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Your article could use a section on demography, including the ethnic makeup. A population figure is in the info box but could be included in the demographics section as well. Is Wigan growing? That sort of thing. I had need of ethnicity info for a report. --Pat (talk) 15:33, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I was at the infirmary Wigan today (without a camera) and there are some really nice buildings around the town - the infirmary being one of them. Couldn't someone local treat us to some piccies in the article? Richerman (talk) 00:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
As with other towns, distances should be measured as-the-crow-flies rather than by road. For this reason, Wigan is not 21 miles from Liverpool, but 17. Draw a 21 mile radius circle around Liverpool and you will go way past Wigan. It just so happens that Manchester is the same distance. Stating the distances are similar, but giving compass bearings, is not the same as stating Wigan is halfway between the two. This would only be true if the compass points were exactly opposed e.g. south west and north east. I think the current sentence about distances from Liverpool and Manchester is adequate and not at all complicated. --TimTay (talk) 17:16, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Tim (?), you will find that the article on Wigan is 'run' by editors who consider themselves to be 'Wiganers'. No matter what the true facts, you will NEVER shift these people to admit that their 'town' is closer to Liverpool than it is to Manchester. It proved very hard to persuade them to believe that their parish churches come under the Diocese of Liverpool. (fnaaar fnaaaar) Whatever true facts you put on here, will be removed in order to promote a brightly coloured image of what is, in reality, just a small ex mill town. As it stands, the article contains rubbish and cannot be used as a reliable source of information. Colin.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.161.89 (talk) 17:36 31 March 2008
It will be difficult to pursuade 'Wiganers' to accept that Wigan is closer to Liverpool than Manchester as simple geography shows that it is not. What this has to do with the article anyway I have no idea. Wigan is indeed under the Diocese of Liverpool, again what is the point? Man2 (talk) 17:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Wiganers identify a lot more with manchester than liverpool, hence their allignment with it. Is Jamaica closer to Wisconsin or Africa? And where do you think the rastas identify with most? Distance is no measure of attachment between places, it's just a number. Sorry, pointless comment, but I had to say it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.152.198.113 (talk) 12:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I would suggest, as this article is about the town of Wigan, that information posted is restricted to the town of Wigan, rather than other towns which could be many miles away from Wigan. For instance, the 'famous people' section contains names of persons from within the Metropolitan Borough, of which Wigan is the main 'town', but are actually nothing to do with Wigan. I notice people mentioned from as far away as Burnley!?! Information about other towns in the same 'Metropolitan Borough' as Wigan is part of, should be entered in the article on that particular town, as well as in the article on the 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan'. Colin.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.161.89 (talk) 17:36 31 March 2008
It will be difficult to pursuade 'Wiganers' to accept that Wigan is closer to Liverpool than Manchester as simple geography —Preceding unsigned comment added by Man2 (talk • contribs) 17:33, 31 March 2008
OK, people, please note that I have posted on 'discussion' and not on the article. This is the ourpose of 'discussion' so I am breaking no rules.
I am expressing my honest opinion of this article. The fact of the matter is this .... Wigan, as a 'town' bearing that name, is only small.
The 'Metropolitan Borough', which also bears that name, is much, much larger. However, not all towns (and there are many) in that Metropolitan Borough are called Wigan, only one is.
My opinion is that the 'town of' Wigan should be separated from all the other towns in the Metropolitan Borough of the same name.
Residents in Leigh, for instance, dislike being referred to as Wigan people and rightly so. They are in Leigh, not Wigan.
If there was only one article, covering the whole of the Metropolitan Borough, then so be it but, there is articles on both the 'town of' Wigan and the 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan' so they should be used accordingly.
Famous people from Leigh shouldn't be noted as being 'from Wigan', just the same as people from Wigan shouldn't be regarded as being 'from Leigh' (or Hindley, or Atherton, or Ashton in Makerfield etc. etc. etc.)
The article on Wigan is seriously wrong and, please, don't think I don't know what I'm saying, as I live just out of Wigan (the town of) myself.
Colin (not jemmy but closely related) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.161.89 (talk) 13:29, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Tim,
The list is endless.
Tim, you say you removed Georgie Fame, although he was from Leigh, some of the listed persons are further from Wigan than Leigh is!
Colin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.161.89 (talk) 22:07, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
The above point (about Pemberton) has been sorted for at least a year. Pemberton is an area of the town of Wigan, not a separate district of the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan. This has been show to be correct time and time again. Thanks Man2 (talk) 10:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Man2 ... I notice that you still can't come to terms with the difference between a 'council area' and a named place. Like I've told you before, Wigan and Pemberton, although administered by the same council, are different places, with different names. Officially! Pemberton is not, and never has been, a part of the 'town' called Wigan. Pemberton is separated from Wigan by the River Douglas and one of it's tributaries and is only as much a 'part of Wigan' as all the other towns which form the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan. Due to the Local Government Act 1894, Pemberton 'Urban District Council' was desolved in 1908 (Wigan Archive Service keep records of Pemberton UDC up to this date). Just the two 'councils' merged, Pemberton itself did not become part of the 'town' of Wigan, it joined a borough 'along with' Wigan. The two town councils became one body, forming the County Borough of Wigan. Due to the Local Government Act 1972, many other towns councils, some miles from Wigan, all joined together to form the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, not the 'Massive Town of Wigan'. You need to do some studying, Man2. I presume you live in Pemberton and like to consider yourself as being 'from' Wigan. I'm afraid you know very little about the history of your own area. Colin.
