The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. This AfD itself was speedily deleted as vandalism, but subsequent discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2022 July 13 concluded that the speedy deletion was inappropriate, but this AfD should be speedily keep as it was renominated too soon after the first AfD with no new arguments. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 04:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Haya Maraachli[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Haya Maraachli (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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I'm nominating this again because there was no valid argument in previous nomination and notability was not proved in any way. Arguments for keep was "keep because you didn't state a valid reason" which was not true as I stated a lot of valid arguments.

"Currently there are 3 links in the article (2 ref and 1 external link) and none of them is a reliable source. None. Zero. All three of them has Edit button in their pages. All three links can be edited by anyone, anything can be added or edited by anyone on all three sites. So, nothing is verifiable in the first place."

That is still the case, there is zero reliable reference in the article right now.

Another argument for keep was 750K google search results but I said when you actually try to browser pages further it's actually ~100 results and I said I couldn't find any "significant coverage" from reliable sources among them and nobody provided that either. None of the keep voters were able to provide a significant coverage from reliable sources. Someone provided 3 links with a quick search and they consist no significant coverage or reliable source.

I hope this time it gets a more careful examination and valid arguments. Cantthinkausernamenow (talk) 17:07, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  1. Weak Keep. She appears notable. I do acknowledge limitations in my ability to assess the quality of Arabic language sources, and also while a lot of it is tabloid, about her looks and her relationships, examples:
  2. https://al-arrab.com/2022/06/11/%D9%87%D9%8A%D8%A7-%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%B9%D8%B4%D9%84%D9%8A-%D9%82%D8%A8%D9%84-%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%B9%D8%AF/

https://www.elfann.com/arab-celebrities/1321003/%D9%87%D9%8A%D8%A7-%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%B9%D8%B4%D9%84%D9%8A-%D9%82%D8%A8%D9%84-%D8%B3%D9%86%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D8%AE%D8%AA%D9%84%D9%81-%D8%B4%D9%83%D9%84%D9%87%D8%A7-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%88%D9%85%D8%9F--%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%A9

