when asked to provide any proofs such as screenshots or photos of the sources' pages he claimed.
It appears like we can just write anything on references as long as people don't notice that it's untrue, huh?
Arief1982 (talk) 12:17, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
Lol, why did you edit your statement? why did you remove my comment?
You already explained well enough? lol, here's the screenshot if anyone is curious
https://i.ibb.co/Yc6kntN/aaa4.jpg
And here's the screenshot of the claimed source {Guillaume 363}
https://i.ibb.co/n0zw7bL/5555.jpg
Arief1982 (talk) 12:48, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
Yeah the discussion with my last comment deleted by you.
You called that explanation? pfft..
Here, read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fictitious_references
If any fictitious references are found on a page, they, and any information they solely support, shall be immediately removed upon discovery.
Arief1982 (talk) 18:53, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
This article is not considered a good article because of it demonstrates a biased perspective with fundamental deficiencies, both factual and logical. Walid Arafat's groundbreaking 1976 JRAS article, convincingly demonstrates the mythological nature of the account of the massacre of the Qurayza tribe with a thorough exploration of the facts and fallacies, further exemplified by Muhammad Munir's 2016 paper in the Islamabad Law Review which rebuts M. J. Kister's 1986 attempt to dismiss Arafat's thesis. Past Wikipedia contributors, relying heavily and uncritically on orientalist, derivative or dubious accounts, have inexplicably overlooked both Arafat's and Munir's peer reviewed contributions to the literature in the process. In the first instance, almost everyone refers to Ibn Ishaq's biography of the Prophet which is known to be unreliable because of its fabrications - the Banu Qurayza account therein conflicting with the account given in Surah Ahzab in the Qur'an - and reason, besides being contradictory and imprecise. Compounding matters, the motives of the Prophet throughout the Wikipedia article concerned are consistently couched in negative or pejorative terms demonstrating an ideological bias against him and conflicting strongly with what would be fair and just in the case of someone confronted with the same or a similar situation. This page therefore requires a significant rewrite to update its content - if not then maybe two pages on the same subject might be appropriate; thereby leaving in place the current page complete with major deficiencies as is, supplemented by a second page mainstreaming the mythological nature of the incident based on the findings of modern scholarship. 2A0C:5BC0:40:10E8:CAD9:D2FF:FE15:3A28 (talk) 14:37, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
@Louis P. Boog You added to the article text:
Historians Fred Donner[113] and Tom Holland[114] cast doubt not on the scale of the killings, but on their having happened at all, arguing that existence of the tribe and its slaughter is at odds with a more reliable document known as the Constitution of Medina. ...
However in the page that you cited (page 73), what Fred Donner actually says is:
For example, whereas the traditional sources describe in great detail his conflict with the three main Jewish clans of Medina—the Qaynuqa, Nadir, and Qurayza—none of these clans is even mentioned in the umma document. How are we to interpret their omission from the document? Is the umma document's silence on them evidence that the document was only drawn up late in Muhammad's life, after these three Jewish tribes had already been vanquished? Or were there once clauses (or other documents) that were simply lost or that were dropped as irrelevant after these tribes were no longer present in Medina? Or should we interpret this silence as evidence that the stories about Muhammad's clashes with the Jews of Medina are greatly exaggerated (or perhaps invented completely) by later Muslim tradition—perhaps as part of the project of depicting Muhammad as a true prophet , which involved overcoming resistance of those around him? These and many other questions remain to be resolved by future scholarship.
Clearly, Donner is merely presenting possibilities as to why those three prominent Jewish tribes are not in the Umma document (also known as the Constitution of Medina), and the first possibility he gives actually acknowledges the existence of those three Jewish tribes, and that the constitution was only drawn up after those three tribes' elimination by Muhammad. The second possibility is that the document is flawed, with missing parts. While the third possibility is that those three Jewish tribes did not exist at all. Yet again, these are merely possibilities he came up with, and nowhere does he say that the third possibility is the most likely. So clearly the text you included misrepresents the source. Also, nowhere does he say that the constitution of Medina is more reliable than the reports that mention those three Jewish tribes. In fact, FYI, the primary source of the constitution is actually Ibn Ishaq, and Ibn Ishaq along with other Sira and Hadith scholars also record the story of those three Jewish tribes, in detail. So if all the accounts that mention those three Jewish tribes are false, then of course the Constitution of Medina is also false. Regarding the Tom Holland source you cite, the version I have access to does not have pages numbered. Could you take a photo or screenshot of them so I can check it? — Kaalakaa (talk) 20:48, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
nowhere does he say that the constitution of Medina is more reliable than the reports that mention those three Jewish tribes
— Kaalakaa (talk) 05:13, 1 December 2023 (UTC)It is disputed whether [the Constitution of Medina] is a single document or a collation of several, at what point it (or its component parts) was drawn up, whether it is a unilateral edict or a negotiated settlement, who the principal parties to it were. It is not even clear how it should be translated, so obscure and ambivalent are many of its key terms. Finally, because the rest of the tradition regarding Muhammad's life (including the Qur'an itself) is so bitterly contested, we do not have an agreed upon documentary context within which the Constitution might be interpreted.
