An editor thinks something might be wrong with this page. They can't be arsed to fix it, but can rest assured that they've done their encyclopedic duty by sticking on a tag.Please allow this tag to languish indefinitely at the top of the page, since nobody knows exactly what the tagging editor was worked up about.


Jag är Ikea.
This user stands with Sweden.
Je suis Ikea.

... or panic madly and freak out?
Have you come here to rant at me? It is water off a duck's back.

Attention on Propaganda Articles and misleading edits in List of Rajputs

Hello Sitush The articles Thakur Yugal Kishore Sinha looks like the content uploader 'Prabhatmishra1985' (who has been blocked earlier) is running a propagandist agenda and presenting mostly hoax and over exaggerated facts in disguise of some real facts.He has inserted the names of son and grandson of Thakur Yugal Kishore Sinha & Ram Dulari Sinha in many places including the top slot of the wiki page political families of Bihar. How can a couple's children who have never ever been a legislator,parliamentarian or held any constitutional office or had any political relevance be forcefully presented as 'important political personalities of Bihar'? Is it a place to promote or falsely portray individuals?

Secondly, In the page political families of Bihar,there are seasoned families whose several generations of leaders have held highest constitutional offices in India/bihar and there are families producing several ministers and Chief Ministers;how come the couple of Thakur Yugal Kishore Sinha & Ram Dulari Sinha be considered a 'political dynasty or family of Bihar' when after the couple none of their children or grand child ever won any election in state or held any important constitutional office or in short never got the people's mandate.

Also, the user 'Prabhatmishra1985' has strangely added the couple in the FIRST place of the national 'List of Rajputs'- 'Politicians of India'. He has removed much much important historic,political and constitutional personalities of India belonging to Rajput Caste and inserted Thakur Yugal Kishore Sinha at the TOP of list who was only a one time MP and .If his his wife Ram Dulari Sinha (Who may be included as she held post of a Governor) is included then why not other Rajputs who have held the office of Governor of several states and some who became Governors & CMs many times?. There are hundreds of prominent Rajputs who have been MPs and members of first Lok Sabha of India and there are some who even have been CMs, Governors and central ministers,then how come only Thakur Yugal Kishore Sinha who doesn't qualify to be placed at the 'Top' is allowed there?Kindly ensure only content backed by realistic sources and genuine importance are uploaded.


Neutral parties on Bengal famine of 1943?

Hello Sitush.

I have no recollection at all how I started working on Bengal famine of 1943. I grew up in suburban US in a rural state, and all of my relatives are very rural 'Muricans. I don't give a flying hoot about the Raj. If anything at all... I can come clean and confess to being obsessively perfectionist (in many but not all cases; sometimes I DGAF, esp. for pop culture crap) about Wikipedia. I probably have lost friends because of it, in fact.

I spent a year rewriting Bengal famine of 1943 because it was massively POV horse manure. I made a half-completed list of all the POV aspects, and even half done, it was distressing. Huge aspects never even mentioned, etc. That list is given on the MilHist try I think.

I acknowledge that I perceive Fowler&Fowler to be an admitted pro-British POV editor because of this comment: "This is in part because BFo1943 is only obliquely military history. In fact to cast it as military history is to buy into a POV out there that exceptional war time conditions allowed the famine to fly under the radar of British responsibility."

F&F has already asserted that he thinks I worked in userspace to protect a POV.

Are there any very experienced and very neutral editors who can help satisfy F&F's demands that the article must be checked?

Having said all that, I have to confess: I very clearly believe (and invite you to consider the possibility) that there are exactly three forums in the whole of Wikipedia that even come close to being equipped to handle this article. Those three forums are WP:FAC, WP:FAC, and WP:FAC. GA? Please. PR? Well, yeah, in theory, but in practice it is undermanned. It is designed to be of lesser quality than FAC. MILHIST? Same as PR, plus A- level reviewers are all at FAC already anyhow... In FAC people have to stow away their POV, and the best reviewers in Wikipedia congregate at FAC. I would be quite content for the article to sit three or four months in FAC, if that's what it takes...