  1. https://alghad.com/%D9%87%D9%8A%D8%A7-%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%B9%D8%B4%D9%84%D9%8A-%D8%AA%D9%86%D8%B4%D8%B1-%D9%84%D8%A3%D9%88%D9%84-%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%B2%D9%88%D8%AC%D9%87%D8%A7/
Sources also talk about her television work here:
  1. https://www.sayidaty.net/node/1408756/%D9%85%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%87%D9%8A%D8%B1/%D9%85%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%87%D9%8A%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8/%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%88%D8%B1-%D9%87%D9%8A%D8%A7-%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%B9%D8%B4%D9%84%D9%8A-%D8%AA%D9%84%D9%81%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D9%86%D8%B8%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%A8%D8%A5%D8%B7%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A9-%D9%85%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%B2%D8%A9
Likewise, this one starts with gossip style content, but then discusses her work:
  1. https://7al.net/2022/03/17/%D9%87%D9%8A%D8%A7-%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%B9%D8%B4%D9%84%D9%8A-%D8%AA%D8%B9%D9%8A%D8%B4-%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%84%D8%A9-%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%A8%D8%B4%D9%83%D9%84-%D8%B3%D8%B1%D9%8A-%D9%84/malek/various/
As I pointed out in the recent AfD (which closed yesterday (I think) as "keep") the existence of English and French language sources, the existence of international attention (Lebanon) also suggests notability. The tendency for media to focus on the superficial should not detract from her roles in multiple productions, and there are people who are notable for reasons that I consider only superficial - there are articles about models and beauty pageant winners. I am also influenced by how recent this AfD is to one closing keep (yesterday or the day before) we should not need to keep repeating arguments like this. I made the !vote weak due to my inability to assess the quality of the sources and the tabloid nature of some content. CT55555 (talk) 23:08, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
CT55555, have you been able to identify significant roles in multiple notable productions?
  • The first source listed is titled "You will not believe how Haya Marachli looks before and after plastic surgery.. you will be shocked!!" (Al-Arrab, Google Translate) and links to "Read also: Haya Maraachli is turning her life upside down... And the reason is her husband's religion? - with evidence" (Al-Arrab, Google Translate). The second source is titled "Haya Marachli 8 years ago... Is her appearance different from today? -Picture" (elfann, Google Translate). This tabloid content is not suitable for inclusion per WP:NOTGOSSIP.
  • In the section described as a discussion of her television work, the first article is titled (Google translated) "In pictures, Haya Maraachli draws attention with a look", includes a picture from her Instagram, and the main story is about her pictures, with brief mentions "Haya Maraachli was absent from the last Ramadan drama season, while she finished filming her scenes in the series “Less Than Adi” [...] Haya's last attendance was by participating in the series "Quaid Unknown"." This does not indicate significant roles in multiple notable productions. The last source listed reports rumors from "The Lebanese "Art" website" about her getting married, includes more of her Instagram pictures, but does state "Haya Maraachli is currently participating in filming her role in a joint Arab drama series, called “Less Than Adi”" and "her father is actor Tariq Maraachli, her mother is actress Randa Maraachli, her paternal grandmother is the Syrian actress Nahid Al-Halabi and her grandfather is the artist Ibrahim Maraachli" and "She presented her first television role at the age of six years, in the series “Abu Al-Fawmehiya” in 2003, but the role that she presented to the audience was in 2011, when she participated in the series “Women’s Sessions” directed by Al-Muthanna Sobh, and in 2011 she won the award for the best emerging Syrian artist".
These sources are tabloid and superficial in the sense that they lack detail and depth about the significance of her roles and the notability of the productions. I support keeping articles at AfD for beauty pageant winners, social media influencers, etc, when there are sufficient sources to support notability, but this type of coverage, in what do not appear to be independent and reliable sources, does not help develop an encyclopedia article. Beccaynr (talk) 04:07, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've read the NOTGOSSIP thing and I think it does not apply, I see this as applying to sources that only contain gossipy content. The source I've listed talk about her marraaige, sectarian differences between her and her husband's family, biographical information and her work, focussing on her work, here's the quotes from the two that mention it (using google translate):
"Haya Maraachli was absent from the last Ramadan drama season, while she finished filming her scenes in the series “Less Than Adi” by Syrian director Nour Arnaout and written by Yam Mashhadi and produced by Ebla International, where the work was filmed in Lebanon. Haya's last attendance was by participating in the series "Quaid Unknown" directed by Al-Sadir Masoud, where she participated in the work championship with Abdel Moneim Amayri, Basil Khayat, Nazli Al-Rawas and other"
The second one:
"Haya Maraachli is currently participating in filming her role in a joint Arab drama series, called “Less Than Adi”, and artistic sources confirm that her participation in this series will be a starring role for the first time in her artistic career.
The series is directed by Nour Arnaout, produced by Ebla International Company for Artistic Production, and along with Haya Jihad Saeed, Wissam Sabbagh, Marwa Al-Atrash and Carmen Labs, in addition to many artists, participates.
Haya Maraachli is considered one of the most prominent young Syrian actresses recently."
So the sources seem a tabloid. I read the tabloid bit at BLP and it seems concerned about accurate information. I'm assuming the content about her acting is accurate.
Anyway, the main thing on my mind as I assess this: is she notable, I still think yes. As per my second source, she is noted as being one of the most prominent Syrian recent women actors. CT55555 (talk) 12:25, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"a starring role for the first time in her artistic career" seems to confirm that she has not had significant roles in multiple notable productions. It also does not confirm that her upcoming role is in a notable production, and even if it is, one significant role is not sufficient for WP:NACTOR notability. That a tabloid-style publication churning her Instagram content also vaguely writes that she is considered "one of the most prominent young Syrian actresses recently" does not appear to be an independent and reliable assessment of a career without any significant roles in notable productions. She does appear to be self-promotional, and is covered sensationally by tabloids, including with rumors and things "heard through the grapevine", but this type of prominence does not support inclusion per the guidelines and policies. We also need more than her relationships to notable people to support a standalone article. Beccaynr (talk) 14:28, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see your point about this all being from one TV show. I'm reconsidering...meanwhile..
Do you consider that we should give any benefit of doubt in the context of:
  1. The local news media operating in country in the midst of a civil war?
  2. Our presumed reliance on machine translation?
  3. I think Syria is the top five worst countries for women's rights, the over focus on her looks etc isn't her fault. High brow media probably is a bit focussed on other things, we might need to rely a bit on tabloidy newspapers for entertainment topics?
Does the English and French and international (Lebanon) media attention give this any extra notability, in your opinion? CT55555 (talk) 14:36, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have added emphasis to WP:BLP concerns because of some reactions to her clothing that I read, which are more severe than simple gawking, and implicate women's rights generally, which seem to make it more of a concern to rely on sensationalist tabloid content than the usual prohibition. A lack of attention from independent and reliable sources seems more attributable to her lack of an established acting career and apparent prominence based mostly on her own self-promotion, which does not justify reliance on tabloid content. She also appears to be of Lebanese descent, and traveled to Lebanon for filming, so attention from Lebanese media does not seem to bolster notability, unless it is non-trivial coverage in independent and reliable sources. I have not found much English or French sourcing, and one source in French: Haya Maraachli avec un look distinctif en noir (newshours24, Dec. 2021) is a blog-style publication that churns her Instagram content and offers similar vague waves at a non-notable acting career. As to the use of Google Translate, given the poor quality of the sources and limited content about her career, I think the translations adequately help us determine there is insufficient support for notability at this time. Beccaynr (talk) 15:40, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK. You've convinced me to remove my weak keep. I'm not ready to vote delete, so I'm essentially abstaining from here. Best, CT55555 (talk) 15:49, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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