Tim, as you will undoubtedly be aware, there are people here who would immediately erase whatever I, or anyone else for that matter, put onto this article, even though my contributions are always supported by official sources (maybe not by Wikipedia, I mean 'official' sources). Colin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.161.89 (talk) 23:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi Colin,
I notice you quoted the following words to Man2 :-
'I notice that you still can't come to terms with the difference between a 'council area' and a named place. Like I've told you before'
Where did you tell him before???
You're new here aren't you Colin??????????????????
Geez, what an idiot!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.187.124 (talk • contribs) 01:52, 6 April 2008
Until some SERIOUS research is done and TRUE FACTS posted on articles such as this one, Wikipedia will remain an UNRELIABLE and UNTRUE source of information. This is wrong, due to sites like this being used by teachers to source information for their pupils. How idiotic it is, to fill children's heads with the wrong information!
PS ... to whoever posted the last reply, (Man2), I can inform you that I held a management position with the National Coal Board for 12 years, so your impression of me won't be shared by many. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.161.89 (talk • contribs) 18:10, 6 April 2008
Jemmy H AKA Tonker AKA Colin = SOCKPUPPET
I still see that you are mistaking me of being Man2. Thanks for sharing your past details although I'm not interested. I'm surprised you didn't mention how many properties you own in the area, you usually bore the pants off us with that one! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.187.124 (talk • contribs) 18:27, 6 April 2008
Just to make it clear, I did not post the above comment. Thanks. Man2 (talk) 18:20, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok. I know who it was. Please yourselves, if you wish to continue to display wrong information, do so. What I can't understand is, why not PROVE your comments rather than write off someone elses? I suspect it's because you can't? Rather than childish 'namecalling', source the facts! Colin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.161.89 (talk) 18:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
DO NOT FEED THE TROLL! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.187.124 (talk) 20:35, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
http://www.wigan.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/D5DA1AA7-B094-45EE-941D-9C11895A643B/0/agetownship23Kb.pdf
Above is the 2001 Census taken by Wigan Metropolitan Borough Council. The town of Wigan is included in Wigan North and a small part in Wigan South. Contained in Wigan North and Wigan South are the following towns and villages :- Standish - Aspull - Wigan - Ince - Pemberton - a small section of Orrell east of the M6 motorway.
As you will see, the total population figure for ALL these places , according to the official council census, is ...... 73,184 (some 7000 less than the article's claimed figure for Wigan alone). And 'Wigan' (the town of) is only a fraction of that total area. (council estimate for Wigan itself is 18,000 to 20,000)
The 'Urban Area' population, published by National Statistics, takes a different and much larger area into account. The 'Wigan Metropolitan Borough' population total takes a combination of 'some' of the Wigan Urban Area plus 'some' of the Greater Manchester Urban Area plus a couple of Stand Alone Urban Areas.
Bring back standardization. It's no wonder Wigan people don't know where Wigan is!
Colin80.193.161.89 (talk) 18:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Pemberton is an area of Wigan 'town', not a district of the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan.This has been established for some time. Refer to the article for sources. Thanks. Man2 (talk) 21:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Pemberton 'council' was annexed to Wigan 'council' to create Wigan County Borough. Wigan couldn't become a 'county borough' on it's own because it had too low a population. Councils may join together, adminisration may change, administrative areas may change, local government boundaries may move frequently, BUT, land boundaries are subject to land law and councils cannot change them. Pemberton is only part of Wigan 'borough', it is NOT a section of the town of Wigan. I defy anyone to find official evidence which proves that Pemberton has ever been made part of Wigan, other than for council / administrative purposes. Every source offered explains how Pemberton UDC was disbanded and annexed to Wigan UDC to create Wigan County Borough. Two towns, Pemberton and Wigan, one governing body, a Borough, with a Borough Council. A 'borough' is not a town, it is an administrative area which can consist of two, or more, towns. That original 'borough' is now referred to, officially, as 'the former Wigan county borough' and it consists of two places, Wigan AND Pemberton. Even Wigan Metropolitan Borough Council have confirmed this fact. The council freely display the River Douglas as part of the boundary between Wigan and Pemberton. They know that the joining of the two towns was purely for local government purposes. Man2, you insist on commenting 'this has been established for some time', when it's only 'established' to you, on Wikipedia! The fact as explained by myself is a Historically and Officially Established, to those who matter. It is an actual fact and should be displayed on Wikipedia.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/image.aspx?compid=41379&filename=fig15.gif&pubid=288
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=41381&strquery=pemberton
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Pemberton/
Colin80.193.161.89 (talk) 22:42, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Some good sources there Jemmy. They're at least a 100 years old. I've got to go now, I want a cup of tea but have to milk the cow first.
