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The result was delete. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 00:12, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Telegraph Records[edit]

Telegraph Records (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Defunct record label which I can only find mentioned in passing or on its own website. Mangoe (talk) 21:55, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete – After performing assorted source searches, not finding any coverage at all in reliable sources, let alone significant coverage. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:01, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as per nomination; article is a stub that lacks sourcing, too.TH1980 (talk) 02:08, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - I can't find any reliable sources at all, except for the label's webpage. I can't even find unreliable sources. Non-notable by any definition. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 12:05, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:33, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Earth Fare[edit]

Earth Fare (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails WP:NCORP. Less than 50 locations (I seem to find that at least 100 locations passes NCORP) and no presented notability. There are dozens of health food stores, being one in multiple states doesn't make it notable. Redditaddict69 ^{(talk) (contribs)} 21:40, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment – A good AfD nom to look at similar to this is WP:Articles for deletion/Kilwins. Corp with 125+ locations in 20+ states. Barely passed as no consensus. Redditaddict69 ^{(talk) (contribs)} 00:05, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep, added a couple secondary sources. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 00:07, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Can't see how two sources can help meet WP:GNG. Yes, they count towards it, but they aren't generally recognized as sufficient. Redditaddict69 ^{(talk) (contribs)} 00:11, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• @Redditaddict69: I said "weak keep" because I was still in the process of adding sources. Most of what I'm finding is coverage of new store openings, but this seems like particularly substantial coverage, as does this article in a retail trade magazine (albeit a Google Books snippet). Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 00:26, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Added a ref to a 1300+ word profile from 1998 in The Post and Courier. Bakazaka (talk) 06:49, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as sources in article and available in newspaper databases meet WP:NCORP requirements for significant, in-depth coverage. "Number of locations" is not part of policy or guidelines, except when discussing whether individual stores should have articles, which is not applicable here. Pre-internet coverage matters just as much as Google-able coverage, and this company has it, primarily because of their unusual and early pursuit of organic food as a niche market. Several sources are local, but WP:NCORP is clear: "the significance is not determined by the reputation of the source" but by reliability and independence, both of which are met by available sources. Bakazaka (talk) 01:02, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep There appear to be enough sources - [1] [2][3][4], should qualify under WP:GNG and WP:NCORP. It seems unusual but there are a lot of passing mentions in Google Scholar, which suggest that the company, unlike Kilwins, registers strongly in the consciousness of the academia, even if passing mentions don't qualify for notability purposes (I should also say that I had not check all of them to see if they are more in-depth coverage there). Hzh (talk) 23:25, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Authenticity (reenactment). -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:13, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Farb (reenactment)[edit]

Farb (reenactment) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This is a definition, not an encyclopedic article. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 21:37, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• merge to Authenticity (reenactment) Farbies are a well-known notion, but there's no reason to talk about the term outside a discussion of reenacting authenticity in general. Mangoe (talk) 21:58, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• merge to Authenticity (reenactment) I agree with the reason listed above.TH1980 (talk) 00:27, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Sandstein 12:53, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Terry Moore (broadcaster)[edit]