Sigh. I give up; I forgot that you already said at Bish's page that you don't have a good view of the article. Cheers; I'll go bang my head against a wall at WT:FAC.  Lingzhi ♦ [[User talk:Lingzhi|(t

Kumar Vishwas

Don't understand why you are highlighting only negative and unpopular matters related to Kumar Vishwas. You are just deleting the good content and pasting the same material which maligns his image. I have given the references for each edits. Please go through this.

I'm not highlighting anything. I'm just trying to prevent it turning into a hagiography again while copyediting the useful update you gave regarding the molestation case. More importantly, I am concerned that you are trying to insert a copyrighted image. I've explained that on your talk page. - Sitush (talk) 08:44, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you ARE highlighting negative news and I have doubt on your intention. If you have done enough research on this person, don't you know that he has done several shows on mainstream Indian television channels? Have you gathered the information about it and posted here as you have gathered the controversy element? It is a sure thing that you are either being paid for this act or you are getting some benefit in turn of doing this maligning activity. - CreativeEdit (talk) 10:26, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The article mentions some television stuff. - Sitush (talk) 10:46, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your concern about copyrighted image but that image is provided by his office. Also thanks for keeping the update about molestation case. You have also revert the countries visited by him. I have given references for that too. Hope you revert that. Thanks. -Dipupandey (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:53, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I have just tagged the image for deletion. He cannot have taken the photo himself and it appears, for example, in this newspaper. I think that you may need to be careful regarding conflict of interest and suggest that you read the information about this by clicking on the link.
The Vishwas article has for many years been a honeypot for his fans. Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral and, for example, long lists of places that he has visited are of little benefit to the reader. We already name a few, and at one point the list contained something like 40-50 places, which was silly.
I remain concerned about the article because of all the statements related to legal matters. I know that the Indian legal process can be slow and that mountains are often made out of molehills with FIRs etc, but it has long concerned me that we may be placing too much stress on legal matters. However, it is not helpful to counter that by adding to the list of places visited or inserting an incredibly opinionated comment about him having rock star status as if it is Wikipedia who thinks that is so. - Sitush (talk) 08:59, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, I'm not even sure we should accept that image even if it does come from Vishwas's office. He's not exactly known for respecting copyright, is he? - Sitush (talk) 09:06, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
By your words it seems you have some personal problem with Kumar Vishwas. If the pics come from his office, then there is no copyright violation. You are talking about the copyright, then you should know he has given the full credit to the person. Please don't express your personal feelings on such type of prestigious platform. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dipupandey80 (talk • contribs) 09:30, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nveer met the guy, never even heard him speak and, like I said above, I remain concerned about the amount of legal-related stuff in the article. creating a possible imbalance. The image has been deleted as a copyright violation - that was not my decision. - Sitush (talk) 09:33, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Great. Then I think I can use the pic posted by him on his FB page. It seems no problem then? Right?
Secondly, does the wikipedia has problem, if we update about with the country visited by him? If no, then hope you will not revert that too. Looking for your support. Thanks.Dipupandey80 (talk) 09:36, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've not looked at his Facebook page but the chances are high that we cannot use an image from there. Look, the article already has a photo of him so I am not even sure why you are so bothered about this. And I've already explained the issue with the itinerary. I'm beginning to become very concerned now that you are here to promote him. - Sitush (talk) 09:39, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The reason of using his image from FB, is that we can have updated image over here, not from 2009, 8 years old pic, right? And thanks for your out rated concern, I have the same feeling that you are here to defame him.I don't have any reason to not to update his new pic, do you have one? - Dipupandey80 (talk) 09:45, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Read WP:COPYRIGHT. I've also nominated one of the images at Commons for deletion. The uploader shares his name and claims it is "own work", which is fairly implausible given the nature of the photo. While cameras have self-timers, I doubt that was a self-portrait. - Sitush (talk) 09:51, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You never met the guy, never heard him then on what basis you are updating and reverting his page? - Dipupandey80 (talk) 09:47, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
On precisely that basis - I am independent of the subject. - Sitush (talk) 09:49, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's my concern brother. You should have some knowledge about the subject which you are editing. Okay. So lets back on pic topic. You change the pic as of your choice with the latest one. I will have not problem. Is that okay with you? - Dipupandey80 (talk) 09:52, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think you have a fundamental misconception of how Wikipedia is supposed to work. - Sitush (talk) 09:53, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You mean Wikipedia is meant supposed to hide all good things about a person and highlight negative things only? CreativeEdit (talk) 10:29, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Tell me about my concern which I raised earlier. Hope you change the pic and places visited. Keeping the updates is the policy of wikipedia. Hope you will cooperate. - Dipupandey80 (talk) 10:00, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What concern was that? What image are you referring to now? - Sitush (talk) 10:02, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please Check this https://www.facebook.com/KumarVishwas/photos/a.483383168453.287051.58762883453/10155757829638454/?type=1&theater -Dipupandey80 (talk) 10:07, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks. We cannot use that because of WP:COPYRIGHT. He didn't take the picture and we do not have permission from the person who did. - Sitush (talk) 10:08, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
