The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Redirect to Before the Dawn (band) now that a merge has already taken place. Black Kite (t) (c) 23:04, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

4:17 am (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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Music album that doesn't state why it is notable Battleaxe9872 ^{وکیپیڈیا} 21:41, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Fails WP:NALBUMS. No reliable sources on Google. Derild4921☼ 21:51, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I must beg to differ. A google search for "4:17 am Before the Dawn" will bring up numerous results, including one for Amazon, reviews, and Before the Dawn's myspace page. Before the Dawn may not be notable within all music, but they are a fairly notable band within the melodic death metal scene, and I've seen plenty of other melodic death metal band articles with no question on their notability, including bands and albums less popular than this one. Zadion (talk) 22:02, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Amazon and MySpace are not reliable sources. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 22:03, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete insufficient RS to establish notability. Dlabtot (talk) 22:15, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, there are other articles about the album and the band itself, including reviews and album information. Someone has already inserted multiple references from sites such as Metal Storm (among others) for this album. I created the album articles with intention as them being stubs for more information to be added to them by someone else, or myself when I have the time to look up more about them. In addition, as Before the Dawn's album Soundscape of Silence has already had an article on Wikipedia for months while it has little more than a track listing and release date, I assumed this means it constituted as a notable album. If it did, why wouldn't the rest of the full-length albums by the same band? Zadion (talk) 22:21, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to band; sources are mostly fansites and not reliable. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 22:38, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - or if need be, redirect. Before this is deleted, I have tried to add several sources just now, and at least a few must be reliable. I know full well that fan sites are not reliable, but I wonder, When can they be used? Bearian (talk) 22:43, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Before the Dawn (band) unless some wants to merge some of the information over but I don't see anything worth merging. I found a decent review for their next album, perhaps the author could give that one a try. However, expanding and improving the parent article would probably be of most benefit to the encyclopedia. J04n(talk page) 23:33, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If the consensus is to merge, I will do so, because I think there is some information that can flesh out the main article. Bearian (talk) 16:30, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• As an aside, I've never before seen a band's article categorized by the band's country. This one was in Category:Finland. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 02:44, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As another aside, I added Category:Heavy metal albums by Finnish artists instead. Bearian (talk) 16:28, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:12, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note - I have merged all of the substantive information, so a redirect is now ready. Bearian (talk) 21:26, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge - Default action for this is to merge I think. A redirect wouldn't make sense because you use that for ambiguous articles or terms that refer to the same thing. An album does not refer to the band, directly. So a merge is more appropriate. Yankeefan233 (talk) 23:30, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.