Terry Moore (broadcaster) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Biography of a recently deceased local radio host, whose claims of notability are resting on directly affiliated primary sources rather than independent ones. Of the ten footnotes here, eight are connected to his own employer: four come directly from the radio station he worked for, two come from its co-owned television sister station, and two are reprints in two different newspapers of the same wire service obituary written by his radio station's own news director. And of the two remaining footnotes, one is the publication details of his own book cited as metareferencing for its own existence, which is not how you reference a person over WP:AUTHOR as a writer either. As always, to be considered notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia both broadcasters and writers need to have independent coverage about them in sources that don't directly issue their paycheques -- but the only reference here that actually meets that standard is a brief and unsubstantive blurb on the website of his same media market's other television station, which is not enough coverage all by itself to deem him notable if all of the other sources fail the "unaffiliated" condition. Bearcat (talk) 16:35, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Speedy Keep I am afraid this AfD seems rather disingenuous WRT the sources used in this article; the first ref is an obituary in the National Post which may not be my favourite newspaper but which would certainly count as a source for establishing notability. There's also references in the article currently to CTV as a source. This subject, clearly meets WP:GNG and I can't understand how his former employer, also a media organization, having eulogized him, and that being used as a source of uncontroversial information on this obviously notable person would be grounds for deletion. Simonm223 (talk) 17:31, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am not being disingenuous at all. The National Post did not write its own independent obituary of him; it merely ran a wire service article distributed by Canadian Press, which is bylined "Ryan Price, CFAX" — which means it was written by Terry Moore's own colleague, not by a journalist independent of him. (And yes, by the way, Ryan Price does verify on Google as an employee of CFAX.) And The Globe and Mail doesn't bolster his notability either, because that citation is actually the same wire service article, still bylined Ryan Price. And the CTV sourcing is to CTV's local station in Victoria, not to the national network — and Bell Media, the owner of CTV, is also the owner of CFAX. So that source is still not independent of him, but still represents directly affiliated coverage from his own employer's co-owned sister station. I am evaluating all of this exactly correctly according to what the sources actually are, namely non-independent coverage created by his own colleagues — passing GNG always depends on receiving independent coverage in sources the article subject is not directly affiliated with, and can never be gamed by the subject's own employer's self-created metacontent about its own staff. Bearcat (talk) 18:22, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Bell media owns nearly half of the TV and radio stations in Canada. That's hardly a strong argument against the reliability of the sources. Simonm223 (talk) 18:40, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sources do not just have to be reliable to aid in making a person notable — they also have to be independent of the subject. Media companies cannot singlehandedly make their own employees notable by "covering" those employees themselves — Bell Media-owned sources help toward establishing notability if they're covering employees of Corus or Rogers or the CBC, but not if they're covering employees of Bell Media; Corus-owned sources help toward establishing notability if they're covering employees of Bell or Rogers or the CBC, but not if they're covering employees of Corus; and on and so forth. Each company counts for significantly less as evidence toward the notability of its own employees than it does as evidence toward the notability of the other companies' employees — because each company fails the independence test with regard to its own employees. Bearcat (talk) 18:49, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're, at best, being far too strict in your interpretation of independence by trying to exclude all Bell Media companies plus a National Post article derived from CP. Notwithstanding the origin of the Post article, it was subject to National Post editorial guidelines for inclusion. Simonm223 (talk) 18:53, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, I'm being exactly 100 per cent correct in my interpretation of independence. The "CTV" coverage, again, is not from the national CTV News division, but from its local news staff in Victoria, which is a direct sister station to CFAX, and thus they are covering their own coworker. The wire service obituary is explicitly bylined with the name of an employee of CFAX, who is thus covering his own coworker. The citations to CFAX itself are covering their own coworker. I'm not incorrect about one iota of this. Bearcat (talk) 18:58, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)The wire service may have originally been bylined by one of his co-workers but the National Post editorial board approved its inclusion; it was subject to their editorial standards. Considering the monopsony of Bell, Rogers, Corus and Shaw in the Canadian media landscape almost every media personality is a technical co-worker of a huge chunk of other media personalities. The standard you're setting is such that we couldn't use Global TV as a source to report on Mike Holmes despite there being nothing but a parent company connecting them. Simonm223 (talk) 19:02, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter that "the National Post editorial board approved its inclusion" — if the byline is from his own coworker, then it is not independent of Terry Moore and fails to constitute support for Terry Moore's notability regardless of who reprints it after his own coworker sends it out. The byline de-independents the source all by itself, because the content's author was a direct personal colleague of the subject.

And what you're missing — the reason why your Mike Holmes comparison doesn't wash — is that it is entirely possible for a source to be perfectly acceptable for the purposes of verifying information, while not counting as data points toward the initial matter of getting the subject over GNG in the first place. Once a person such as Mike Holmes has already shown enough non-Corus sourcing (which Mike Holmes very definitely has) to get him over GNG in the first place, then there's nothing wrong with using some Corus sourcing as supplementary verification of facts after his basic notability has already been clinched by unaffiliated non-Corus stuff — but what you can't do is deem Mike Holmes notable if Corus sourcing is the only sourcing there is, and unaffiliated non-Corus sourcing is nonexistent. (This is, for example, why the repeated attempts to write articles about the Real Housewives of Toronto keep failing AFD: they're lacking the unaffiliated non-Corus sourcing that Mike Holmes has.)