How you can say that he didn't take the pic? How are you using that pic of 2009? Okay, do one thing, you choose the pic. My simple concern is to have updated pic of him on this article. - Dipupandey80 (talk) 10:13, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Please check this too WP:COPYRIGHT[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dipupandey80 (talk • contribs) 10:16, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've already explained why it is unlikely he took the photo. Even if he did, we don't have his permissions to use it, either. The existing photo has been accepted as valid for a long time; aside from anything else, it has EXIF data attached to it which clearly shows its origin. I'm not going hunting for a different photo - better things to do with my time. - Sitush (talk) 10:18, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you have better thing to do then please let me handle this. - Dipupandey80 (talk) 10:24, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Believe me, I would if I thought you understood our policies and guidelines. But you clearly do not understand them yet. - Sitush (talk) 10:26, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I will. But it seems you have not interested to make this page updated. Either you do the editing with updated matters or let me do. - Dipupandey80 (talk) 10:32, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
On what basis you are using this pic? - Dipupandey80 (talk) 10:33, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You mean the picture that is currently in the article? I didn't put it there but it appears to be a valid, policy-compliant photograph of him. I also didn't write the legal-related stuff, although I have copyedited and updated it. I am getting weary of this, and especially now that CreativeEdit has appeared with ludicrous suggestions of paid editing etc. - Sitush (talk) 10:37, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Guidelines for images and other media files
Images, photographs, video and sound files, like written works, are subject to copyright. Someone holds the copyright unless they have explicitly been placed in the public domain. Images, video and sound files on the internet need to be licensed directly from the copyright holder or someone able to license on their behalf. In some cases, fair use guidelines may allow them to be used irrespective of any copyright claims; see Wikipedia:Non-free content for more. Dipupandey80 (talk) 10:35, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. what is your point? - Sitush (talk) 10:47, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's simple... The pic has been uploaded on public domain. So we can use.- Dipupandey80 (talk) 10:49, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Being on Facebook does not mean it is "public domain". It that were the case, we could use any photo posted anywhere on the web. What's more, our policy on non-free use content, which you mention, has specific limitations. Since we already have a valid image, it would be difficult to justify using a non-free one. - Sitush (talk) 10:52, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What about the countries visited by him? - Dipupandey80 (talk) 11:11, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've already explained this above, too. I have no objection to you adding another if you remove one that is already mentioned but we are not some sort of tour diary. A random list of countries adds nothing of note to the reader. - Sitush (talk) 11:16, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, We are not sort of tour diary but it will give information that artist is well known and performed in several countries. No harm in mentioning that. But I think we should his updated pic too. Hope you too agree with this. - Dipupandey80 (talk) 11:19, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sigh. If you can find a photo that is better than the one we have, complies with our policies and is acceptable to other people who are interested in the article then, sure, you could change it. You'd need to seek consensus for the change at Talk:Kumar Vishwas. We already have sources for him being well-known and travelling abroad - we do not need to hammer the point home. - Sitush (talk) 11:24, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you do not revert this edit asap you will likely be blocked for a violation of WP:3RR, for which you have already had a warning, or simply for edit warring during a discussion. - Sitush (talk) 11:28, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your cooperation. Hope you will cooeprate in future too and guide me if needed. Thanks brother. - Dipupandey80 (talk) 11:32, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Dipupandey80: did you understand what I just said? The info you have just added needs to be reverted otherwise you will be blocked from contributing. - Sitush (talk) 11:34, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Brother, I think you have some biasedness. I have revert the changes you mentioned. The fair policy is meant for both of us. I too think you should cooperate. - Dipupandey80 (talk) 11:49, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You have increased the size of the list of countries, despite what I said above. Add one, lose one. - Sitush (talk) 11:51, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Does it is necessary to delete one and then add one? Is this the policy of wikipedia? - Dipupandey80 (talk) 11:59, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The point is you do not have consensus to expand that list which you yourself have said should not become a sort of tour diary. Go back through the history of the article and you will see just how much trouble was caused by previous fans and supporters of Vishwas, who seemed almost to be adding every visit he made.
Do you know CreativeEdit? There is something odd going on, both in terms of the pair of you having an almost single purpose interest in Vishwas and with them popping up in this thread to support you after days of being inactive. I think you and that other account might be better off finding something else on Wikipedia in which to take an interest. - Sitush (talk) 12:05, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It also doesn't actually matter about that list at the moment: you have breached WP:3RR and you cannot do that. - Sitush (talk) 12:11, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Have you changed the pic? It's good one. No I don't know Creativeedit. - Dipupandey80 (talk) 12:13, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