77.96.187.124 (talk) 23:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Wigan and Pemberton have defined boundaries, the settlements contained within them have not. Colin80.193.161.89 (talk) 00:22, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
The old 'County Borough of Wigan' was the 'town' of Wigan. Pemberton was moved into the County Borough of Wigan, thus becoming 'part' of 'Wigan'. It ceased to be a standalone place. This explains the roadsign saying 'Wigan' on Pemberton Road as you enter the 'town' of Wigan from the 'Metropolitan Borough of Wigan'. Thanks. Man2 (talk) 15:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank god !, I'm so tired of going over old ground again and again. JemmyH/Colin has made some valuable contributions in the past but he must accept that he is wrong regarding both this point and the point regarding Wigan's population. Like Jza84 said this is a closed debate.Man2 (talk) 15:37, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
I also see no reason to carry on the discussion, however, I would point out that PRE 1974 evidence of Pemberton being 'separate' form Wigan, far outweighs any POST 1974 evidence, simply because NO POST 1974 evidence has been forwarded. The only shown evidence of Pemberton being 'part of' Wigan has been ADMINISTRATIVE (council / local government) which has never been denied. Colin80.193.161.89 (talk) 19:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Colin80.193.161.89 (talk) 21:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Not connected to the above, just a question for anyone who may know. Why did the Metropolitan Boroughs of Bolton, Stockport and Doncaster apply for city status in recent years, but the Wigan Borough, with a larger population than all three, did not?. Just out of personal interest. Thanks Man2 (talk) 22:48, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Jza84. The outlying settlement concept was one I had not really considered, but it makes sense. To incorporate towns, such as Leigh and Atherton, with distinct identities into the 'City of Wigan' would be difficult to justify. I certainly agree with the point regarding the CBD. Was just a question I'd considered whilst looking at the City status in the United Kingdom article. Thanks again. Man2 (talk) 01:02, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
and if Standish is anything to go by their would be vocal opposition to being absorbed by a larger neighbours title. 83.104.138.141 (talk) 18:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Would all contributors to this page please respect wikipedia policy on civility and discuss things in a calm manner. That way we can all consider the arguments, and not the editors. Signing your contributions with four tildes (ie ~~~~) helps us to work out who said what, and implies that you stand by what you write. Mr Stephen (talk) 11:43, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree. This is not a page for arguing amongst editors. --DavidD4scnrt (talk) 05:26, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
I beg to differ. This page is meant for debate over articles. How else could problems be sorted other than this? If you have nothing to add to the discussions on this page, please refrain from posting! Collin80.193.161.89 (talk) 18:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand the following sentence taken from the Early History section. "Whilst there is evidence of Roman activity, namely coins being found during construction work and the most recent finding, a hypocaust system discovered during the construction of the foundations for a new shopping centre in the town centre, there is no conclusive evidence of Wigan lying on the same site." If the construction was in Wigan town centre how can Wigan not be on the same site? Richerman (talk) 11:11, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I have heard the "humble pie" explanation of the use of "Pie Eaters" before but in: Pies and Prejudice: In Search of the North by Stuart Maconie He states that there is no evidence for this and that in actual fact Wiganers just like pies. Should this be added to the section? Watford147 (talk) 16:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
I do have the book myself, I'll dig it out tomorrow! I've never altered a page before so I'll give it a bit of thought. Thanks! Watford147 (talk) 12:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I've taken the following text out of the article:
The novel Rose by Martin Cruz Smith is centred around the Victorian era coal mining community in Scholes, a predominately poor Irish Quarter and is contrasted by conditions of the ruling local lord of the manor, based somewhat on The Earl of Balcarress of Haigh Hall, near Wigan.
The novel itself does not seem notable, certainly not as notable as Wigan Peer, and since it's a novel rather than historical commentary (such as the quotes from the antiquarians used elsewhere in the article) it's not exactly reliable. I understand the point is that the lord of the manor lived in better conditions than most of the town, but as he is the lord of the area it's hardly uprising and not something I think needs illustrating. If someone feels that it belongs in the article and can provide a convincing argument, please discuss it here. Nev1 (talk) 20:26, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Main article: Uncle Joe's Mint Balls Uncle Joe's Mint balls are widely regarded as a vital part of Wigan culture and tradition by residents and visitors alike. The world famous confectioneries or 'sweets' as they are affectionately known by 'Wiganers' are on sale around the UK by William J. Santus & Co. through supermarkets such as Tesco. In popular culture, Uncle Joe's are made note of in the song by Mike Harding[1], and are always on the kitchen worktop by Mark and Jeremy's dining table in Channel 4's Peep Show.
I have removed the above text as it's unencyclopedic. Last time I did this, it was reinstated as an editor asserted that it was important to the culture of the town. Unfortunately, the text fails to say why this is or back up the claim. It's not notable that the sweets have been seen on TV or are sold nationwide, but what is notable is that the business that produces them is based in Wigan. As such the company is mentioned in the economy section, however I do not believe it belongs under the heading of culture. Nev1 (talk) 20:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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