It's the same thing here: the directly affiliated sources would be fine for additional verification of facts if Terry Moore's basic notability were covered off by unaffiliated sources, but the directly affiliated sources do not count toward the basic matter of whether he's notable enough in the first place. Unaffiliated sources have to cover off that piece, and then an affiliated source or two can be used to verify additional stray facts afterward — but directly affiliated sources do not, and cannot, make a person notable all by themselves in the absence of adequate unaffiliated sourcing. Bearcat (talk) 19:21, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)I'd say a media personality with a 60+ year long career whose obituary is picked up nationally through a wire service by media outlets as disparate as City TV, National Post, London Free Press, etc. etc. etc. can be assumed pretty safely to be clearly independently notable. Simonm223 (talk) 19:24, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If his own coworkers created all of the sources themselves, then no, he can't. Wikipedia offers no notability freebies for the length of a person's career — the notability test is not what the article says, it's the quality and independence of the references that can or can't be used to support what the article says, and a person whose sources are all directly affiliated content created by his own colleagues does not get exempted from the independent references piece just because he happened to have a long career. Bearcat (talk) 19:26, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This line of reasoning would only work if every newspaper and TV station in Canada published every single article CP produces every time. And trust me, that's not the case. Media outlets select which wire service articles they republish, and that means that those wire service articles are subject to independent editorial control. The byline is irrelevant from that perspective. I mean, should it be a shock that a person's obit was written by his colleague? That's kind of normal. But for that obituary to run nationally across multiple media channels is notable.Simonm223 (talk) 12:28, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not normal for the initial news story reporting someone's death to be written by their own colleague. The death notice that runs in the classifieds might be, if there was no family or they're too grief-stricken, and the Lives Lived in The Globe and Mail three months from now might be — but it's not normal or expected for the only news story initially reporting the death of a notable person to be written by their own colleague. If a person was genuinely notable, in fact, then each major national media outlet would be assigning its own staff to write its own original content about their death, not just aggregating a single wire service article written by the person's own colleague. Bearcat (talk) 13:36, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - the article is a WP:MEMORIAL, which is an issue that could be overcome if better coverage existed on details of his life prior to his death. But I can't find it at all, the only reporting I can find on any aspect of his life is contained in an obituary. If I limit my Googling to a few months prior to his death, I find a little incidental coverage of his broadcasting career, mostly notes in radio history blogs that he moved from one station to another, but no significant write-ups. I find no coverage at all on his opera work, his best-selling book(s?), nor his work in film and television. I also, weakly, share Bearcat's concerns that we only see obituaries penned by Moore's co-worker and only republished in media affiliated with the owner of their radio station - not because I think this makes them poor sources (it doesn't) but because it indicates that Moore's death was not considered noteworthy beyond a local scale, else you would see other outlets (even affiliated ones) writing their own obituaries. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:15, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep - the article about this person does say that he was a best-selling author, so the article on him might be worth salvaging. Vorbee (talk) 08:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Any article about any author can simply claim that they're a "best-selling author" — that's actually one of the single most common ways for self-promoting writers to try to game our rules, by self-ascribing one or more of their books with "best-selling" status that they don't actually have at all. So we don't keep articles about writers just because the word "best-selling" happens to appear in the text — we require reliable source proof that the book was actually a best-seller, by citing exact day and date of the exact edition of The Globe and Mail's best-seller list that the book showed up in, before the word "best-selling" turns into a valid notability claim in and of itself. (Oh, and one more thing: I can check the archives of The Globe and Mail to see if a book ever showed up on the Canadian bestsellers list or not. Wanna take a wild guess what book doesn't turn up when I search for it?) Bearcat (talk) 17:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. I get the noms argument but its too strict an interpretation of independent for this. Szzuk (talk) 09:14, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not "too strict an interpretation of independent" at all. If a media company creating and distributing "coverage" of its own employees is enough to make those employees notable, then we automatically have to keep an article about every single radio or television personality who exists in any city or town — every such person can always show verification of their existence on their station's website, and some form of "tribute" content on their station when they leave for another job or die. So if we don't hold to the correctly strict definition of "independent", then every broadcaster on earth gets an instant guaranteed inclusion freebie. Bearcat (talk) 19:29, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Bearcat may be strict, but he's right; an article syndicated from the subject's own radio station (and I don't understand how CA is sourcing from a radio station, which going by most radio station websites, is just a transcript of the radio story, which #1 completely reads as) doesn't meet N, along with all the others sourced to the station itself. This reads more as a MEMORIAL than a neutral look at the subject's life. Nate • (chatter) 13:16, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I appreciate Bearcat's outstanding contributions and time invested to review this entry, however, I cannot agree to delete it. The person in question has not only been a public media figure, but at death received a broad coverage. The argument that the obituary losses validity because it was written by the Canadian Press is, for me, unsupportive. What matters the most is the spread of a news story. If the obituary was reprinted and re-voiced from multiple media outlets that's more than enough to become notable. I agree that the WP entry reads like a memorial (WP:MEMORIAL), but that has never been a reason for deletion where the coverage from reliable sources even crosses national borders (here). Den... (talk) 16:39, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can you find any sources about him from before he died? Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 16:51, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody said that the obituary loses validity because it comes from the Canadian Press. What was said, and is true, is that the author byline on the obituary is Moore's own colleague. It loses validity because it was written by his own friend — its status as a wire service article isn't the problem in and of itself, it just fails to be enough to negate the thing that is the problem, namely the fact that it was written by his own friend and thus isn't independent of him. And the only hint of "crossing national borders" that shows up in that Google search at all is the Puget Sound Radio forum, which is not a reliable or notability-conferring source at the best of times — and isn't evidence that he's special, either, because it routinely includes Van-Vic in its coverage area and so an obit of a Van-Vic radio personality would simply be expected to show up there. Bearcat (talk) 23:01, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 04:50, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Buulo Weyn[edit]