CU results

The interest of the confirmed socks span multiple years for this deleted article. Other contribs may need analysis.

The following accounts are  Possible to WikiCone! as they share the same IP and the first two created their accounts within less than 12 hours of each other:

After evaluation, it would be good for someone to get this into an SPI report to track for future purposes. It also allows a place to report others that you may feel are related or we may tie this to another master eventually. We can worry about tags later. Don't be shy about asking some of the other admins for help sorting this out, Sitush. More eyes may mean that more socks are found.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 13:33, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Berean Hunter. I appreciate your penultimate sentence in particular as I won't have a clue what to do! - Sitush (talk) 13:43, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Insidernews seems to be the oldest of the accounts listed, so any SPI should be opened under that. - Sitush (talk) 13:46, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that there appears to be not only COI but undisclosed paid editing. I think that if you get a posting at COIN, they have a very good likelihood of confirming that and turning up more socks as well. Good group of editors working that board and they will likely turn something up, I predict.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 13:53, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Shivamroy22 created Namit Tiwari, which was soft deleted at AfD and then recreated by Wikicone! earlier this month. I've just put it up for CSD. - Sitush (talk) 14:04, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think Shivpratap22 (talk · contribs) will be connected, and I think the Bhupendra Singh redirect probably needs some sort of protection. - Sitush (talk) 14:34, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Both Shiv22s. Duh.--regentspark (comment) 14:42, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Shivamroy22 created Bhupendra Singh in July 2015 but it was originally created in 2012 by Shivap who is using a different ISP and a little older OS but are geolocating to the exact same place. I'll let this be decided based on behavior. HeyIMShivam is stale but based on behavior would be likely. Nisheethsharan could be a meat in a similar region as the socks further up the page but using a different OS.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 14:44, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
May have all started with this. Compare some of the user names, not just the Shivam ones.—SpacemanSpiff 14:53, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Very good chance.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 15:06, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Where do we start here? SPI report (Bishonen kindly offered to do it when she has some time later) or COIN? Bbb used to give me a bit of grief from time to time for not filing at SPI under the oldest account, which is a particularly confusing issue for this one. - Sitush (talk) 15:13, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Although I can't confirm to the case that Spaceman has pointed out because those accounts are all stale, that is probably the right case to file under. Post at COIN after you have the links to the SPI. If it should turn out that Shivap is blocked then I believe he would be the oldest as a 2005 account and the case might be moved to his name.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 15:24, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think Shivap is connected to this farm, his articles are a bit problematic in terms of poor quality/quantity of references but he usually is quite basic in his content and a random check showed that the subjects are notable, and his topic areas have been pretty much the same since start, and I don't see a real overlap to this group. I think Utcursch or Tito may be able to provide better insight here as there's some crossover with their editing topic areas. —SpacemanSpiff 16:01, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Shiv Pratap Singh Marehra may be found helping the other socks in Special:Undelete/Bhupendra Singh and is close to Shivpratap22 by name.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 16:34, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, grrrr. And I've just found Shivamroy22 and Shivpratap22 creating and pretty much being the only contributors to Balbir Singh "Rang", an article that seems next to impossible to source in English and that really doesn't seem to have any sources at present other than online lists of poetry, ie: nothing about the man himself other than he lived and died. No doubt someone would argue it is worth keeping but if I had my way, I'd bin it, watchlist the thing and hope that whoever does recreate it is competent and not another incarnation of the farm. Creation of a sock/little other input. - Sitush (talk) 17:55, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
SpacemanSpiff, aren't you familiar with Padmalakshmisx? The Charlie Kay Chakkar Mein article was created by Shivamroy22 in October/November 2015 and the next significant bunch of edits came in November from an account that was later CU blocked as a Padmalakshmisx sock. All the early edits of Shivamroy22, across all articles, seem to relate to TV/film, which I think is/was Padmalakshmisx's interest. - Sitush (talk) 18:21, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So, we file it under the existing Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Shivamevolution? Guys, I'm sorry, I did say I'd do it, but I meant a regular simple SPI. I can't handle all the branching-out stuff above, I'm out. Pinging @Utcursch and Titodutta: for you, to see if they can add further likelihoods and complexities. Bishonen | talk 20:39, 21 October 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Definitely getting messy. - Sitush (talk) 23:11, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'll file the SPI in the next few hours. Meanwhile, there's someone you know from when you were buying a flat who is also likely indulging in behavior similar to what's noted above. I've left a note asking for an explanation on one account and a COI warning on the other, maybe Bearian Hunter might see things differently from how I'm seeing them on this new issue? —SpacemanSpiff 03:54, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have bitten the bullet and filed an outline case at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Shivamevolution - it needs work. Pinging SpacemanSpiff, Bishonen, Berean Hunter, Godric on Leave, RegentsPark. - Sitush (talk) 12:07, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

