The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was KEEP, but some expert editors should take account of the intelligent comments made toward the close of the debate. -Splash - tk 22:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clown society (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

This appears to be a well crafted joke article. It is included in category:satire that gave it away. I can't believe it has been overlooked so far. ZayZayEM 02:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm starting to sense maybe its not a joke. But the current article still doesn't seem very serious and requires attention.--ZayZayEM 01:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - it's almost certainly a joke, but if anyone belabours the point, it also fails WP:ATT --Haemo 03:06, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per above Rackabello 06:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment There are actually several papers on JSTOR (I don't have access) that seem to refer to clown societies and looking at the creator's and the article's edit hx I don't think this is a joke. Somebody with access should check it out.--killing sparrows 07:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - May not be a hoax article per Killing sparrows.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 14:53, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• speedy keep it's actually studied in anthropology, I've added some sources for examples in Pueblos.--BMF81 16:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• strong keep - a quick look at google found a lot of really interesting stuff on this. The article is sourced poorly (less so after BMF81's additions), and not organized well, but I think it can actually be a really fascinating subject. I don't have time to rewrite now (going into work in an hour), but if left I will take it under my wing for a re-write and re-source. It's listed as satire because of the actions of the clowns, not because the article is. A search on google for 'clown society' would have shown this is not a joke article, that many of these exist in Native American culture.Thespian 16:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Further to this, at one point it was suggested Sacred clown be merged into this article. Instead that article was renamed Heyoka, and it gives Clown society as a 'see also'. I think a lot could be done with this article; it needs work, not deletion.Thespian 17:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment And no criticsm for ZayZay for the nom, when you see so much crap around here its easy to see it everywhere. I read the article and thought at first it was a hoax, especially as I hate clowns. And mimes.--killing sparrows 17:27, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - An inspection of the google scholar search for clown society will prove it is a term used in anthropology research. If I have a criticism of the article it is that it's unencyclopedic in tone and borders on original research in places. It's no hoax though. Twospoonfuls 18:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, badly needs cleanup and inline references. --Dhartung | Talk 21:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep, apparently, the author of this article is a member of the clown society (just kidding, Tom). ;-) --Cremepuff222 (talk, review me!) 00:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Attribute properly, and then keep, since the Google Scholar cites show that it is a real anthropological term. -- The Anome 08:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• The problem seems to me to be that the term "clown society" as used in the anthropology literature refers only to the kivas of the puebloeans. Now while there is undoubtedly such a thing as licensed disorder and ritual misrule (the Greek Komos, Saturnalia, the Bakhtinian carnival, Carmena Brurana, etc etc.) there isn't a single term which covers all that. Indeed it is probably too diffuse a subject to fall under one rubric. An article that tried to encompass so much would be an essay without adequate definition rather than an encyclopedia article. I suggest cutting out the sociological speculation and merging the article with Pueblo Clowns. Twospoonfuls 09:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That seems like a good idea to me, particularly if the other material can be merged into licensed disorder, ritual misrule or some similar suitable place. -- The Anome 12:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.