The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dead Flowers

[edit]

Non-notable song. Never charted, no reliable sources. Only consists of a list of artists who have covered the song, with none of the covers having been released as a single or achieved any form of notability. Suggest deletion and moving Dead Flowers (Miranda Lambert song) to this title. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Many otters • One hammer • HELP)} 16:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Rolling Stones songs are notable, no matter which one. This one in particular was part of one of their albums which made the List of Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums of All Time so there's no question it's notable. Agree that the article needs some sources though, but that shouldn't be hard to find. Laurent (talk) 17:08, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No song is automatically notable, regardless of who sang it. Where the heck did you get that from? Also, simply being on a notable album that made a Rolling Stone list doesn't make the song notable either if there are no sources specifically about the song. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Many otters • One hammer • HELP)} 17:16, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've added some sources. Laurent (talk) 17:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One source for a simple fact that can be merged into the album's article. Songs only warrant articles when you can bother to write more than three or four sentences of facts plus four or five more sentences that are all clearly WP:OR. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Many otters • One hammer • HELP)} 17:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:NSONGS, "Songs that have been ranked on national or significant music charts, that have won significant awards or honors or that have been performed independently by several notable artists, bands or groups are probably notable." The article shows that a number of notable artists, like Cowboy Junkies, Gilby Clarke and Poison have covered the song, which would mean that it meets this guideline. Disclaimer: I know it says "probably" in the guideline, so I wouldn't view a merge with the album's article as unreasonable. Umbralcorax (talk) 17:59, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A merge would work. I would suggest merging the verifiable content to the album's article, then moving the Miranda Lambert song to just Dead Flowers and leaving a hatnote for the album on her song. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Many otters • One hammer • HELP)} 18:03, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The only problem I have with that is that we'd lose the edit history from this article if the other song is moved to this title, and as I understand it, if we're doing a merge, we need to keep that history intact per the GFDL (I could be wrong on this, and if I am, feel free to correct me). Perhaps a merge of this article into the album, with a redirect to the Stones' album set up, with a hatnote on that album saying that Dead Flowers redirects there, for the Miranda Lambert song, see that article]]. Umbralcorax (talk) 18:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The edit history can be fixed by moving this article to Dead Flowers (Rolling Stones song) then redirecting, can't it? Then the redirect left behind can be G6'd so the Miranda Lambert song can be moved. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Many otters • One hammer • HELP)} 19:23, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:01, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. A widely-covered and famous song that has been credited with giving birth to Alt-Country (Austin American-Statesman Oct 19, 2006). Plenty of Google News (mostly pay-per-view) and Google Books coverage of the song.--Michig (talk) 19:38, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Is this a serious question? It is widely covered and appears on soundtrack of the famous cult film The Big Lebowski. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Claygate (talk • contribs)
Comment. I'm not convinced the Miranda Lambert song merits an article, let alone taking this article's title.--Michig (talk) 19:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

At least her song is a chart single. I would've redirected hers for now, but I didn't really want to make any more confusion than necessary. I usually redirect singles that are below Top 20, but Lambert's song has a couple more sources, so I'll let it slide even though it just cracked Top 40. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Many otters • One hammer • HELP)} 15:35, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – ("Dead Flowers" + "Jagger") gets 125 hits in my library's database of newspaper and magazine articles. Several writers describe the song as a Stones "classic". I also found the "birth of alt country" reference that Michig noted above. Other examples: Jay Miller of the The Patriot Ledger calls it an "alt country anthem" (Jan. 26, 2009; p. 19) and Rick Mitchell of the Houston Chronicle writes that the song "predated the current crop of country punks by about a quarter century". (Nov. 12, 1995; p. 6). Anthony DeCurtis of Rolling Stone writes, "'Dead Flowers' is possibly the best country-style song that Jagger and Richards have ever written" (May 15, 1997; p. 54). As for the covers, the Cowboy Junkies version got some press, and the Steve Earle one did as well, including in this book. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 22:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per above. — Jake Wartenberg 00:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.