James Farmer image

Sir James Farmer, from his Manchester Times obituary in 1892

To show no hard feelings about a certain other image, and indeed appreciation of your work, I cropped, uploaded and put this image on the article that you wrote, thinking it would be more to the point than a kitten image as you have above. But then, of course I realized that you had found the obituary, so could have probably done so yourself.... so if there is a reason you intentionally didn't, please say so, and accept my apologies instead. (Maybe a kitten would have been better after all!) --GRuban (talk) 14:40, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think because I got to the newspaper via British Newspaper Archive at a time when the Wikipedia Library had some free subscriptions. They were absolutely insistent that we should not copy anything from it, despite the WMF attitude to sources of that age. Since the deal is long over, I guess it really doesn't matter any more. - Sitush (talk) 14:45, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Satya Nadella and Sundar Pichai

Please lock Satya Nadella and Sundar Pichai pages Sitush, many people are coming and deleting references and related content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zingzing1 (talk • contribs) 15:35, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Anant Kumar Hegde

Hi Sitush, There is a lot of useless content in this page can you correct it.--Zingzing1 (talk) 8:01 AM, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

There is no reason why you cannot do so yourself. Just be bold. But don't be reckless - if something is sourced, for example, then you need a good reason to remove it. - Sitush (talk) 11:45, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

'People of India ' confusion

Sitush, please can you advise me if the following is considered reliable or not? India's Communities A-Z: 3 Volume Set Series: People Of India Hardcover: 4206 pages Publisher: Oxford University Press (June 3, 1999) Language: English ISBN-10: 0195633547 ISBN-13: 978-0195633542 I do not think this is the state series. But not sure.

Or see this https://books.google.com/books?id=1lZuAAAAMAAJ

Are the above books reliable?

