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The result was delete. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:05, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Room 77[edit]

Room 77 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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No assertion of notability. Existence is not notability, nor is it notable for the payment types it accepts. MSJapan (talk) 23:48, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, it has notable references. Its payment type is notable.--74.196.114.169 (talk) 04:10, 2 November 2012 (UTC) — 74.196.114.169 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

• IP blocked 72h for socking. MSJapan (talk) 04:31, 4 November 2012 (UTC) [reply]

Delete. My local Fish'n'Chips accepts monopoly money as money. Doesn't make it notable. Dengero (talk) 14:20, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The digital currency is notable, but not the restaurant that accepts it. That fact could be merged into the main article.--Ben Ben (talk) 19:52, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete that this restaurant accepts Bitcoin warrants a mention in the Bitcoin article, not an article. There's no evidence this restaurant is othewise notable StarM 01:16, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Not notable. — ΛΧΣ21™ 02:00, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. ‑Scottywong| communicate _ 22:13, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List of redheads[edit]

List of redheads (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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In theory this is a WP:CSD#G4: A list of this type was deleted at AfD previously on the basis that hair color is a ridiculous, near-indiscriminate basis for a list. If hair color is an appropriate basis for a list article, then why not "List of black-haired people," which would be virtually everyone in several large racial/ethnic groups? The only reason I hesitated and went to AfD instead of speedy is that the previous discussion was in back in 2006. However, the reasoning seems as valid now as it was then, so unless the view of the community has significantly changed, it seems that this article should be deleted. RL0919 (talk) 23:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - My initial reaction, glancing at the topic, was "how ridiculous." But this is a sourced list and there are multiple independently published books on the topic. Volosy krasnyi — chelovek opasnyi. Carrite (talk) 23:36, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Red hair. Far too indiscriminate to be a useful standalone list, but the most famous (not Eric Stoltz) deserve a listing somewhere. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:24, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge per above. Too ridiculous to have an article of its own based on a hair colour. Dengero (talk) 14:22, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep The cited sources include an encyclopedia which contains a similar list of red-headed people and so WP:LISTN is satisfied. Warden (talk) 18:20, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, as per WP:LISTN—sourced? Yes. Notable? Yeh. —Theopolisme 23:23, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Meets LISTN. Glad to see the list does *not* include dyed hair.  The Steve  07:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps members of the list should copy Wikipedia by hand... Ratzd'mishukribo (talk) 04:23, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - previously deleted, why is it any more relevant now? Lukeno94 (talk) 10:46, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Most of the sources in the article were published after the date of that earlier AFD and so we have new evidence to consider. My impression is that redheads, as a group, are getting more attention now. For example, here's a fresh study which is currently appearing in the press. Warden (talk) 11:06, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Even if they are, as the nomination states, we'd need a different article for people of every single hair colour. I fail to see why we would have any standalone article of this type. At the very most, a summary of this article could be put into the Red hair page. This does not need its own article.Lukeno94 (talk) 17:42, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:ALLORNOTHING, "The status of articles on other similar topics has no necessary bearing on a particular article." If people have written about this topic and so made it notable, this does not mean that we have to create similar articles for every other colour of the rainbow. Warden (talk) 18:27, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep There are abundant sources listing redheads; many find it an interesting topic. FeydHuxtable (talk) 20:12, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete in this form. Because of the large size of the group, this will either become unmanageably large or be limited to a random selection of notable redheads; in either case it's not very useful and creates BLP overhead. Categorization is the better approach.  Sandstein  08:20, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep They get coverage for being redheads. Type in any of the names on the list and "redhead" OR "red hair" and you get results. When reliable sources talk about them, they mention this aspect of them. Dream Focus 15:29, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:09, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

New Rural Bank of Binalbagan, Inc.[edit]

New Rural Bank of Binalbagan, Inc. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Unreferenced article for a subject that appears not to meet WP:CORPDEPTH. PROD from another editor was removed with a good faith agreement from original author (see article talk page) to add sources/references once the editor had more experience. Unfortunately, his has not happened. A search for potential references found only a generic directory listing. Stalwart111 (talk) 23:18, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Since no new reliable sources has been added. Lack of notability as is. Dengero (talk) 14:23, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - I'm inclined to delete because I haven't found any significant sources that are English. Google Books found insufficient results including this result that suggests they are active as of November 2011. I'm willing to withdraw my vote if sufficient sources are found. SwisterTwister talk 20:40, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Even with a search without the "Inc." I failed to find anything reliable, whether English or Tagalog (note that most Philippine media is in English). Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:41, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• 'Delete per nom and the commenters' findings. --Lenticel ^(talk) 03:25, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete. WP:G11, WP:A7 and WP:G12 all apply. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:11, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Janhavi Acharekar[edit]

Janhavi Acharekar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Does not meet wp:author. Dwaipayan (talk) 23:16, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Could've prod-ed it. But yes, lack of notability. Dengero (talk) 14:24, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete. A9: Non-notable recording by artist with no Wikipedia entry Yunshui 雲‍水 14:13, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Eclectikos[edit]

Eclectikos (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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The sources provided don't establish notability for the album. A couple of sources listed may give the ensemble some notability but it is very minimal and localized to Southern California. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 22:47, 1 November 2012 (UTC) Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 22:47, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy Delete. Could've speedied with A9. Dengero (talk) 14:26, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Withdrawn by nominator. Apparently there is some disagreement as to how the notability guideline affects a borderline case like this when the sources are single sentence comments about the subject. That needs to be clarified first at WP:NBOOK. SudoGhost 11:06, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Runelight[edit]

Runelight (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Declined PROD. Article has no references that establish notability for the subject; fails WP:GNG and WP:NBOOK SudoGhost 21:26, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have added The Guardian and WorldCat. Noteworthy author. I only created this article as a trial but it has grown. I'm not an expert on book notability so I'll leave it to those who know. Victuallers (talk) 21:35, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Books are not notable by the author's merit (with the exception of WP:BKCRIT #5), they need to be reliable on their own accord. There are two brief reviews, the rest are not reliable sources that go towards any notability, that's not enough to warrant a standalone article. - SudoGhost 21:44, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. I tried to clean up the article somewhat but something I've noticed in general with Harris's articles is that there is a LOT and I mean a LOT of fancruft, non-NPOV, and OR going on in these articles. I'd go so far as to guess that almost all of the articles concerning her need complete overhauls, so the problem in general with this article is fairly widespread throughout the articles concerning her.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 09:44, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Looks acceptable after the clean up. Good job. Dengero (talk) 14:28, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sources are still inadqeuate, the article fails to meet the notability guidelines. How the article "looks" is not relevant. - SudoGhost 15:17, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep multiple independent reliable reviews. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 19:51, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Such as what? There are only two in the article. - SudoGhost 20:04, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Just added. If you want any to verify let me know, they are all in commercial databases. I didn't even add all that showed up, this book has more reviews than most, could add a bunch more if needed. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 20:08, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've looked at a few, they are sorely lacking in depth of any kind. Most of them seem to repeat the back of the book, followed by a brief sentence at the end that gives some sort of analysis. Those are insufficient for establishing any notability, as pointed at at WP:NBOOK. It's kind of telling that they aren't reviews when all of these 'reviews' say word-for-word the exact same thing and are a day or two within being the same exact publication date. - SudoGhost 20:11, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Looking into it further, every one of them in the ~19 November 2011 date range are word-for-word the same exact press release summary. That isn't a review and doesn't contribute to notability. The others like this one are publisher-submitted summaries, not reviews. All books have these, and WP:NBOOK specifically points out that these do not contribute towards the notability of an article. - SudoGhost 20:18, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • There were two dups now removed (wires will share stories across papers), the rest are all original reviews. I don't see evidence of press releases ie. a note at the bottom that sources it to the publisher or text that can be traced back to the publisher. If you believe there is, please be specific which ones and why so they can checked and removed. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 20:39, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • Also to call these reviews "lacking in depth" is not accurate, some of them are long in depth detailed reviews, some others are shorter but they are dedicated reviews of the book. If anyone wants to read these reviews just let me know or post a request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 20:42, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
            • I've looked through the sources, none of them establish any notability for the subject. For example, the "Norse code" reference is about the author with a few sentences actually discussing the book. The "There's a lot of meanness, stupidity and mischief." is a similar situation, about a civic event the author is holding, and mentions the book very briefly. These are sources about the author, and seem to reinforce the fact that this book is not notable, and should at the very least be redirected to the author's article. "Books New Norse tale is one Thor the young adults" is a standard synopsis from the publisher, one repeated word-for-word by other sources you provided. None of these muster any notability for the subject. - SudoGhost 20:53, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, notability is established by WP:BK #1: "The book has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works whose sources are independent of the book itself." I've gone ahead and removed some of the "other sources" you had trouble with and kept the strongest plus the 3 or 4 inline sources is 7 or 8 sources total. They are:

• • Liverpool Echo (book review)
  • School Librarian (book review)
  • Manchester Evening News (book review)
  • Daily Post
  • Daily Post (about the book)
  • The Guardian (book review)
  • Daily Express (book review)
  • Monsters and Critics (book review)

