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This topic has become very relevant in recent days and is worth additional discussion. What ways do you suggest we make the page more readable or easier to understand the organization of the gangs? Jurisdicta (talk) 17:32, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Should this page be retitled to something more specific, like maybe specifying the time period? Right now, it could refer to any gang war in Haiti, of which there's been a lot. CoyotesKenning (talk) 15:33, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've read many sources that claim that the 2023-2024 surge of violence in Haiti is essentially a civil war, and the only reason why the label isn't being used is that the parties involved are criminal gangs. Randomuser335S (talk) 19:16, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The issue is that be changing the title, in my view, is that it mean wikipedia would be the first ones declaring it. So far, most sources still refer to it as "gang war". I would suggest waiting until the consensus shifts to this being a civil war. Declan Newton (talk) 14:45, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: If you want to move the article, a) start a proper move discussion and b) no source calls this a "civil war" [one source mentioned above even outright denies that this is a civil war]. In contrast, many sources use the term "gang war". Wikipedia follows reliable sources, not our feelings on what "might" happen. Applodion (talk) 15:09, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What about 'riots' then? Hope we could reach consensus. Plenty of sources say these are riots. The source you was writing about said it was 'criminal state creation' - in contradiction to a 'gang war' and in fact something in the middle. IHaveBecauseOfLocks (talk) 15:22, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@IHaveBecauseOfLocks: "Riots" does not convey the fact that these are organized groups waging a multi-year conflict; furthermore sources which use "riots" (such as this or this) talk about specific events during the overall conflict, not the entire fighting. In contrast, "gang war" is specifically used by sources to talk about the entire conflict (for example, see here, here, and here). That being said, I'm open to discuss other potential titles such as Haitian conflict, as long as they are sourced. Personally, I think that a more common name will emerge in the sources once Henry leaves offices and we finally see what direction the country is headed. Perhaps the title of this article will end up as "Fall of the Third Haitian Republic". Who knows. Applodion (talk) 19:33, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A 'Haitian conflict' would be cool. Just seems it would be better with making it more specific. There has been many conflicts in Haiti over the history... - Just as CoyotesKenning was also proposing rename of this 'Gang war in Haiti' into "something more specific" in this talk page one section up from this one. IHaveBecauseOfLocks (talk) 19:29, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rather than renaming the article, I would suggest focusing primarily on improving it. There is no doubt that there was a gang war in 2022. Has that war between gangs ended? -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥19:32, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SashiRolls: The gang war is ongoing. The sources still mention that the gangs keep fighting each other; for instance, this Reuters article from this month mentions ongoing clashes between G-Pep and G9. However, G9 has become so powerful that most media attention is given to them instead of the other gangs. Applodion (talk) 19:38, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even if it still holds true that there is a gang war, it does not mean, it might have evolved into a broad conflict. As one of the mentioned sources said, it is 'creation of a criminal state' (at least not yet a terrorist one). Some people just have gang mentality, and what is more, they are in fact ruling several countries at least. I mean, the label 'gang' does not separate them from other human groups vying for government positions. I just thought that making the reader aware of this would be nice - that they are in fact political actors these or other gangs.. And well, they removed Henry now.
Despite reluctance to admit they are political actors, by fait accompli maybe it could be admited they are? Because fait accompli at this point they do have certainly. IHaveBecauseOfLocks (talk) 09:26, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is also because they are targeting the government, literally trying a coup d'etat + Guy Philippe targeting to rule - theoretically sources do not say he is a member of a gang, but he is influencing them, they have connections with him: a politician, released from US prison. Like you said "most media attention is given to them" but also because of their power to succeed with ousting the prime minister acting also as president all the while evading the international military operation looming over them for half a year. IHaveBecauseOfLocks (talk) 09:12, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously this is an ongoing situation, but a large chunk of the sourcing for the newest content added to the page are tweets. And many of them seem to lack relevance or newsworthiness. Some are in French, there's an Elon tweet, and a Matt Gaetz tweet. 71.11.5.2 (talk) 17:38, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There should be some mention in this entry of sexual violence as one of the gangs' methods of intimidation. [1] You can find a lot of NGO sources on this. If someone worked on this, it would be much appreciated. Cheers, -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥21:15, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I admit it is noble to care about this aspect. Although it completely should not stand as an obstacle in atmitting a group is not a political actor - as can be seen by looking at Afghanistan for example. Recent developments show also other such victories. Even as these ruling authorities conflict with western worldview. I just mean sober realism. IHaveBecauseOfLocks (talk) 09:36, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what you're talking about. The lack of coverage of this issue in the entry needed fixing and has nothing to do with the lack of consensus for your desire to rename the page.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥09:46, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]