Acharya63 (talk) 03:12, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That is the "national" series which, as you note, is an OUP publication and considered to be reliable. The "states" series was published by various companies, was politicised and plagiarised the Raj era authors, often without attribution.The People of India gives a bit of information but probably isn't massively relevant to the issue of reliability. - Sitush (talk) 03:35, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks so much for your prompt reply.- Acharya63 (talk) 03:39, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Anangpal Tomar

Hi Sitush,

I removed a text from anangpal tomar about caste of anangpal. You reverted this change and ask me to provide proper summary. Sitush, i already provided a proper summary there that there is no document or proofs about the caste of anangpal tomar. There is no news, article about anangpal tomar or anangpal tanwar. Even everyone knows that anangpal tomar was gurjar but rajput and jats also claim that he belongs to their community. But there is no proper proof for that. Only on the base of a book, you can not decide the history. Atleast there must be some other references also. Please revert back the changes. Thank YouVIRAAT (talk) 06:07, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You removed a statement sourced to a book published by the Oxford University Press. I am sure plenty of different groups "claim" the guy because that is the nature of Indian society: so many groups clamour to be associated with characters they consider would glorify them. If you have reliable sources that support their claims then we could add them to the article, saying that his caste is disputed. But caste-affiliated websites etc are not reliable sources. - Sitush (talk) 06:11, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Karadiya Rajput

Hi Sitush - If / when you have a minute, could I please ask you to look at the recent edits to Karadiya Rajput - Given the editors name, I suspect PoV but some sources don't seem to support the previous version, so (s)he may be right. Thanks - Arjayay (talk) 13:01, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've been watching. Things got messy after the big edits by Lourdes and I lost track of what was going on. I need to try to catch up because I think Lourdes now accepts that they may be a bit out of their depth with classifications etc (see discussion at Talk:Telaga involving them, Kautilya3 and myself). Basically, though, I suspect you are right: in my experience, any editor of an India-related article whose username contains the words "kshatriya", "history" or "truth" ends up being blocked or reverted so often that they give up. Some, of course, then start socking. - Sitush (talk) 13:09, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) Spiffy charged in with his mop four minutes before I did :) Vanamonde (talk) 13:39, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You've got mail

Hello, Sitush. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the ((You've got mail)) or ((ygm)) template.Doug Weller talk 20:37, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The issue at hand

@SpacemanSpiff: @Sitush:
After reading your (SpacemanSpiff) message related to user:Dagduba lokhande, I discussed the matter with user:संदेश हिवाळे / Sandesh Hiwale on his mr wikipedia talk page and he denied any link and felt concerned that because of any misunderstanding his account may remain blocked in future too.
As one can see simillarity between conent intrests of them, prima facia my feeling was Sandesh Hiwale may not be as good enough in english sentence formation as Dagduba lokhande seems. User Sandesh Hiwale has been more polite on talk pages. and third is on Marathi Wikipedia atleast I have seen him largly avoiding edit wars and engages well on talk page discussion. But rather than remaing in suspission it is ok to carry out a cu check if you feel so.


What one defficulty I find in these cases is if some one doing direct mobile edit through source edit tools to add citations and refs are not visible at least the smartphones I have seen uptil now. Certainly I do not want any one to use this as defence of unaccaptable conduct.
I suppose user:Sitush might have been stuying edits related to Dr.Ambedkar and Buddhism related pages for long enough. I want to discuss the social phenomena and may be some ways to deal with the same. 1) Not being aware about encyclopedia is a common issue 2) what adds into that is certain communities looking for social recognition and to do that they add honorifix and hero-worshipng or some unsubtantiated claims which they here from their local socio-political leaders or media. Many of edits may not be as per encyclopedic expectations but many of them may not be intentional bad faith. If we use blocking as a majior tool a risk of sizable community may be getting distanced from editing wikipedia.
My perception is from the previous edit attempts if experienced users like you can find and make list of words sentences to be discouraged, and add edit filters as first measure for specific pages of specific categories. I know english wikipedia is reluctant player on edit filter side but before banning option of filter may be proper.
The second preferable measure is rather than total block may be you have a category block that will allow them to engage on more number of talk pages and non-contro main space pages too and this also can be enforced through edit filters.
(Actually what we do on Marathi Wikipedia is if any one edits any socio-political artical then dependin on edit count the user gets random messages informing them of various encyclopedic values along with the reason behind importance of the value. We prefer to stress more on values than set of rules. Its fine that every project has different culture and requirements So english wikipedia governs differently is understandable)
Last but not least is if at all blocking needs to be used see if it can be limited to one year. In first few instances of undesirable editing.