If you still have trouble with these, list specific complaints and we can discuss further. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 21:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• This doesn't satisfy it, this doesn't either. The sources in your subpage (which are copyright violations and should be removed; anyone can Google the titles and find the same results), are about the author, with a brief mention about the book itself, reinforcing that the notability is the author's, not the book's. With that in mind, the article does not satisfy the criteria of WP:NBOOK #1. There are two brief sources which could be said show any notability for actually discussing the book, and that's not sufficient for the book to have a separate article. - SudoGhost 21:42, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Why doesn't Monster and Critics satisfy? Why doesn't the Liberpool satisfy? At least 6 of the sources above are explicit book reviews, the others do go into the book to some various degree that is more than trivial. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 21:51, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Because there's nothing to extract from that; other than the very last sentence, it's a synopsis, not a review. A single sentence is a trivial thing, not something to base an article off of. The others are trhe exact same thing. - SudoGhost 22:18, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• 1. A synopsis is significant coverage for notability purposes. 2. A synopsis is exactly what we need to source the plot section of the article. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 01:58, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's really not, a synopsis that is copied from the publisher is not sufficient. Otherwise most books would be notable. That is not the case; an article must be notable because it has recieved attention, not because a brief summary has been given verifying its existance without giving anything other than the publisher's viewpoint on the matter. An article has a synopsis section, that doesn't mean a synopsis grants an article notability. - SudoGhost 02:31, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Which of these 8 sources is "copied from the publisher", what text specifically in the source(s) is copied from the publisher? -- Green Cardamom (talk) 05:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That you didn't check despite being told numerous times is concerning. Of the ones currently in the article, two of them currently are word-for-word copies of the publisher's synopsis. - SudoGhost 11:06, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep All the reviews look legit, published under a byline by major outlets. Also, one of the removed sources, although a blog, is probably notable due to the Norse Mythology expert who interviewed her. Meets the WP:BASIC.  The Steve  08:10, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. The tricky thing about reviews is that there's nothing that actually states that a one sentence review from a reliable source isn't really usable. There have been countless debates but in the end nothing official has ever really been stated one way or another. Do I necessarily think that every trade review is that in-depth of a source? No, but this is one of those grey areas of RS so until we get an official consensus and have it added to WP:NBOOK, there's not much to be done about it. Until that time comes, the sources in the article show notability.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 08:24, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Dustin Kensrue.  Sandstein  08:28, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This Good Night Is Still Everywhere[edit]

This Good Night Is Still Everywhere (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Does not appear to meet WP:NALBUMS. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:46, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect to Dustin Kensrue. There a two press releases being reproduced in several sites [1] [2]. Once we take those out all I could find were these two. The hungarian site seems reliable as far as I examined it. I cannot open the sputnikmusic review from work, so I can't tell if it's a user or a staff review. Overall, I think it's borderline notable, but in the end I don't feel it is really a significant album, and that reflects directly in the quality and availability of sources — Frankie (talk) 17:52, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2012 November 1. Snotbot  t • c »  21:20, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:06, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Institute of Social Studies Trust[edit]

Institute of Social Studies Trust (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Concerned about the notability of this organization. This article has also lacked sources since it's creation a few years back. May fail GNG. SarahStierch (talk) 22:22, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. No evidence of notability. Fails WP:GNG. Qworty (talk) 23:24, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete per above. Dengero (talk) 14:30, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:17, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List of professional editors who have edited Wikipedia[edit]

List of professional editors who have edited Wikipedia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Meta-list that in my opinion does not belong in the article namespace. Taking to AfD for consensus. §FreeRangeFrog 21:03, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. It can be moved to "Wikipedia:Professional editors who have edited Wikipedia", to match "Wikipedia:Wikipedians with articles", of whose entries its entries are a subset.
  

—Wavelength (talk) 21:18, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment That sounds like a great idea. Definitely would endorse that unless it's against some guideline or policy I'm not familiar with. Cheers. §FreeRangeFrog 21:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. I now realize that "Wikipedia:Wikipedians with articles" (version of 14:34, 31 October 2012) has this notice: "This listing may contain errors and should NOT be used as a source for any page in Wikipedia or publication outside of Wikipedia without doing some independent checking." (Incidentally, the notice contains a dangling modifier.) Because I am not prepared to do independent checking, and I doubt that other editors are, deletion seems to be appropriate. I apologize for any inconvenience caused by my starting the new page.

—Wavelength (talk) 02:43, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• delete the list has quite a arbitrary inclusion criteria. It includes Lambert Meertens who edited the "Revised ALGOL 68 Report" an early spec for computers, but editing the report was just one of the many tasks he performed, really his occupation is its computer scientist. Others on the list are not really editor as their primary profession. I can't see it working either in article space or wikipedia space.--Salix (talk): 21:28, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete – looks like pure original research and synthesis; flaky and non-useful at that, based on the few that I've looked at. Dicklyon (talk) 21:32, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. I don't even think this has a home in project space. As an article in mainspace, there's simply no third-party sources discussing this very narrow intersection of topics, period, and we try to avoid unnecessarily self-referential naval gazing. In project space, I would see several problems here. Clearly, there's no good criteria being applied as to who constitutes a "professional editor", and several of these individuals, while having done some editing work at some point, are not primarily well-known (or even substantively known) in that capacity. Bottom line, this unquestionably doesn't need to be where it is now, and I don't think it's helpful to keep elsewhere, either. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 21:53, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Smells more like a blacklist than an encyclopedic topic. Carrite (talk) 23:22, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

When I started the page, I did not intend it to be a blacklist. I do not consider professional experience to be denigrating.

—Wavelength (talk) 01:06, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Out of interest, what does the article mean by "professional editors" Does it mean "editors who are professional editors of journals" - although this is not very well clarified on the article itself?ACEOREVIVED (talk) 16:22, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• comment Professional editing in Wikipedia might soon be a good encyclopedic topic at the rate it is being discussed, but not this. As mentioned, it's even problematic in WP space. It would have to be defined as Professional editors who have said they are editing WP articles on behalf of clients, and this would seem a too much like advertising for them. DGG ( talk ) 22:14, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) — ΛΧΣ21™ 20:58, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Star system (filmmaking)[edit]

Star system (filmmaking) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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nonnotable original research Curb Chain (talk) 20:35, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak keep The concept seems to have valid references. Although a lot of the article certainly is WP:SYNTH, I don't necessarily agree with it being blatant OR. If the author can clean it up and make it encyclopedic it might merit keeping. §FreeRangeFrog 21:27, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong keep. The Hollywood star system is a well documented phenomenon. The article may need cleaning up, but the subject has been covered by multiple secondary sources: Shocking Representation published by Columbia University Press, Grand Design published by University of California Press, Negotiating Hollywood by University of Minnesota Press, and The 1920's published by Greenwood Publishing. More than adequately meets the general notability guideline.--xanchester (t) 00:51, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:38, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. This article is not perfect, but the star system certainly existed and has been written about, and there is good and referenced content here. Morwen - Talk 22:22, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as a notable topic which has itself been the subject of commentary and analysis in multiple sources. That the article needs some work is a reason to keep it and allow improvements through regular editing, but not to delete it because it is not yet perfect. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 02:20, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Mdann52 (talk) 16:55, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Albina Library[edit]

Albina Library (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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One-sentence article; essentially a permastub. Unsourced. Merge proposal was stonewalled on the claim that a WLL powwow in late October would improve these articles. That date has come and gone, so it's time for this article to go as well, either to be a redirect to Multnomah County Library (where all the info is already in a handy-dandy table) or as outright deletion. It's also the fateful hour for the following other articles:

pbp 19:04, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I should note the Albina is no longer a one sentence "permastub", nor is the Belmont Library article. Other articles could easily be expanded with additional information as well. --Another Believer _(Talk) 16:24, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose deletion. Please refer to previous discussion here, which I have also included below:

From WP:GNG: "If appropriate sources cannot be found after a good-faith search for them, consider merging the article's verifiable content into a broader article providing context." Have you attempted a good-faith search for additional sources? I am certain there are enough to warrant keeping the article(s). Please see the Woodstock Library for a "Good" article of another branch within the Multnomah County Library system.

Albina:

• http://events.multcolib.org/venues/albina-library
• http://www.multcolib.org/agcy/alb-history.html
• http://www.multcolib.org/news/2010/albclosure.html
• http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/albina_library_to_close_for_da.html
• http://www.multcolib.org/news/2009/albclosure.html
• http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/hep-cats-and-hound-dogs/Event?oid=5746289
• http://www3.multco.us/countyproperties/BuildingGeneralInformation.aspx?bldgnbr=602
• http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/ImageArchives?fetaure=Locations&locationCategory=85601&oid=3128870
• https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1794/6186/Albina_Community_Design_Guidelines.pdf?sequence=8

I realize some of these sources might seem less-than-ideal for this discussion, but these are the types of sources used to construct the Woodstock Library article. Time would be better spent expanding these articles rather than fretting about unnecessary deletions. In full disclosure, I created these articles; yes, I could have done a better job expanding them, but that does not mean the articles should be deleted. --Another Believer _(Talk) 19:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Another Believer was the articles' creator pbp 19:33, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I acknowledged this already myself. --Another Believer _(Talk) 19:44, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I must remind you once more, AB, that BEFORE isn't mandatory. Also, I must remind you that you're lucky I didn't nominate these articles for deletion two months ago. You said you'd fix 'em. You didn't. All the information contained in these articles is in the main article already. So there's no reason we need a dozen or more permastubs floating around pbp 19:33, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, AB, you mention merger as an option, yet you opposed merger two months ago. You can't have it both ways...we have guidelines that say you don't leave one-sentence articles indefinetely pbp 20:02, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Policies are at play here, not "luck". My original understanding of the edit-athon's purpose was to expand MCL-related stubs, not Multnomah County-related stubs. This misunderstanding on my part does not take away from the fact that these are legitimate stubs. They are not permastubs... each of them could snowball into a full article. I am sorry I did not have time the past 2 months to expand each of them to your standards. Please note on the Multnomah County Library talk page that other contributors weighed in on the merge/deletion proposal, advocating for the articles' inclusion in the encyclopedia. (I have notified those contributors of this discussion on their talk page, requesting them to comment if they felt so inclined. My messages were simply notifications, not attempts to canvas.) --Another Believer _(Talk) 19:44, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Their arguments ignored WP:PERMASTUB and other relevant policies, so they really don't need to be noted, sorry pbp 20:02, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am not advocating for merging, nor do I consider these articles permastubs. The Woodstock Library article illustrates this very clearly. --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:06, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Um, that's an irrelevant other-stuff-exists argument. Just because Woodstock is a GA doesn't mean that this get to be kept in perpetua on the off chance that they could make GA pbp 20:08, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That wouldn't be an other stuff exists argument, it is refuting the idea that these articles cannot be expanded. Ryan Vesey 20:19, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Ok, time for me to step away. I have made my opinion known. These are clearly articles that could be (and should be) expanded. If you would take time to conduct research and collect sources, I believe you would come to the same conclusion. I will let other contributors weigh in. Again, I am not advocating for merging, but at the very least this should be a merge discussion and not a deletion discussion. --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:20, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(Thank you, Ryan, for articulating my point better than I can.) --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:21, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge All of these and Gresham Library to a necessary Libraries in the Multnomah County Library system article. This allows expansion of the individual libraries until they can be split into their own articles per WP:Summary style. This also allows the table to remain in Multnomah County Library which is the best way of presenting the material in that article. Ryan Vesey 20:29, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I am not advocating for a merge, but it would be more appropriate to put information about branches on the already-existing MCL article than it would be to create another MCL-related article. The MCL article should contain information about the history of the entire branch system as well as a list of branches within the system, linking to articles about each of the branches. There should probably also be a "Multnomah County Library" category, which would contain the MCL article as well as the 18 or so branch articles. This is how the library is categorized on Commons. (See here.) --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:34, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Commons categorization is a poor argument for keeping something. There is no need for MCL to link to the 18 branch libraries' articles, because there is no need for those articles in the first place; Woodstock is the only one with more than a few sentences of content pbp 20:43, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am not using Commons to validate my argument. I am simply providing an example of structure (re: the MCL category on Wikipedia). --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:47, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Created Category:Multnomah County Library. --Another Believer _(Talk) 17:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My argument here is that the Multnomah County Library article already has an effective list that contains the information of all of the libraries. As the articles on the libraries currently stand, most of them are sub-stubs that contain little to no information beyond what is in the list. If no changes were made, the best solution would probably be to redirect all of the sub-stubs to the library system. The problem then becomes, how does the process of expanding the articles about the individual libraries work. It would be overwhelming to create a section for each of the libraries in Multnomah County Library. Instead, under the section heading for branches in Multnomah County Library, there should be ((Main|Libraries in the Multnomah County Library system)) (or Branches of the Multnomah County Library system). In that new article, each library could be given a section and information about the libraries can be expanded there. Once the sections become large enough for their own article, summary style takes in. Until that point, there is no reason to keep these each as separate articles. Ryan Vesey 20:44, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So rather than keeping articles about notable subjects, we would merge them to the MCL article, then create a new MCL-related article with sections about individual branches within the system? Why not simplify the process and just keep the articles so they can be expanded? --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:52, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Because the articles are worthless right now. A centralized article would be much more valuable. And I don't support merging them to MCL first. Ryan Vesey 21:15, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you go to Multnomah County Library and look at the table of branches, you get more information about Belmont Library than the article gives. Ryan Vesey 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