Buulo Weyn (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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As an "estate" it has to pass a higher standard than just being a "dot on a map", which it isn't anyway (best location for it is in the middle of a bunch of fields). There's one passing reference which doesn't say anything about what it is; everyhting else is either geonames mirrors or us or the usual geoclickbait. Mangoe (talk) 21:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete the only claim is that there is (or might be) a large farm of this name; GNG/GEOLAND are not met. power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:27, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Suggest redirect to the district. Deb (talk) 15:09, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Consensus to keep, though it has been pointed out that the article has issues that need work. Tone 04:54, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Eric Ding[edit]

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Eric Ding (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Since an IP is now edit warring over a notability tag that's been on the article for a while, I guess it's time for AfD. This seems to me to fail WP:NACADEMIC as someone who has only won minor awards and has received only passing mentions in news coverage, certainly not the "significant" coverage we'd expect for WP:GNG. Quantity doesn't equal quality. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:03, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Speedy Keep - per WP:PROF#1 based on citation counts in Google Scholar [5] Thsmi002 (talk) 03:14, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Thsmi002: Fyi, since this caused a bit of confusion earlier, "speedy keep" is not the same as "strong keep". Speedy keep has its own list of criteria at WP:SK, and isn't something to be thrown around lightly. – FenixFeather ^{(talk)(Contribs)} 22:20, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@FenixFeather: Thanks! Thsmi002 (talk) 11:24, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment This is a really hard one to analyse on WP:GNG grounds. Per WP:PROF, he is mentioned in several different papers, and is the lead on one or two of them with a bunch of citations. He's been name dropped in a bunch of different articles. He fails WP:NPOL. The article is so badly source-bombed and promotional that it's difficult to understand what exactly he's notable for, or how he would pass WP:NACADEMIC. I have no comment either way apart from the fact this at the very least needs WP:TNT, if not deletion. SportingFlyer talk 01:43, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Though he didn't win his race for Congress, he did get double digit % votes, seemed to have good fundraising according to FEC.gov website for his PA 10th campaign. FEC filings for his committee also showed 3 unions endorsements. And Science seemed to have done an in depth profile on him ^[1], which conforms to WP:SIGCOV.