The umma document raises many perplexing questions in view of the traditional sources’ description of Muhammad’s relations with the Jews of Medina. For example, whereas the traditional sources describe in great detail his conflicts with the three main Jewish clans of Medina— the Qaynuqa’, Nadir, and Qurayza — none of these clans is even mentioned in the umma document. How are we to interpret their omission from the document? Is the umma document's silence on them evidence that the document was only drawn up late in Muhammad’s life, after these three Jewish tribes had already been vanquished? Or were there once clauses (or other documents) that were simply lost or that were dropped as irrelevant after these tribes were no longer present in Medina? Or should we interpret this silence as evidence that the stories about Muhammad’s clashes with the Jews of Medina are greatly exaggerated (or perhaps invented completely) by later Muslim tradition— perhaps as part of the project of depicting Muhammad as a true prophet, which involved overcoming the stubborn resistance of those around him?[4]
--Louis P. Boog (talk)"initially ... given their backing to the Prophet, and then after turning fractious, to have been variously driven into exile or massacred and dumped into pits. Yet there are serious difficulties in accepting this tradition as true. It is not simply that the three Jewish clans mentioned by the historian do not feature anywhere in the Constitution of Medina. There is also another, and familiar, problem: That our only sources for the annihilation of these Jews are all suspiciously late. Not only that, but they date from the heyday of Muslim greatness: a period when the authors would have had every interest in fabricating the sanction of the Prophet for the brusque slapping down of uppity infidels. Certainly, if it were truly the case that entire communities of Jews had been expelled into the desert or else wiped out by Ishaelites in a bloodbath, then no contemporary seems to noted it. This, at a time when Jews, just like Christians, had never been more alert to the propaganda value of martyrs, is most peculiar. So peculiar, in fact, as to appear downright implausible."
Many of the Hadith and the Sira are reports that were transmitted orally from generation to generation and later collected into books, so it is only natural that the language style follows the changes of the times, ...
Rather than deleting my edits couldn't they have been toned down to ...
Tom Holland ...: Yet there are serious difficulties in accepting this tradition as true. It is not simply that the three Jewish clans mentioned by the historian do not feature anywhere in the Constitution of Medina. There is also another, and familiar, problem: That our only sources for the annihilation of these Jews are all suspiciously late.
The "umma document," sometimes also called the "Constitution of Medina," ... The original documents are now lost, but the text is preserved, with mostly minor variations, in two early Islamic literary texts: the Sira (a biography of the prophet) of Muhammad ibn Ishaq (died ca. 150/767), and the Kitab al-amwal (a book on property) of Abu 'Ubayd al-Qasim ibn Sallam (died 224/838).
I can't believe that someone who lectures other editors and deletes edits wholesale wouldn't know that hadith are supposed to be passed down verbatim
Sahih al-Bukhari 3320
إِذَا وَقَعَ الذُّبَابُ فِي شَرَابِ أَحَدِكُمْ فَلْيَغْمِسْهُ، ثُمَّ لِيَنْزِعْهُ، فَإِنَّ فِي إِحْدَى جَنَاحَيْهِ دَاءً وَالأُخْرَى شِفَاءً ".
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink) and take it out, for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."
Sunan Abi Dawud 3844
إِذَا وَقَعَ الذُّبَابُ فِي إِنَاءِ أَحَدِكُمْ فَامْقُلُوهُ فَإِنَّ فِي أَحَدِ جَنَاحَيْهِ دَاءً وَفِي الآخَرِ شِفَاءً وَإِنَّهُ يَتَّقِي بِجَنَاحِهِ الَّذِي فِيهِ الدَّاءُ فَلْيَغْمِسْهُ كُلَّهُ " .
Abu Hurairah reported the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) as saying:
when a fly alights in anyone’s vessel, he should plunge it all in, for in one of its wings there is a disease, and in the other is a cure. It prevents the wing of it is which there is a cure, so plunge it all in (the vessel).
— Kaalakaa (talk) 12:55, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Sunan Ibn Majah 3504
فِي أَحَدِ جَنَاحَىِ الذُّبَابِ سُمٌّ وَفِي الآخَرِ شِفَاءٌ فَإِذَا وَقَعَ فِي الطَّعَامِ فَامْقُلُوهُ فِيهِ فَإِنَّهُ يُقَدِّمُ السُّمَّ وَيُؤَخِّرُ الشِّفَاءَ "
Abu Sa’eed narrated that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
“On one of the wings of a fly there is a poison and on the other is the cure. If it falls into the food, then dip it into it, for it puts the poison first and holds back the cure.”