True, at this moment, but that could very easily be changed with just a few sentences for any given branch stub. --Another Believer _(Talk) 21:51, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

a) If present trends continue, no indication that will ever happen, b) at that level, Ryan's "one-article-for-all-the-branches" makes sense. Once we get three paragraphs and an image for each one, then it'd make sense to have articles for each pbp 22:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just spent a few minutes adding several sentences (from 10 sources) to the Belmont Library article. This could very easily be done to the other branches as well... --Another Believer _(Talk) 22:37, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - On procedural grounds until the nominator has shown they made a good-faith effort to search out RS for each nominated article. While BEFORE is not a mandatory thing, BEFORE is a description of a policy, see WP:DEL-REASON, specifically the seventh bullet point. As in, it describes how to meet the criteria. So yes, the searching is in fact mandatory, and has been for the roughly six years I've been around here (in one form or another). We do no exactly delete articles for a lack of notability, we delete articles on topics that are not notable. I detest stubs, but that is a personal opinion and not a policy/guideline based argument. Aboutmovies (talk) 03:16, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Invalid procedural grounds Searching isn't manadatory either, and please address the issue of their notability or their deservingness of an entire article rather than rehashing your (inaccurate) opinion that searches are manadatory pbp 15:17, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Again, yes, searching is mandatory. See the policy WP:DEL-REASON. Again, that's a policy. As demonstrated in this very instance, there is a reason for this being mandatory, and that is to prevent wasted time such as this AfD discussion on topics that a quick search would identify that most, if not all, of these topics are notable. Further, as AfD itself does require the search (as covered in WP:BEFORE) it is in fact required for this process. Mush as at DYK one is required to complete a quid pro quo review if you have so many DYKs under your belt. Failure to do so at DYK will in fact cause the nomination to fail for that reason despite the lack of a policy, much as failure to seek out sources will cause AfD nominations to fail.

Otherwise, it has been clearly demonstrated that the topics are notable. Please consider withdrawal of the nominations as to those that clearly meet the GNG. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:54, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The answer to, "would you withdraw the nominations?" is no. There's only two days left in the AfD; and a number of people did vote merge or delete (the former of which remains a valid vote even with GNG passed). Also, had they not been nominated for deletion, it's quite likely they wouldn't have been sourced for months or years. You're welcome. pbp 6:34 am, Today (UTC−8)

You must not hang out around AfD much. If you did, you would see the common refrain or "AfD is not for clean-up". As in we do not nominate articles to force clean-up. Again, if you reviewed BEFORE, you would see a common theme of basically fix the article if you can, only delete if an article on a topic cannot be fixed due to issues such as NOT or notability. Also if you hung out at them, you will routinely see good closing admins that review the debate, and will note it is not a vote (ergo there are no valid votes, period) but instead will review the debate and will discount early comments, where the comments no longer match the reality of the state of the articles (in general, review the admin guide). No one is thanking you, and no one will until you participate in this process in good faith and search for the sources and add them to the articles. Those who deserve thanks are those who decided to contribute to building Wikipedia. Aboutmovies (talk) 05:17, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose deletion per Aboutmovies, who makes the most compelling argument above. Since it has been alleged that "WP:BEFORE is not mandatory," it seems relevant to also point out that WP:GNG is merely a guideline, not a policy. The policy that govern inclusion are WP:V and WP:NPOV. If I were to put on my guessing hat, I would guess that some of these library branches pass the notability threshold, while others don't. How do we get to a better approach than a guess? Through a good faith search for independent reliable sources.

Ideally, by the nominator, and before this whole collection is even brought up for AfD the first time -- much less the second. -Pete (talk) 06:40, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's only been brought to AfD once... Also, how is NPOV relevant? pbp 15:17, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I was mistaken about the nomination's history -- relevant text struck in my comment above. NPOV is a policy that bears on some deletion discussions, but not this one; I was just making the general point that WP:GNG is not policy. -Pete (talk) 19:21, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A side point about this nomination: I don't think the neologism "permastub," in the first sentence of the nomination, accurately reflects the state of things. Another Believer, who wrote these stubs, brought the similar article Woodstock Library to good article status through peer review. He has a string of GA's under his belt. I don't know where the idea that these would be "perma"nently at stub status came from, but it seems like a strange assumption to me. -Pete (talk) 06:49, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there was no activity in expanding the articles for two months, so what's to say there would be activity in expanding them for the next two months? Four months? Any length of time pbp 15:17, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

PBP, your term was "perma"-stub, which implies that the articles will never amount to anything more than a stub. You did not rest your nomination on the idea that the articles would be stubs for two months, or ten years -- but permanently. That claim reflects a view of Another Believer's edit history that is not accurate. There are also many other editors who may improve the stubs. The "permastub" claim is highly dubious, and in my view insulting, considering the 40+ good articles promoted by the author in question. -Pete (talk) 19:21, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The same argument could be made for any stub on Wikipedia, but that does not mean we should delete or merge those stubs as well. --Another Believer _(Talk) 16:03, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Which is why arguments concerning article size are generally considered to be avoided at AfD. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:54, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Oregon-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:21, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Museums and libraries-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:21, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Albina & Belmont, which are now long enough. Allow some time for others to develop, them merge the remaining one-liners. Johnbod (talk) 17:23, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I allowed two months... pbp 17:44, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Stubs are allowed to exist on Wikipedia. Their presence allows contributors the opportunity to expand articles. Did I expand all of the stubs within the past two months? No. Could I expand all of them within the course of this AfD discussion? Not likely, especially given the time spent participating in discussions like this one. Could, and should, these articles be expanded? Yes. We all have limited time and resources--can we spend them improving the encyclopedia by adding information about notable subjects? This invitation might be seen as sarcastic, which is not my intent, and perhaps I will have no takers, but I invite contributors to expand these stubs if they are willing and able. I will continue working on them as well. --Another Believer _(Talk) 18:07, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, each branch has a History page on the MCL website which provides enough detail to get started:

• Capitol Hill: http://multcolib.org/agcy/cap-history.html
• Fairview-Columbia: http://multcolib.org/agcy/frv-history.html
• Gregory Heights: http://multcolib.org/agcy/grh-history.html
• Rockwood: http://multcolib.org/agcy/roc-history.html
• St. Johns: http://multcolib.org/agcy/stj-history.html
• Troutdate: http://multcolib.org/agcy/tdl-history.html

... etc. These are primary sources, but they provide a great starting point and certainly illustrate the need for individual branch articles. --Another Believer _(Talk) 21:06, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Other good sources include the Portland Business Journal and the Daily Journal of Commerce. Most archived items at both are free via their websites. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:54, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect those with no additional content to Multnomah County Library, and Keep the others. Doesn't this solve the issue for everybody? This leaves the article titles intact, if and when they're sufficiently expanded. I'm astonished at the mountain of bad-faith bullying on this page over this molehill of a problem. --Lockley (talk) 21:45, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• For starters, Keep and improve:

• Albina Library
• Belmont Library

 – Per WP:HEY and WP:GNG. Both of these articles have been significantly expanded compared to their states at the time of nomination for deletion, and both appear to pass Wikipedia's General notability guideline per the sources in them.

• Northwest Library
• Hollywood Library

 – These both appear to pass WP:GNG per the sources in the respective articles.

• Kenton Library

 – Meets WP:GNG per [3], [4], [5].