• As for his academics, he has a first authored New England Journal of Medicine paper from 2009, and several first and senior author JAMA papers over the years, plus an H-Index of 62 (as of October 5, 2018)^[2]. NYT did a 2011 in depth profile^[3] and he had a few book chapter features over several years (e.g. this book chapter^[4] was also detailed). Various independent credible sources. Recommend strong keep, but agree it can be cleaned up slightly.Dthut (talk) 08:29, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• COMMENT He was recognized in 2012 with the Ten Outstanding Young Leaders (TOYL) Award from the Boston Chamber of Commerce. Recent TOYL award winners^[5] include members of the city council and Congress like Joe Kennedy III, Seth Moulton, and the unopposed incoming 2019 Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley. Maryam Hu (talk) 20:20, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Note to closer: The following two comments were from contributors making their first and third edits to Wikipedia. SportingFlyer talk 20:27, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete?/Prof cites. I opened around half of the refs in the article, the coverage is mixed, from trivial to semi OK but based upon them alone I want to delete. I have a question mark in my vote because I can't remember how to read the PROF cites "count". So an explanation of what is a lot and what is little would be helfpul. Szzuk (talk) 09:27, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• KEEP His page doesn't mention it - but he developed several commonly used scientific methods not on this Wiki page. For example, the 'Isotemporal Substitution' model used in physical activity epidemiology - he developed it originally. And it's pretty well known as described in this paper's 2nd paragraph quote that called his original paper (by Mekary et al) a "seminal" work^[1], which came from a systematic review of the 56 studies worldwide that have been arisen out of his method. Someone could maybe add this detail to his profile, though I agree the page should be cleaned up a little. I would pare down his awards list - maybe delete all the ones are that isn't the PD Soros and TOYL award, that someone mentioned above. But I recommend keeping his page. Sahiljain22 (talk) 09:39, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's the third comment or keep vote from an inexperienced contributor in four days - what exactly is going on here? SportingFlyer talk 10:19, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

SportingFlyer - its not an IP war. I know a few public health/medical research scientists have monitored his page over the years ever since 2014 when someone unscrupulous unfairly maligned and attacked him and his family (records under federal court). We just noticed the new deletion discussion and decided to chime in - but only on his scientific and public health work. Dthut (talk) 11:41, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I'm neutral, but the three SPAs above look like either socks or off-wiki canvassed !voters. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:46, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Dear Hijiri88 - I'm also NOT a random canvasser. For example, I'm a board-certified physician - and my username is my real name (I'm a primary care doctor). We are simply giving our scientific opinions. And nothing we said is some generic unsupported commentary - but rather discussion of Eric Ding's scientific work, and cite other independent reviews that objectively mentioned his work. Sahiljain22 (talk) 07:12, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Umm... I never accused you of being a canvasser; I said canvassee. And how did you find out about this AFD? Do you know someone here off-wiki? Or Ding himself? If the latter, you should definitely read WP:COI: on Wikipedia, it doesn't matter if someone, especially your friend, says you are an important leader in your field; standalone biographical articles require reliable, independent sources covering the topic in enough depth to fill out an article. Also, could you clarify if you have any connection, to your knowledge, to the article's creator, Milton129 (talk · contribs)? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:06, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I watch the page. I have never worked with him. I have not encountered him other than once >10 years ago. I have no idea who Milton129 is - I did not create the paper. I'm removed any earlier unnecessary opinions. End of the day, I only chimed in to point out his scientific work.