my laptop has got some flying cursor tech issue.Sorry if any spell mistakes remain due to this reason. AlSo Its taking me time to respond back. Rgds and thanks. Mahitgar (talk) 06:58, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

About Hiwale and प्रसाद साळवे they are most likely from different geographies as per their eidits on mr:wp so far, As such प्रसाद साळवे is very old user on mr:wp compared to Hiwale. While can't predict anything about social media connectivity. Actually I have addressed all of them on Hiwale's talk page on mr:wp and suggested them for few things 1) to prioritise to get Ambedkar And Buddhism related source literature on en-wikisource because to some exantant they may be bit confused between reliability of their sources. If they refer to standard sources they will get .better quality for their subjects of interest. 2) First write down references what you are going to cite on talk pages of the articles before editing the page. 3) preferably try to use more than one source for any single topic . 4) Doing proper referencing
To Hiwale I have shared some PDF of a PHD thesis also for proper referencing of the sources. I will remind him on the same again.
About topic ban per me in main name space if you feel then ok. But atleast for Hiwale and प्रसाद साळवे you can keep user talk page access open on your or Sitush page so you can take into account their legitimate issues and that will help mentoring aspects too. Afterwards let them go to article talk pages and at a later stage in main namespace so I suppose it will help the mentoring better.
For Hiwale to end his six months I think couple of more weeks until then you will have better strategy of mentoring them further according to en:wp set of rules.
Thanks and rgds
Mahitgar (talk) 08:12, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nattukottai Nagarthar Page Content Removal

please understand or research before deleting a content in a page like this which provide information about community as these details not found on internet they don't prove these details are false. some content can't are need to be present in Wikipedia for there novelty. these contents are verifiable in "Nattukottai Nagarathar Seerthirutham" a book by Pandithamani Kathiresan.

Info

Hello, I have just copy-paste your material from User:Sitush/Common to Wikipedia:Potentially unreliable sources via this edit. I don't know, whether I wrote it earlier, but I would like to mention again, should we consider building a Blacklist which can act as source for bots to make reverts? Thanks. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · ) 04:36, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Potentially unreliable does not mean always unreliable, so automated bot reverts probably aren't a good idea. I have no idea regarding operation of the list you mention but doubt it is intended to act as an automated filter. - Sitush (talk) 12:50, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You may possibly be able to help with a problem over sources

Hello, "Sitush". It's many years since you and I had any contact, as far as I remember, though occasionally I come across mentions of you, usually in the form of editors angrily denouncing you for bias in favour of the clan or caste that they presume you belong to, or just in favour of your native land of India. I always find that a little amusing.

I don't know whether you will be able help or not, but a problem has come up in connection with an India-related article, and in view of your experience in that area I thought you just might have something to suggest. The article is Prabir Ghosh. There has been a history of POV editing and edit warring on the article. I made this edit, where, as you can see from my edit summary, I removed content which had been disputed and for which there was no verifiable source. An editor has posted to my talk page about this, saying that there are reliable sources in newspaper reports, but they are old newspapers and not available online. The editor's message and my answer are at User talk:JamesBWatson#Prabir Ghosh. I get the impression that the editor is likely to be be right, but in view of the edit warring, the dispute over the content, and my edit summary in which I said that restoring the content without a verifiable source would be a BLP violation, I don't feel that I can just revert my removal.

In a way there is no reason why you should be more likely to have an answer than anyone else, since the problem of verification of old newspaper reports is not specific to India, but you may be able to help.