• (Addendum to my !vote)
• Hillsdale Library
• Gresham Library
• Holgate Library

 – The above pass GNG per the sources now present in the articles. Northamerica1000^(talk) 03:13, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

—Northamerica1000^(talk) 23:18, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since the above comment was added, I have worked on four others, and User:Finetooth has done an especially nice job on a fourth:

• Gresham Library
• Midland Library
• Sellwood-Moreland Library
• Holgate Library
• Hillsdale Library

It may be desirable to add more to a couple of them (especially Holgate) but the sources certainly exist. Must we predicate a decision here on doing the actual expansion to all the articles, or has the point that these branches tend to have sufficient sourcing been made? -Pete (talk) 01:58, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, thank you so much for the additional support, Pete and FT. I could not have expanded all of these articles this quickly on my own. --Another Believer _(Talk) 02:00, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This looks like an interesting project. I'm pretty sure there will be Oregonian articles on all of these branches that can be accessed online by anyone with a Multnomah County Library card. (I'm a card-carrying member.) Oregonian archives are available from 1861 onwards. I can take photos as needed as I'm sure AB and others can too. I think we can expand all of these stubs to at least start class by the end of November. If it stops raining now and again, we can probably illustrate them all by then as well. Finetooth (talk) 02:18, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: per WP:NRVE, topic notability on Wikipedia is not contingent upon whether or not sources are actually present in articles. The significant coverage in reliable sources simply needs to be existent. See also WP:IMPERFECT. Northamerica1000^(talk) 03:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep At least one article meets the GNG. I am not a fan of multi-nominations, and while I accept some laxity in nominating a *single* article for deletion, I really expect much better WP:BEFORE if you want to nominate sixteen at a time. I have been here for over ten years, and spent years improving some articles. Waiting a mere two months for an editor who a) has proven he can improve the articles to good status and b) has volunteered to improve these as well, does not impress upon me the immediate need to delete them.  The Steve  08:36, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep without merge on the basis that the articles can be improved. Each library represents a huge tax investment and there must be existing documentation describing each one. I agree that some articles in the set are complete and that sources are not identified to complete them. Also, as a practical matter, this navigational box

is much less useful with only some libraries represented in it. Some of the libraries in this box are definitely notable and it would seem strange to include some but not all libraries in a box like this. This navigational box needs to exist, and although I do not like say that notability should be WP:INHERITED by individual members in a notable group, in this case since the stubs are legitimate and since several individuals in the group definitely should not be merged, I think all individuals should have distinct articles. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:33, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You've made too many leaps of faith here. Why does the navigational box need to exist? And using WP:INHERITED is frowned upon pbp 17:09, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: A great deal of the information and images that have been added to this articles have been ripped from the MCL website and other non-reliable or non-independent sources pbp 18:08, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

With more than 15 articles nominated at once, we are working to expand many articles within a short period of time. It makes sense to start with the most obvious source. Clearly you have no interest in collecting references or working to expand articles you have nominated for deletion, which (may or may not be required but) is unfortunate. Are there really no articles here you believe should be removed from the nomination? Some clearly pass the threshold for standalone articles. Also, which images were taken from the MCL website? I only see ones taken by local Wikipedians, including several within the past couple days. Much thanks to those contributors who have assisted with the expansion, categorization and improvement of these stubs. --Another Believer _(Talk) 18:33, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As far as the text goes, "abstracted" is more fair than "ripped". While the MCL is not independent of itself, its claims are generally verifiable via newspaper articles. The stubs are rapidly becoming start-class articles with lead illustrations by Wikipedia photographers. This seems to be a good thing rather than a bad thing. Finetooth (talk) 19:11, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Favor keeping all as separate articles: As of November 8, most have at least three paragraphs of text carefully abstracted from multiple sources. All but three of these articles have images taken by Wikipedia photographers and uploaded to the Commons with appropriate licenses. Good faith efforts to improve the articles are continuing; several editors are contributing to the improvements. Finetooth (talk) 23:07, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Finetooth; Rockwood Library is now of at least fair quality.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 23:31, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Public funds are used to build these libraries and they serve as a center of the community - yea, reliable sources are going to write about them in detail. The assumption that none of these library topics would meet WP:GNG is not reasonable. The deletion proposal to delete these articles and have their information listed in one article seems to be based on the state of the articles themselves, not whether each topic meets WP:GNG or fails WP:NOT. The state of any article can be improved by improving the article, not deleting it. If this AfD is closed as no consensus, feel free to individually list any of the libraries at AfD. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 15:12, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was Withdrawn. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:06, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rainer Crone[edit]

Rainer Crone (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable minor academic, only one real claim to notability (an early work about Warhol, in fact this was the original topic of the entry). Refs do not establish notability, one of the main refs is a letter to the editor written by Crone. Hairhorn (talk) 18:58, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn in light of new info. Cheers. Hairhorn (talk) 14:44, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete The citation weight is weak with this one. Definitely seems to fail WP:PROF. §FreeRangeFrog 21:31, 1 November 2012 (UTC) Keep per DGG, as usual superb research efforts. §FreeRangeFrog 20:40, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• The article seems a bit amiss. The subject has also edited a work on Rodin Rodin: Eros and creativity, which brings together leading scholars. He may not be a Warhol one-trick pony, after all. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:36, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep A University professor at Munich who is a "minor" academic isn't very likely. And in fact the very inadequate article does not come near showing the actual notability. A check of WorldCat [6] shows that he is a major figure in art history having written many dozen books, most from major university publishers and major specialized art publishers, many in hundreds of libraries. He write in German and English, but the books have been published also into French, Italian, Dutch, Spanish, Catalan, Swedish, French , and Japanese. He is indeed an expert on Warhol among other things, & the article was apparently written inadequately just to provide a basis for including his bio of that artist. I'm adding them to the article, and will add the reviews also, but it will take me all day. When I gave the nominator the link to the publication record, & asked if he wanted to withdraw the nomination, & I'd add the books he responded "Huh? Afd is usually thought of as an incentive to improvement." It may indeed do that as a last resort, but the purpose of improving articles is served better by WP:BEFORE. So here I go. I'll copy just the book titles of the academic works --the reviews and the exhibition catalogs and the translations are in the article:

Andy Warhol. in 438 libraries according to WorldCat

Louise Bourgeois: The Secret of the Cells. . In 373 libraries according to WorldCat

Kazimir Malevich: The Climax of Disclosure. University of Chicago Press, 1991. in 498 libraries according to WorldCat

Paul Klee: Legends of the Sign. New York: Columbia University Press, 1991. in 498 libraries according to WorldCat

Rodin: Eros and creativity. Munich: Prestel, 2006. DGG ( talk ) 19:24, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per DGG; I'm already satisfied that he does indeed meet WP:PROF, even if DGG is not yet done adding notable published works. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:01, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Along with all of the above, as Universitätsprofessor in Munich he likely passes WP:PROF#C5. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:24, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was delete.  Sandstein  08:22, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Windows SMS Sender[edit]

Windows SMS Sender (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable software. article created by software author, fails google test, borderline spam article akaDruid (talk) 17:57, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I was going to suggest a redirect to the company's article when I noticed it's up for deletion as well for lack of notability. Cursory gsearch shows this isn't even remotely notable. §FreeRangeFrog 21:33, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete Looked for 3rd party refs, but nothing substantial found, only some product listing sites. Does not attain notability. AllyD (talk) 08:00, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Snow Delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:23, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Chelsea 2–3 Manchester United 2012[edit]

Chelsea 2–3 Manchester United 2012 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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No evidence that the details of this particular regular-season match are notable enough for a standalone article. The alleged "controversial decisions" and "racism allegation" might be worth mentioning at the Premier League season's article, and if anything significant comes of the probe into the latter then perhaps that might be encyclopedic, but nothing shows that there is anything more than routine coverage about the details of the match itself. Kinu ^t/_c 17:21, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - I'm not aware of any reason why a league match should be given an article, unless there was a disaster in the game. The article name itself is also a bit odd. Lukeno94 (talk) 18:51, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The only thing about this game that will get any longer term coverage is the Mark Clattenburg racism controversy and that is far better covered in his article than a specific article about an otherwise unremarkable match. Keresaspa (talk) 19:37, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete "It will or might also significantly effect..." - but it hasn't yet. WP:CRYSTAL. Any match in October can affect the final positions. Up to reaching the position where certain teams cannot be caught (or cannot catch up, or lift off the bottom), any match affects the final table. The allegation against the referee is dealt with in his own article. Apart from the business of the referee, it's just a match. Some you win, some you lose. Not even a spectacular (0-14 for example) result. Peridon (talk) 19:42, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete It's an early season match with little known impact on the standings. The after-match items are just a distraction with nothing to do with what happened 90-94 minutes before. Nate • (chatter) 23:42, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep No clear reason for deletion. Proposers for deletion to make a case why this is not notable because this is a CLEARLY notable event which occured between a top two clubs of recent years in EPL and currently the 1st and 2nd ranked in this season. This match included fully controversial 2 red cards and an offside goal. It will significantly effect the table and the winners of the premier league. It also includes a direct racism allegation against a referee. So clearly it is a notable event, has history in it, will be history itself both for Football and Race. It IS a spectacular match with 2 red cards and racism issue. Race cannot be ignored in any case as per any Wikipedia rules. Also to remind you all, MU had not won a single match at Stamford Bridge for the past 10 years.49.244.115.217 (talk) 03:07, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  "CLEARLY notable", eh? I see no evidence that this match will affect the standings other than the obvious "+1 win for team X, +1 loss for team Y" that is the effect of every match. You might think it was "spectacular" but you are not a reliable source, and stating that it "will be history" is pure speculation. --Kinu ^t/_c 05:51, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly not notable eh? I see clear evidence that it will affect the standing. Dont try to break WP:NPOV. Keep your points of view to yourself. Wiki doesnt work that way. There are 100s of sources that are saying the match was spectacular.49.244.115.217 (talk) 03:05, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So? Can you indicate which WP guideline says that a match gets a stand-alone article on the basis of being "spectacular"....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:20, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:NOTNEWS, WP:ROUTINE. Run of the mill football match. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 07:56, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - no more notable than any other Premier League match, being "spectacular" (in addition to being purely a matter of opinion) is not a reason for a match having an article. Sendings off and "offside goals" happen all the time. Racism allegation can (and probably already is, I haven't checked) be covered at Mark Clattenburg, where it belongs -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Not exactly a remarkable game, even speaking as a United fan. The only thing slightly notable in the article is the possible problems regarding Mark Clattenburg, but that would be best covered in his own article, or if it become a bigger thing in the future it may deserve a sentance or two in Racism in association football. Del_♉sion23 (talk) 20:51, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your vote can not be considered henceforth because your break WP:NPOV. You speak as a united fan.49.244.115.217 (talk) 03:05, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rhubarb. NPOV is something totally different - you mean WP:COI. COI hardly applies when someone is calling for the deletion of an article about an away match their team WON.... Peridon (talk) 10:52, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - no evidence of notability. GiantSnowman 12:15, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, let it Snow - it might justify a line or two in 2012–13 Premier League if it turns out to have a particular impact on the outcome of the season (though such an "impact" would need to be verified by reliable sources). As a standalone article it is quite obviously not notable. Stalwart111 (talk) 01:17, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Fails WP:NOT all I can find is routine reporting of a sports result. Mtking ^(edits) 10:56, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete No point in having this article. – Michael (talk) 18:55, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete as unambiguously promotional. SmartSE (talk) 19:47, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Suelyn Farel[edit]