--Louis P. Boog (talk) 05:37, 4 December 2023 (UTC)No later falsifier writing under the Umayyads or 'Abbasids would have included non-Muslims in the ummah, would have retained the articles against Quraysh, and would have given Muhammad so insignificant a place. Moreover the style is archaic, and certain points, such as the use of believers instead of Muslims in most articles, belong to the earlier Medinan period.[5]
— Kaalakaa (talk) 05:52, 4 December 2023 (UTC)It seems probable, then, that the three main Jewish groups are not mentioned in the document. If that is so, the document in its present form might belong to the period after the elimination of Qurayzah. The difficulty that much attention is given to Jewish affairs at a time when there were few Jews in Medina could be explained by the hypothesis that the document in its final form was intended as a charter for the Jews remaining in Medina and included all relevant articles from earlier forms of the Constitution of the city.
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the term massacred in the foreword is a mislabelling and unfactual, there was peace negotiations and the majority of the tribe fled to syria, as i tried to edit in, many afterwards seeked refuge with the prophet or even converted, only the men left behind in the fortresses were later killed according to Sa'd ibn Mu'aadhs judgement IyadQadi (talk) 15:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
Please mention the pledge of Aqabah in the aws and khazraj section as it is essential to the history and it nonmention gives a distorted picture IyadQadi (talk) 15:57, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
historic accounts dont mention that the qiblah was changed because of jews, Prophet prayed for the qiblah to change many months in mecca before the encounter, see "65 Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh))".
please verify and change IyadQadi (talk) 16:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
IyadQadi Kaalakaa deleted my date of the massacre, (i.e. 627 CE), with the edit summary: "Page x? It also seems WP:OR to me. It only cites Muir as the source but says that Muir is using an unreliable chronology. It does not make sense." He is referring to the note (which I copied from another article Siege of Banu Qurayza), namely:
I would argue the unreliable chronology refers to the days of the digging of the trench and not what year the massacre took place, but let's say I'm wrong and Muir is wrong and we don't know the year the Banu Qurayza were eliminated. As it stands, someone reading the beginning of the lede without much knowledge of Islam has no idea when the killings took place. Shouldn't the lede say something like "the exact year it took place is unknown, but it occurred between 622 and 630" in either 626 or 627", or "historians disagree when it took place"? --Louis P. Boog (talk) 03:38, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
unreliable chronology.' Again, that's WP:OR, which is why I reverted it. Regarding the date of the incident, I just added it along with sources that support it. — Kaalakaa (talk) 09:05, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
I just read this page and I must say there is a significant mention of the names Stillman and Watt (like 50 times collectively). It's consistent throughout, whole paragraphs dedicated to what some non-muslims think and then some mention of what muslims say in 2-3 lines; with a caveat added if it's too vindicating, like this " Meir J. Kister has contradicted".This paragraph I find particularly reprehensible: "Tariq Ramadan argues that Muhammad deviated from his earlier, more lenient treatment of prisoners as this was seen "as sign of weakness if not madness", Peterson concurs that the Muslims wanted to deter future treachery by setting an example with severe punishment."It's just baseless speculation, with some name-calling added. Why are these contemporary secondary sources given so much weight without even providing the underlying basis for their speculation? Mohammed Al-Keesh (talk) 06:33, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
Articles should be based on reliable, independent, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." And here is what independent source means, according to WP:IIS "
An independent source is a source that has no vested interest in a given Wikipedia topic and therefore is commonly expected to cover the topic from a disinterested perspective." Also, please see WP:YESBIAS that:
— Kaalakaa (talk) 02:00, 3 December 2023 (UTC)NPOV means neutral editing, not neutral content. It means "neutrally reflecting what the sources say. It does not mean that the article has to be 'neutral'." We do not document "neutral facts or opinions". Instead, we write about all facts and referenced opinions (that aren't solely based on primary sources) neutrally, even when those facts and opinions present bias.
These two authors, in addition to their arguments being WP:FRINGE and having been rejected and refuted by top-quality scholars,[1][2][3] are also clearly not independent sources, which is a requirement of our WP:SOURCE policy. W. N. Arafat's argument, in particular, is absolutely erroneous, assuming that all the reports of the massacre of the Banu Qurayza come only from Ibn Ishaq and thus attacking him vigorously. In fact, the two most respected hadith collections, Bukhari and Muslim, as well as Abu Dawud and al-Tirmidhi, also report the massacre [8][9][10][11]. I am deleting the section that presents their arguments, as the inclusion is also clearly WP:FALSEBALANCE and WP:UNDUE. — Kaalakaa (talk) 18:07, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
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