There is just one possible solution that I know of. The editor has offered to provide scanned copies of the newspaper reports, but I see two potential problems there: (1) I can't read Bengali, (2) posting copies of newspapers to Wikipedia would raise copyright issues. Point (2) could be dealt with by using email, but with the disadvantage that other readers could not verify the sources. Point (1) could be dealt with if there is a trustworthy editor who can read Bengali who could be consulted. You don't by any chance know of one, do you? Or have any suggestions as to how we could find one? Or any other ideas that might help? The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 09:26, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page watcher) You could try Dwaipayanc, who is still at least slightly active and who as the person who took Darjeeling, Kolkata and West Bengal through FAC is presumably familiar with the area, the language, and Wikipedia policies on sourcing. Winged Blades of Godric is also a Bengali speaker and (after some initial—er—differences of opinion with policy) seems fairly sensible. ‑ Iridescent 09:55, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Iridescent: Thanks very much. I'll try contacting those two and maybe one or other can help. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:06, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Titodutta is a Bengali speaking admin who created a custom search engine for Indian news sources, located at WP:INDAFD. —SpacemanSpiff 11:24, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is almost impossible for me to check 1996 edition of Aajkaal, there is no digital archive, I can try mailing to the office of the newspaper, depending on whether they will reply or not, it will take at least 2-3 weeks to verify this information. --Tito Dutta (talk) 11:56, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Since the editor is willing to email a scanned copy of the text, perhaps Tito can just look at that rather than waiting for aajkaal.--regentspark (comment) 14:12, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to everyone for responding to this and other messages. I'm not very well at the moment. - Sitush (talk) 12:48, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom

ArbCom is in principle the right venue to deal with the Ref Desk issue. But that doesn't man that I don't have issues with the way ArbCom has gone about doing its business. But that's a very long story, it deals with issues that date back almost a decade, you can find some clues here. ArbCom should actually have the guts to mow down a walled garden, even if its' a very large one. Too often they have taken the mistaken but politically correct decision, to not do that. In some cases, the right decision may well be a very unpopular decision... Count Iblis (talk) 21:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have little interest in the opinions of someone whose primary purpose on Wikipedia does not appear to be improvement of articles etc and who repeatedly states fundamentally the same thing on multiple occasions in a single thread while demonstrating a complete inability to understand how we operate. I know you wear your wiki-anarchist badge with pride but, frankly, you come across as rather absurd. And you pretty much always have, in my experience. - Sitush (talk) 22:58, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm usually too busy working on stuff that may eventually end up becoming part of Wikipedia articles. Here on Wikipedia, I've contributed to missing technical stuff of some articles, e.g. the section Gaussian_quadrature#General formula for the weights, which is very important as most readers want to actually know the general formula and some of them may want to read the proof. I understand perfectly well how Wikipedia and AN/I operates, AN/I is worse than this. Count Iblis (talk) 20:43, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I suspect most readers don't give a crap about Gaussian_quadrature#General formula for the weights, and there's something odd about seeing a section that cites no sources even if it is supposed to be a proof. If it took you a while to work it out then that suggests to me that you've engaged in original research.

I don't watch YouTube - can't hear anything on it and the captioning system is useless. - Sitush (talk) 04:22, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Suppose someone needs to do numerical integration when the integrand has singularities at the boundaries. The way to go about is to absorb the singularities in the weight function, this means that you want to know the general formula for Gaussian Quadrature where the weight function is arbitrary. This topic wasn't covered well in sources available online, which is why I decided to write down that section. The audience are then those people who need it, who are able to understand the proof I wrote down, most of whom are not invested in Wikipedia, they don't give a damn about our policies here.
And this is also the attitude I take, I don't care at all about our policies here, most of my contributions to Wikipedia are in violation of our core policies, I have often given fake citation to please the OR warriors here. Who cares if everything is already verifiable from first principles? Only the OR warriors here care, not the people who can actually understand what is written, who will actually read and use the text. So, I see myself as contributing to content available online, not per se to Wikipedia. Count Iblis (talk) 22:15, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

William Beach Thomas

Hey Sitush. This is letting you know that the William Beach Thomas article has been scheduled as today's featured article for December 12, 2017. Please check the article needs no amendments. If you're interested in editing the main page text, you're welcome to do so at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/December 12, 2017.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:35, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Quick comment on this one ... "rewarded him with knighthoods", or "awarded him knighthoods"? I know enough to say that some people may care about the difference, but that's the extent of my knowledge. - Dank (push to talk) 16:42, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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