Suelyn Farel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Subject of the articles fails WP:BIO, WP:GNG, and WP:RS. There's no indication that subject is notable. Holyfield1998 (talk) 17:19, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. The nomination was withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Hadger 22:39, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Deep Dark Canyon[edit]

Deep Dark Canyon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Unreferenced article about a film. No evidence of awards. No evidence of professional reviews in google. Stuartyeates (talk) 17:16, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. I had little difficulty finding reviews: Film Threat, Village Voice. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 18:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep - Meets WP:GNG per [7] and [8]. Northamerica1000^(talk) 23:47, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, specially in noting that the article is no longer "unreferenced" and that sources were easy to find with various efforts in looking. As the nominator's concerns are proving addressable, I would ask that he might consider a withdrawal. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 02:24, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Withdraw AfD as per the great work from User:MichaelQSchmidt and User:Tokyogirl79. Stuartyeates (talk) 19:06, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete.  Sandstein  08:33, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GemSelect[edit]

GemSelect (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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No evidence of notability per WP:GNG. Claims to be "one of the largest suppliers of precious gems" but I cannot find a reliable source to substantiate this. Kinu ^t/_c 17:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Not that it has a lot of weight necessarily, but most of the ghits I see are complaints about rip-offs. In any case it seems to fail WP:COMPANY and is obviously self-promotional. §FreeRangeFrog 21:39, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • User generated review sites should not have any weight whatsoever and are not relevant to a subjects notability. Article has been edited to include source for claim to be largest as noted by editor Kinu. Alexa ref added in; Wikipedia article uses Alexa as a verifiable reference, not for notability but to emphasis popularity. Structuring has been made to focus on the company's non-commercial organization contributions of educational content to establish non-promo point of view. Non-commercial focus may need reconsidering per Wiki's guidlines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dyml (talk • contribs) 04:41, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Per the search engine test, Alexa rankings do not reflect encyclopedic notability and existence of reliable source material if so. I see a bunch of links to random web pages that merely say "visit GemSelect", press releases (i.e., this addition is completely useless), etc. Are there any actual reliable sources that discuss this company in depth? --Kinu ^t/_c 05:28, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Agreed point re press release source-- has been removed. “Alexa rankings do not ‘reflect’...notability”, but it is still “it is helpful to estimate the relative popularity of a website” and “Alexa itself says that ranks worse than 100,000 are not reliable” per Search Engine Test. My take from this is that although Alexa doesn’t determine notability, it can still aid with reinforce it (assuming we can verify notability with other references). Would this be correct? There are many published discussions on specialized websites like Pricescope; would these gem/jewelry related websites be be considered reliable? In the meantime, I'm still looking into other publications for sources.
      • Re pricecope (and gemologyonline) --Independent sources; it is 3rd party and the authors are considered experts in their fields. Do they fall into this loop?Dyml
        • I see you've added this and this. Have you actually read WP:RS? --Kinu ^t/_c 16:36, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • In WP:RS "and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professional journalists or are professionals in the field on which they write and the blog is subject to the news outlet's full editorial control". The members of Pricescope are considered experts in their fields. Does this qualify it to be a reliable 3rd party source?Dyml (talk) 01:12, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Dyml (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 05:59, 2 November 2012

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• Delete - There is no coverage in independent reliable sources. I've reviewed the sourcing in the article and none of the sources are usable for establishing notability. -- Whpq (talk) 17:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - I will of course respect any decision made on this matter Keep or Delete, but because of the site's status within the mineral,geology, gemstone and jewelry communities I thought there should be an article covering this website. Of the 600+ education articles in this website's database, hundreds of websites and articles continuously reference this website for their facts (including Wikipedia). It's value in the geological and mineralogy community is held high. For such a small niche and specific community, to be in the top 100,000 of all websites, that seems to be noteworthy on its own. no vote Dyml (talk) 07:09, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Er... no, the gem sales site has no "status" within mineral or geology communities and the above user has been adding "reference" links to the site to several mineral articles. Should be blacklisted. Vsmith (talk) 12:26, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete is fine if agreed upon, which seems to be the case, but blacklist seems harsh. I did add references to additional articles, but only to articles I improved upon. I thought this was acceptable and done with good intentions by contributing to the wiki community. One of the articles had 0 references and asked for contribution. If a reference was added, it was only done because an improvement was made. Because Vsmith doesn't like the changes, said references have been removed and no improvements have been made to the articles.Dyml (talk) 02:30, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems Vsmith took the liberty of removing a reference already, but was happy to leave the factual article contribution I updated on Aventurine-- "The name Aventurine is used for both aventurine feldspar and aventurine quartz. The aventurine feldspar is now commonly traded under the name sunstone, rendering the name aventurine to be used mainly as reference to the quartz variety." Factual addition has been removed from the article - along with the reference that the User removed. (Same apples for Kyanite factual contribution) Dyml (talk) 02:43, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per all the above. Vsmith (talk) 12:26, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete as unambiguously promotional. SmartSE (talk) 19:53, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Abby Campbell (Author)[edit]

Abby Campbell (Author) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable author of a single book that has not yet been released (according the author's own spec sheet). Article likely violates WP:BLP by relying extensively on primary sources and by stating facts not verified by said sources. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 16:41, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. I'll see what I can do. Wow... that's a lot of puffery going on there to clean out. It almost, almost could be speedied for being so blatantly promotional.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 18:05, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. This is pretty much a prime example of what is most likely someone coming onto Wikipedia to create a promotional page for themselves. Given the lack of any hits coming up to give her notability and that the page here resorts to using Amazon and genealogy websites to source parts of the article (and that there's far more here than is actually stated in the sources), this is pretty obviously something that should be speedied for being blatant promotion. If by some strange chance it doesn't get speedied, my vote is for delete. There's no notability here and I highly recommend that the original editor read through WP:COI before attempting to re-add this page to Wikipedia.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 18:32, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• There were bits that taken directly from the AuthorBiography.pdf that I've removed as copyvio. It seems likely other bits of the article are also copyvio, too. Unless I've misunderstood something, large parts of the bio are cited to a talk at a church, which is odd for an WP:AUTO. Delete as per Tokyogirl79's reasoning. Morwen - Talk 18:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:25, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adrien leduc[edit]

Adrien leduc (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Self-published author with no indications of notability. Profile in the alumni magazine of his alma mater doesn't really count as "independent coverage". Reviews at amazon.com or smashwords don't count as "reliable". WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 16:25, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. I find no reliable sources discussing this author or his work. Indeed, the two-sentence plot summary in the alumni magazine is not useful at all. --Kinu ^t/_c 17:50, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Not yet notable per WP:AUTHOR, no significant coverage online from WP:Reliable sources. Darth Sitges (talk) 11:20, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. Quoting Amazon customer reviews is a sign of no other reliable sources. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 19:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was withdrawn by nominator. Which is me. The article's now in a fit state to keep. — Hex (❝?!❞) 09:49, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bicycle law in California[edit]

Bicycle law in California (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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My concerns over this article are illustrated by a couple of quotes from its current talk page and its first AfD nomination.

[T]his article... has a lot of serious problems with WP:PRIMARY and/or WP:SYN and/or WP:OR. While there are a few secondary sources that seem legitimate at first glance, the vast majority of this article simply consists of editors' interpretations of citations of the California Vehicle Code, which is a primary source, not a secondary source. ... Wikipedia is not the place for this sort of synthesis of primary sources, even if the analysis seems obvious.
— User:Agnosticaphid 06:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

[This article's deletion is justified] primarily due to WP:NOLEGAL. The tone of the current article reads like California bicyclist-friendly legal advice (...explaining why and how these sections are relevant to bicyclists in California...) verging on WP:NOTADVOCATE, not a encyclopedic neutral treatment of the subject written for a universal audience. Contrast this article with the treatment (though by no means perfect) given at Bicycle law. See WP:NOTAFORUM on plea point #5. I would tend to think Wikibooks would be a better place for this.
— User:Zedla 03:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

The article has not noticeably improved since the above was written three years ago, and is very unlikely to ever do so. — Hex (❝?!❞) 15:08, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Note: The article is almost entirely the work of a single author, Born2cycle. — Hex (❝?!❞) 16:24, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I wholeheartedly agree. Not only were my admittedly non-exhaustive comments on the talk page not addressed, but additional primary sources/original research have been added since I added the comment and related tags. Accordingly, I doubt that the article will substantially improve, and I also think it's unlikely that the vast majority of the article will be removed. For those reasons, it seems appropriate to delete the article. AgnosticAphid talk 18:39, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would also note that admin who closed the prior nomination forty months ago wrote, "Recommend something be done with this article swiftly. I can't enforce the requested time restriction on a renomination, but the article in its present form/location appears to have legitimate concerns that are unlikely to fade away. Fritzpoll (talk) 17:30, 5 June 2009 (UTC)" AgnosticAphid talk 18:43, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. First, most if not all interpretations of the vehicle code in this article are supported by secondary sources, including: Wachtel, Forester, Bluejay, Mionske, Pein, and Bernardi. I also suggest this is a special case, and perhaps IAR needs to be invoked. Let's at least consider whether Wikipedia is improved by the deletion of this article. To that end, according to traffic statistics, this article routinely gets 1500-2000 hits per month. Considering it's such a narrow topic (which also explains the scarcity of secondary sources on the topic), that's pretty impressive, and demonstrates the utility and value of the information in the article to our readers. It should also be noted that the published vehicle code is not a typical problematic primary source. It is written specifically for the public at large and so that anyone can understand it. I fail to see how Wikipedia is improved by removing this article, based solely on rules designed to remove material that creates problems which are not created by this article. --Born2cycle (talk) 19:52, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Wikipedia is not furthered by the inclusion of articles of dubious accuracy. And let's not beat around the bush, that's exactly what this article is and that's why we have rules prohibiting original research and reliance on primary sources. I don't think that the California Vehicle Code was "written specifically for the public at large so that anyone can understand it." You can read about the history of the California Codes in the corresponding article, which makes no mention of public usability. In fact, that article states that relying solely on them might not be advisable: "The Codes form an important part of California law. However, they must be read in combination with the federal and state constitutions, federal and state case law, and the California Code of Regulations, in order to understand how they are actually interpreted and enforced in court." The California Codes are not a special sort of primary source that warrant ignoring all rules about the limits on the scope of editors' original analysis. For example, as I mentioned in my comment on the talk page of the article, to which you declined to respond or address here, "So too, even the statement that bicyclists, like everyone else, have to move over if there's 5 people behind them needs a source. What if, for instance, there was some other provision of the CVC that specifically provided that bicyclists were exempt from CVC 21656 [the law that says to move over]? Primary sourcing wouldn't reveal that; hopefully a reliable secondary source would." I'd also like to point out that many of the statements the article really are legal advice, which is to be charitable a bit in tension with WP:IANAL. (In other words, the usefulness of legal pointers about California biking law seems questionable given that Wikipedia expressly tells all of its readers that it doesn't give legal advice or offer legal opinions and won't represent that any legal articles are accurate.)

I also do not think that the fact that up to 70 people visit this page daily really means that it's an appropriate wikipedia article. There are lots of other affiliated projects that I'm sure would love to have a detailed exposition of biking law in California, even if it's not based exclusively on reliable secondary sources like Wikipedia articles are supposed to be. See also WP:USEFUL (just because it's useful doesn't mean it belongs on Wikipedia), WP:NOHARM ("Just because having an article does not directly hurt anyone does not mean it should be kept"), and WP:POPULARPAGE ("just because an article is popular does not mean it is within the project scope.").

Finally, while it is true that a few of the subsections of the article have secondary sources (the reliability of which I have not attempted to determine and of which other editors seem dubious), overall the vast majority of the article does not. And the article is not moving in the correct direction. The article hasn't been substantively revised in quite some time, and the most recent references that were added were in connection with synthesis of primary sources. Nor does it appear that there is a commitment from the usual editors of this article to move it in the right direction or even to acknowledge that the problems discussed here are valid.

Because this article has major reference problems, because there is a minimal amount of acceptable material, and because there seems to be no indication that either of these things is about to change despite the passing of a substantial amount of time since they were first mentioned, I think the article should be removed. AgnosticAphid talk 20:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Addressing the only specific example provided... you speculate that it's possible some other provision of the vehicle code might exempt bicyclists from having to comply with 21656. Do you really think it works like that? That they put in a section a something that says drivers must do X, and then in a section b say that section a does not apply to certain types of drivers? Without at least referencing that section b in section a? If so, that would require everyone to have knowledge of all sections of the vehicle code to understand any section of it, which would make it practically useless.

And yes, usefulness alone, or popularity alone, or no harm alone, are not reasons in and of themselves good enough reasons to keep an article. But taken all together I suggest they make a compelling case for keeping. --Born2cycle (talk) 22:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There are lots of specific examples of missing sources in my comment on the talk page. But anyway, you absolutely do need to have an exhaustive knowledge of the vehicle code to be able to definitively interpret any section of it. There are lots of exemptions in the Vehicle Code (and all the other California Codes) that are not mentioned in the sections to which the exemptions apply. If you're really interested, you could reference the first example I could immediately find, which is that [9] contains an exemption to [10] that is not mentioned in the latter statute. I'm sure there are other examples, but this one should suffice to rebut your categorical statement. And even leaving that particular possibility to one side, the sections are not always interpreted by courts to mean what their text suggests, which is why the California Codes article notes that you also need to be familiar with case law and applicable regulations to confidently interpret them. AgnosticAphid talk 22:33, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, that's true in many cases, including 460/461. Good point. But is there anything in the article which you can identify as being inaccurate because it is contradicted by actual/known exemptions rather than ones you speculate about? When every relevant source agrees on an interpretation, and no relevant source disagrees, isn't it acceptable to include that interpretation?

There is no source that questions that 21656 interpretation, and no mention of any exemption for bicyclists mentioned in any source anywhere, so far as I know. Do you know otherwise? --Born2cycle (talk) 22:41, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would submit that you're missing the point. While I am a California attorney (which isn't relevant), I'm not an expert on biking law or the vehicle code. So no, I don't know otherwise. I doubt anybody else does, either. But the whole point of using secondary sources is that if we pick reliable ones we won't have to sit around speculating about whether our interpretations are correct! The fact that neither you nor I nor the other ten editors who read this know for a fact that you're wrong doesn't mean it's okay to include an unreferenced statement until someone better informed comes along. In any event, there are lots of sections of this article that simply don't have any secondary sources at all, including the discussion of CVC 21656. So it's not really fair to suggest that the absence of contrary sources supports your position. AgnosticAphid talk 22:51, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also like to note the words of Jimbo, with which I think you may be familiar: I really want to encourage a much stronger culture which says: it is better to have no information, than to have information like this, with no sources. Any editor who removes such things, and refuses to allow it back without an actual and appropriate source, should be the recipient of a barnstar. AgnosticAphid talk 23:46, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, then, I suggest you find someone who is an expert on bicycle law and ask them if there is anything inaccurate in this article. Let us know. Until then, I get your point, I disagree, and I see nothing productive that can come from further discussion, since by your own admission you're not an expert on the topic of this article.

Jimbo's comment, by the way, sounds like something that was said in the context of BLPs.

Also, I can't help but wonder if as a California lawyer your exuberance in getting this article deleted is not at least partially motivated by wanting to reduce the amount of helpful information there is available here to potential lawyer clients. I mean, the more we can learn without a lawyer, the better we can defend ourselves. I know people who have relied on information and references in this article to win in court, without a lawyer. Not questioning your good faith. Just wondering if there might be a subconscious factor at play here. --Born2cycle (talk) 00:09, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I fail to see how claiming that I am "exuberan[t]" about deleting this article -- which isn't accurate; I wasn't the nominator, and my talk page comment was months ago -- because I want to "reduce the amount of helpful information there is available here to potential lawyer clients" is anything other than a personal attack. You're suggesting that I have a personal interest in deleting this article because I want Californians to be uninformed about bicycle law so that they will come to me rather than wikipedia. That's really not appropriate (or accurate, given my wholly unrelated field of practice, but whatever). The statement from Jimbo I referenced is not about BLP, it's about verifiability "more generally." In fact, you referenced the BLP part of it in your RFC about "lane splitting," a decidedly non-BLP issue, and it seems like everyone agreed with you.

The important point here is that there are many, many, sourcing problems with this article, and nobody seems committed to recognizing, much less fixing, them. AgnosticAphid talk 00:27, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize. I recognize the sourcing is not ideal, but I've seen many articles with sources that were much worse, so I didn't think it was a priority to fix them. Not to mention that it's difficult.

By the way, CVC 21202, which is specific to bicyclists, explicitly states, in (a) (3), that bicyclists are subject to the provisions of 21656. How the encyclopedia, much less the world, is better off by deleting this information still escapes me. --Born2cycle (talk) 00:52, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, essentially a how-to and OR legal guide; I see several blogs and other self-published materials in the secondary sources, hardly enough to back up some of the broad legal claims made in the text. The amount of traffic on the page is hardly surprising given the topic, but that means little. Hairhorn (talk) 20:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would you mind providing a few examples of the "broad legal claims made in the text" that you think are not sufficiently backed up? Thanks! --Born2cycle (talk) 20:37, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Racing and drafting bicycles is legal", for starters.... although I'm not sure a debate on particular examples is the way to save the page. Hairhorn (talk) 01:45, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That interpretation of the law is properly referenced to two sources [11] [12]. Did you read that? --Born2cycle (talk) 02:35, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There was only a single working reference when I made that comment; a book by an engineer that is given as the reference for the the claim "it is perfectly legal for bicyclists to draft and race on open public roads in California". What things are "perfectly legal" is a matter decided by courts. Hairhorn (talk) 02:55, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So until a matter is decided by the courts, we have no idea if it's legal or not? What utter nonsense. Much of the vehicle code has never been challenged in court, and yet we (including driver's manual writers) have to understand it and decide for ourselves what is "perfectly legal". Anyway, I fixed the other link. If you disagree with the sources, take it up with them, but that's no argument to remove sourced and verifiable material, much less an entire article.

Per WP:PRIMARY: "A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the source but without further, specialized knowledge." The indisputable fact is that the sections regulating racing and drafting refer specifically to motor vehicles, and bicycles are not motor vehicles. The cited sources put 2 and 2 together for us, but these "descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the source but without further, specialized knowledge." Are you questioning whether racing or drafting of bicyclists is legal in CA after reading these primary and secondary sources, or without reading them? --Born2cycle (talk) 03:12, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Again, Wiki isn't really the place for a legal guide, this is exactly the issue raised in the first AFD. Hairhorn (talk) 03:19, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a legal guide, nor a how-to manual; it's an encyclopedic article about a legitimate legal topic about parts of a primary legal source based on secondary sources books and articles as well as the primary source. Similar articles about less obscure topics include: Preamble to the United States Constitution, Article One of the United States Constitution, etc., etc. Please note especially that second one, which quotes specific sections of Article One, and then interprets them, with references, just like this article does. --Born2cycle (talk) 03:38, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Inspired by the style/format used in Article One of the United States Constitution, I changed all calls to the Quotation template in this article to be calls to the quote template instead. [13] I realize it's only a style issue, but maybe those Quotation colored boxes were too much, and causing people to misinterpret the type of article this was. What do you you think of it now? Bicycle law in California. --Born2cycle (talk) 03:47, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep This nomination should be a wake-up call to Wikipedians that shows the potential for abuse of the PRIMARY rule, but the Guantanamo prisoner articles were not. I'll just go on crying "Wolf!" while others prefer to think of the wolf as just misunderstood. Or useful. Anarchangel (talk) 01:26, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The what were what? Are you here to debate the questionable utility of this article, or to make a point about something completely irrelevant? — Hex (❝?!❞) 11:14, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I understand. I don't see why prohibiting people from making off-the-cuff legal analysis with no sources (primary sources may as well not be a source for verifiability purposes) is a bad decision. AgnosticAphid talk 16:01, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree this AfD is misuse of PRIMARY. WP:PRIMARY states: "A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the source but without further, specialized knowledge." If you think there are any uses of primary sources, including "legal analysis", in this article that do not meet this requirement, please point them out so that they may be fixed. --Born2cycle (talk) 16:49, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a non-exhaustive list of claims made in the first half of the article that are either unsourced or rely on primary sources. Compiling this was a bit exhausting and seems somewhat futile so I couldn't get to the second half, but maybe someone else can. The problems are pretty clear, at any rate, so it shouldn't be difficult for enterprising editors to figure out.

• "Bicycle-relevant divisions" has no source for the statement that the referenced parts of the vehicle code are the only ones dealing with bicycling.
• The discussion of CVC 21650 is based on primary sources. The "because of CVC 21200 ..." claim is problematic. You're synthesizing these two primary sources to reach a conclusion that isn't stated in either of them. See WP:SYN.
• The CVC 21703/23109 discussion is likewise a synthesis. You're listing all the various implications of Wachtel's claim about "motor vehicle" provisions not applying to cyclists, but I don't see where Wachtel anywhere makes any of these statements himself.
• The CVC 530 discussion is based exclusively on primary sources. It also synthesizes a number of primary sources to make claims not stated in any of them. Who says "shoulders are not 'improved, designed or ordinarily used for vehicular travel'; vehicular travel on shoulders is prohibited"? This claim has no source. There are freeway shoulders by my house in Oakland where cars are permitted to drive during rush hour. There is a portion of Interstate 580 where the bike path is in fact on the shoulder of the freeway. Who says 21202's "roadway" excludes the "shoulder"? The point is not to discuss the merits of your analysis, the point is that relying on primary sources is problematic because what may seem to be obvious conclusions are usually not quite so obvious as they appear, which is why we verify our claims by relying on reliable secondary sources. This is especially the case when using statues as secondary sources, because like I pointed out earlier they have exceptions and wonky definitions that you wouldn't always know about from relying on the primary source of the lone statute itself.
• For CVC 21202(a), there are many problems. While there is the one secondary source, it really doesn't support many of the statements made in the article. First of all, who says that it is "rare" for an exception not to apply? Second, who says that the AASHTO's 14-foot recommendation is equivalent to the definition of "substandard width lane" set forth in section 21202, subdivision (a)(3)? You conflate the two with no supporting source. Why are Texas' rules about lane width at all relevant? Nor is there any source for your discussion of right turns and driveways in residential areas. It's just more of you personally think this law would require in residential areas. Why are Born2Cycle's opinions about the requirements of the California Vehicle Code the appropriate basis for an encyclopedia article? There's simply no verifiable evidence that the listed exceptions are interpreted in the manner in which you assert.

In sum, I'd say that this article is drowning in sourcing problems. Your off-the-cuff analysis of a primary source does not belong in Wikipedia. Yet the only response I've seen here is a claim that for some reason the California Vehicle Code is some kind of "super source" that's so easy to interpret and so obvious in its implications that it somehow warrants ignoring all of our rules about sourcing. But I think that if there is one place that we should definitely enforce our rules about sourcing, it's when we're dealing with legal texts. After all, we have hundreds -- thousands -- of judges who spend a significant part of their jobs just sitting around thinking about how to interpret statutes just like these. AgnosticAphid talk 19:34, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to pre-emptively apologize for repeatedly saying "you" rather than "the article." AgnosticAphid talk 20:28, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I've addressed most of these concerns[14]. I think part of the problem is that citations in the article have been removed instead of being marked as dead when the original location referenced storing the Wachtel paper from the 1995 UCD Environment Law Society symposium disappeared. Anyway, I'm restoring and fixing it as much as I can. Of your list, the only area I have left is 21202. But I assure you these are not my personal opinions. They are supported by multiple secondary sources. It's a matter of finding them. --Born2cycle (talk) 22:18, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. You didn't really fix all of the things I mentioned. The article still has the first two problems I noted. I'll admit, the third thing looks alright at first glance, I think. The CVC 530 thing is still a synthesis. I reviewed Mr Wechtel's article and I don't think he links his statement about riding on the shoulder to CVC 530 the way the article does. It's more of a synthesis of his statements and the text of the code. You admitted 21202 is a problem. More importantly, what about the rest of the article? It's much worse than the things I explicitly mentioned above.

It's good that we're sort of making incremental progress with certain sentences here and there, but really the entire topic is inherently problematic. It really just is a legal guide and how-to manual. The article is not some kind of exposition of the history of biking laws in California, or the social consequences of biking laws, or really anything else other than a discussion of the text of the actual biking laws themselves. You admitted as much above, when you argued to keep it because it's useful, popular, and not harmful (all "arguments to avoid in deletion discussions" as I pointed out) and revealingly stated, "I know people who have relied on information and references in this article to win in court, without a lawyer." Wikipedia is not a how-to guide or a legal or any other kind of guide.

Perhaps in some kind of exceptional instance, we could have an article that breaks all the rules -- a how-to guide based on primary sources. This is not that kind of exceptional instance. This is a complex topic that at best treads perilously close to constituting legal advice. It's full of primary sources about this questionable topic. It seemed like when this was first discussed forty some months ago that the article was supposedly moving in another direction ("swiftly") to stay. It really hasn't moved much of anywhere at all. After all this time, I just can't see the commitment to the wholesale revisions that would be necessary to keep this article. I would say that at best there have been gracious cosmetic revisions. AgnosticAphid talk 06:48, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Finally, I'd like to point out that nobody will even admit that the article is misusing primary sources. How is this AfD a misuse of WP:PRIMARY? This non-recognition seems like a poor starting point for a kept article. But maybe I'm really just off my rocker and don't understand what a primary source is. AgnosticAphid talk 06:54, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Of course the CVC is a primary source for what the CVC says. It's a misuse of PRIMARY to base an argument for deletion on the grounds that this article uses that primary source. Using it is not a problem, as long as we also have secondary sources which refer to it, like the Wachtel, Forester, and Mionske sources do. --Born2cycle (talk) 16:39, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, the article needs significant cleanup, but it's most certainly an educational and encyclopedic topic of value to readers and editors alike. — Cirt (talk) 05:57, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well folks, I've completely (and I mean completely) overhauled the article. The big problem was that it wasn't structured like an encyclopedia article at all. After fixing that, dumping all the glaring synthesis and great big chunks of redundant and/or duplicated text, it actually looks worth keeping. I no longer have any objection to it existing, providing that no more "X and Y, therefore Z"-type stuff is added to it. — Hex (❝?!❞) 18:35, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's really quite an impressive and laudable improvement. The article's claims are much more appropriate to the sources and the article is more encyclopedic. I'm not totally convinced of the appropriateness of the topic itself -- but I don't really even know what kind of objection that is exactly (notabililty? seems wrong somehow) and I can't say that the article turns me off the way it used to. Given your proviso, and in light of my general inexperience with deletion discussions, I can't say I'm still willing to support deletion. AgnosticAphid talk 21:05, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete.  Sandstein  08:29, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Artista Rosario[edit]

Artista Rosario (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Promotional piece for a non-notable performer, at least non-notable by our standards. No reliable sources are provided, and whatever Google News turns up are false hits (due to the grammar of the person's artist name). Drmies (talk) 15:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. I tagged this for speedy on 10/23 and it was deleted then. Re-creation by the same author on 10/26; it's better now. I usually do a WP:BEFORE prior to tagging and I didn't see anything significant during my search, but like nominator reports, a web search is hindered by the false hits created by the high frequency unrelated hits with the same name appear. I still don't see anything approaching WP:IRS here. BusterD (talk) 23:00, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete.  Sandstein  08:21, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Laravel[edit]

Laravel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I placed a prod tag on this article for total lack of independent sources. It was removed with reference to two books: 'Code Happy', which is described on it's Amazon page like so: 'This is a self published title written by one of the Laravel Core Team developers.' The second was 'Laravel Starter' by Shawn McCool, who is described as a member of the Laravel team on the publisher's web site. I've looked, and aside from a few blogs I cannot find any sources for this article that are unconnected with the development team. I think this article does not meet the general notability guideline and should be deleted. Update: It looks like a canvassing post about this AFD has already gone up on their webforum. MrOllie (talk) 14:50, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Sources do not demonstrate notability.--Hu12 (talk) 15:44, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Also raises WP:BLP issues.  Sandstein  08:42, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Scott Stevens (weatherman)[edit]

Scott Stevens (weatherman) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This article does not meet notability, verifiability, or reference guidelines. WP:N, WP:V, WP:RS Byates5637 (talk) 14:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Update: The entry has been reverted to an earlier revision that is of higher quality and contains a reference, but I still do not think that this meets the notability guidelines.Byates5637 (talk) 20:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, not notable. Current version of the entry is a mess, it presents crackpot theories as established "global phenomena". Possibly notable in pseudoscience circles, although it's hard to say. Hairhorn (talk) 20:20, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete as inadequately sourced. Xxanthippe (talk) 22:25, 2 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]

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The result was delete.  Sandstein  08:25, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ph7 engine[edit]

Ph7 engine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I placed a prod tag on this article with a request for independent sourcing, and it was removed with an addition to a project profile on Freecode.com, a site which appears to be an indiscriminate collection of user submitted open source projects. I've looked and cannot find any sources for this, so I believe this project fails the general notability guideline and the article should be deleted. MrOllie (talk) 14:44, 1 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]

The project is Open Source since October 2012, so it's a relatively new project and I'm one if the commiter to it. As I said, the source code is available free to download, simply analyze it and you will see that PH7 really is an Embeddable PHP Engine, you may also check the PH7 Licensing page (http://ph7.symisc.net/licensing.html) or the company website (http://symisc.net). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xtremejames183 (talk • contribs)

I have no doubt that it exists and really is an embeddable php engine, I just doubt that it meets Wikipedia's threshold for inclusion. - MrOllie (talk) 15:14, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you think this is self-advertising, you are wrong. I'm a simple commiter to the project, not a direct affiliate with it. If such behavior was wanted, I would have copy and paste all the features page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xtremejames183 (talk • contribs) 15:37, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - No coverage in reliable sources. In fact, I'm not even seeing coverage in unreliable sources. That isn't surprising for a project that only got started last month. -- Whpq (talk) 17:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Snow Delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:25, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kinect Rush 3: A Nicktoons Adventure[edit]

Kinect Rush 3: A Nicktoons Adventure (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Also nominating Kinect Rush 2: A Cartoon Network Adventure (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (added by Uzma Gamal (talk) 14:46, 1 November 2012 (UTC))[reply]

I believe this is a fictitious game. Cannot find it reported on any reliable news sites or even on the developer's website. X201 (talk) 14:28, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete all - Seems to be a play on the words Kinect Rush: A Disney-Pixar Adventure. That is, they colloborate with Disney-Pixar as Kinect Rush 1, Cartoon Network as Kinect Rush 2, and Nicktoons as Kinect Rush 3: A Nicktoons Adventure. The Pixar collaboration was noted in a June 4, 2012 news article,[15] soit seems unlikely that Kinect Rush would jump to a competitor so quickly. There's no sources for Rush 2 or 3 and Kinect Rush is not referred to as Kinect Rush 1. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 14:44, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy delete both as per Uzma Gama1. Lukeno94 (talk) 18:53, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Clear as WP:CRYSTAL unless someone can magically make WP:VG/RS appear. I can't find anything on it. czar · · 19:58, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete This is WP:SNOW if I ever saw one. §FreeRangeFrog 21:45, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Making an assumption just based on what network the article creator loves more. For all we know, Kinect Rush 2 or 3 could throw us a curve and be A C-SPAN Adventure, A Netflix Adventure or A The Hub Adventure. No sources, and too far out to predict in the first place. Nate • (chatter) 23:47, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Speculation. No sources confirming that this is the title of the third game.--xanchester (t) 00:36, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In fact we don't even have sources for the claimed second game in the series making this even less likely.--174.93.171.10 (talk) 01:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Polyadenylation. Mark Arsten (talk) 12:53, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

TTATT[edit]

TTATT (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I don't think this article passes WP:NEO, and I couldn't find any sources about the phrase online. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 13:28, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Polyadenylation. AAUAAA redirects to polyadenylation and "The end of transcription is heralded when RNA polymerase II reaches a "termination sequence" (TTATT on the DNA template and AAUAAA on the primary transcript)."[16] TTATT also is a fixed points in the sky that the FAA has pilots use when they fly the approach to runway 16 in Portsmouth, N.H.[17] -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 14:28, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Polyadenylation. The current content cannot be adequately sourced for inclusion, and I think we can safely ignore the Portsmouth navigation fix as trivial (there are a lot of those, and they're well beyond the scope of this encyclopedia). Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 14:48, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:09, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mobility number[edit]

Mobility number (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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The term "nobility number" as used in this article does not appear to be notable. The phrase "mobility Reynolds number" appears in exactly one scientific publication (the one listed as a source). This publication appeared in June this year and has not (yet) received any citations.

The term "mobility number" appears in other places in the literature, where it can mean a number of things, which as far as I can tell are at best only loosely related to what is described in this article.TR 12:08, 25 October 2012 (UTC) TR 12:08, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wifione ^Message 11:44, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The editor who created this has been adding citations to papers written by this "Shiva P. Pudasaini", to lots of pre-existing articles, and failing to engage meaningfully when challenged. I don't profess to understand mechanics at this level, but it looks like it's a delete, unless someone else speaks up in its defence. Morwen - Talk 12:44, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. No currency in the field. This exists solely in the work of Shiva Pudasaini, first appearing in a 2012 Journal of Geophysical Research paper as a novel coinage. Essentially, he takes a slightly different approach to modeling granular flow in large mass wasting events, and this new constant appears. The Iverson and Denlinger (2001) reference given in the article doesn't talk about this topic at all; indeed, Pudasaini notes that in the paper. No one else seems to have adopted the term, and Pudasaini's paper is not widely cited, so this falls quite a bit short of having significant coverage in multiple, independent sources. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 14:33, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. The concept of mobility, the ability to flow in the presence of hindrances such as impurities and collisions, is a common one in physics, for instance, Electron mobility in semiconductors. But I agree, looking at the literature, this is the definition of a single author, Shiva P. Pudasaini. Furthermore, there are a number of different definitions of mobility in geophysics, and the definition of mobility number given in the article is certainly not the most common.Mark viking (talk) 21:45, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Miss A.  Sandstein  08:55, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Independent Women Part III[edit]

Independent Women Part III (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This article is unsourced and empty bar an infobox. I believe that it fails notability and doesn't merit an article on its own. Should possibly be merged into Miss A Gbawden (talk) 10:35, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Merge to the artists main article and possibly make a one sentence mention in Destiny's Child Independent Woman Part I.

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:10, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Space Empire II[edit]

Space Empire II (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails WP:N. Only references are self-published. Contested PROD. czar · · 05:40, 18 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Merge with Space Empire Elite and redirect. -- 173.247.200.74 (talk) 22:31, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete unless more sources found.--Salix (talk): 22:14, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:GNG. There are no independent sources cited; I couldn't find any when I looked last month nor again today. The article makes no credible claim of notability. Cnilep (talk) 07:15, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. After decrapification and rewrite.  Sandstein  08:23, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Flexible tanks[edit]

Flexible tanks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Incomprehensible text, seems to be corporate or advertising mrw (talk) 10:04, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment. This was a coherent (but unreferenced) stub article as of February 2012. An anon IP editor rewrote it in May 2012. • Gene93k (talk) 17:50, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep - yes, before May 2012 this was a perfectly sensible stub. Suggest we start from there and seek sources. SAE International: Aircraft Flexible Tanks General Design and Installation Recommendations 1996. [www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr527.pdf Health and Safety Executive: Fluid structure interaction effects on and dynamic response of pressure vessels and tanks subjected to dynamic loading, 2007] (rigid and flexible tanks). Australian Government National Water Commission: Rainwater Tank Design and Installation Handbook, 2008. A primary source is Fem Seismic Analysis Of Steel Tanks For Oil Storage In Industrial Facilities (14th WCEE, 2008). There's a little history in Grace's Guide: Marston Excelsior re fuel tanks for WWII aircraft. I'm sure water engineers could readily find more and better sources than these. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've boldly cleaned up the article (more or less a revert to before May 2012) with the more sensible OR snippets from May 2012, added these sources and started with an inline ref. Help please. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:57, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Flexible thermoplastic or elastomer water tanks and rubber gas tanks have been in use since the 1950s. Article improved per CC's request.  The Steve  21:59, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Have added some more, we're up to 7 inline citations and a nice history now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:55, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to The Beatles discography#Compilation albums.  Sandstein  09:08, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Essential Beatles[edit]

The Essential Beatles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable Beatles compilation. There are dozens of one-off compilations released in foreign markets and nothing shows that this one is particularly special or has critical commentary. PROD was denied. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:58, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Merge / redirect to The Beatles discography#Compilation albums. To say the band are notable is a bit more than just an understatement, and even obscure compilations can be notable, but only if they appear in multiple, independent, reliable sources - which this one doesn't. If it's non-notable Beatles albums you're after, try The Beatles vs the Third Reich instead. --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:18, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete.  Sandstein  08:24, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mard ha ra qoul ast[edit]

Mard ha ra qoul ast (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable film, not much sourced, no specific info about the film (e.g. When did the film premiered, how much is the budget, writers of the film, producers of the film, director of the film, gross of the film, cast, etc.) Mediran ^{talk|contribs} 05:38, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• The nominator makes a good case for expanding this article rather than deleting it. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:28, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Currently a copyvio from [18]. However that site does seem to indicate this might be an important film in the history of Afgan films. However none of the sources really provide notability so it has to be Delete.--Salix (talk): 22:32, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete.  Sandstein  09:09, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Megabeat 3[edit]

Megabeat 3 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Lacks notability per WP:MUSIC and WP:NALBUMS, and completely unreferenced. - MrX 03:55, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - Nothing in the article indicates enough notability to pass WP:N. A quick search on Google brings up a lot of YouTube links, but I don't see any sources indicating much notability. Note that there are also Megabeat 1 and Megabeat 2 articles which have the same lack of notability and lack of reliable sources issues so they should probably be added to this nomination. Holyfield1998 (talk) 18:17, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:10, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Richard Delvone Ray[edit]

Richard Delvone Ray (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Hi all. I had trouble finding any secondary-sources on this musical artist - it is unclear where the information in the article comes from. I will happily withdraw ths nomination if sources are indentified, but for now I think this article may not meet the musician biography criteria. Your thoughts? Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 02:47, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - There is absolutely zero reliable evidence to suggest he is notable despite searching Google News and Google Books with "Richard Delvone Ray" and his alias "Mid-City Finite Square". However, I found profiles at Podomatic and Facebook. SwisterTwister talk 21:29, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. I would've given this one a csd. Doesn't seem notable. Dengero (talk) 11:04, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:08, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Be the One (Lloyd song)[edit]

Be the One (Lloyd song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Notability tag since Dec. 2011. Is this really notable enough for its own article? The only ref is the music video. No critical commentary, etc. TV (talk) 00:23, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. The song almost charted; not notable. - MrX 02:22, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - did not chart, no references. Lukeno94 (talk) 18:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 12:54, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

INVO Bioscience[edit]

INVO Bioscience (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Highly promotional orphaned article that reads like a sales pamphlet. Continual discussion of "lower price", "more effective" (without proof). Unsourced, and does not meet WP:CORP (✉→BWilkins←✎) 10:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Sources do not demonstrate notability.--Hu12 (talk) 03:39, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - The article as written skirts the line of irredeemable advertising. The sourcing in the article fails to demonstrate notability. My own searches turn up a flood of press releases and some minor mentions. the best of the lot is this item. i just don't see the coverage needed. -- Whpq (talk) 17:25, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 12:54, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hassan Bashir[edit]

Hassan Bashir (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Article was previously deleted per WP:PROD, because the article fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. This remains valid, as he hasn't played in a fully pro league or represented his country at senior level. Mentoz86 (talk) 10:08, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. GiantSnowman 17:26, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - still fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Sir Sputnik (talk) 03:32, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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