• Comment Dear Szzuk - the citation count that Thsmi002 mentioned in his/her 'keep' statement perhaps refers to his Google Scholar citation count and H-Index.^[2] While there are differences in academic fields, an H-Index>60 is respectable. Though don't simply take my word - you may google 'what is a good H-index'^[3], or read the entry on H-index which I have never touched. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahiljain22 (talk • contribs) 07:10, 9 October 2018 (UTC) Sahiljain22 (talk) 07:12, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. His H-Index as an independent author appears to be just 4, as a co-author with 100+ others it is 57. [6] I'm not sure what the wikipedia guidelines are with regard to authored material and co-authored. If he'd authored those documents solely there would be nothing left to discuss. Szzuk (talk) 13:29, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I've never heard of an 'independent author H-index' being used in academia. Virtually all scientific papers have co-authors. Sole authored papers are almost unheard of other than op-ed/editorial pieces. And not sure what your value of '4' and '57' from your linked URL is referring... there is an 'Eric Y. Ding' who has 4 papers, but he doesn't have a Y middle initial, and that 4 is not an H-index value. H-index is not complicated - its the joint max of both citations/paper & # of papers, which one can manually eyeball in the citation-sorted list of pubs. Honestly, don't take my word, just find a random friend of yours who works in academia and ask him/her what a good H-index or citation count is. I'm not going to comment any further here other than say I think this article should be significantly condensed - and future edits should be vigorously enforced against fluff. You guys seem diligent and should all police it. best, Sahiljain22 (talk) 01:52, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I was originally going to stay out of this AFD because it's a complete mess of an article to go through, but it seems like this AFD has just been overwhelmed by people who have been canvassed here. Can keep editors provide a few (just 2-3) independent, reliable sources that cover this person in significant detail? Quality matters more than quantity on Wikipedia, and let's not make participants in this AFD have to go through the WP:REFBOMB that this article has. – FenixFeather ^{(talk)(Contribs)} 19:16, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• I believe what User:FenixFeather is trying to say is WP:THREE. -- RoySmith (talk) 21:55, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Leaning Keep The article is rather a mess, managing almost to bury the subject's strongest claim to notability under a mass of what experienced Wikipedia editors tend to see as largely promotional detail masquerading as notability. However, the subject's h-index of 65 would be stupendously high in most fields, particularly for someone who is still only 35. In the subject's field of research, in which papers with 100 or so authors seem to be common, this is obviously not quite so rare an achievement but I am still inclined to regard it as fairly comfortably high enough to judge the subject as notable by meeting WP:NACADEMIC#1, particularly given that several of the papers with hundreds of citations either have the subject as lead author or as one of only four or five collaborators (or both). Looking at the article and some of the available sources, I think it quite likely that the subject could also be shown to meet WP:NACADEMIC#7 - though doing so would require the subject's campaigning and advocacy activities to be treated more carefully and from quite a different angle than is currently done in the article (and, however odd it might seem, with rather less emphasis on the subject). However, the subject's recent political candidacy, while worth a short sentence in the article as a verifiable point of interest, effectively adds nothing to the subject's notability - particularly as the subject did not win his primary. Finally, a small plea for the (at least apparent) WP:SPAs - this is just the kind of WP:AfD which is likely to attract people with only a very indirect connection with the subject but a substantial respect for them. Every remark I have seen from them above suggests no (at least conscious) WP:COIs and a genuine (if inexperienced and extremely intermittent) belief in building the encyclopedia. PWilkinson (talk) 22:25, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, but shorten Agree with above, the subject is notable, but the article length is way too long, unreadable and biased, so the article needs to be significantly revamped/just straight rewritten. Parts like this need to be removed: "was recognized in The New York Times", the political campaign endorsements and funding, the awards being stated both on the infobox and article, and repeated full title Poison Pills: The Untold Story of the Vioxx Drug Scandal. If kept future editors should read WP:NPOV. MarkiPoli (talk) 16:00, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 02:18, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Diane Falkenhagen[edit]

Diane Falkenhagen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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BLP fails WP:NBIO. Article relies almost entirely on primary sources - external links at that, and has been doing so for almost a decade now. WP:BEFORE check failed to bring up anything of note. Kirbanzo (talk) 03:16, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep (see explanation for the change below). Caballero/Historiador ^⎌ 22:17, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Completely agree with the OP. It reads like a resume and fails to show any notability. Caballero/Historiador ^⎌

• Keep I cleaned up the article and found plenty of good references about her and her work. I hope that Caballero1967 will take a second look. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:49, 6 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• @Megalibrarygirl: Reviewing your comments and following your leads have made me change my mind about my vote. Thanks for cleaning up the article and for pointing out to the coverage Falkenhagen has received, but you or someone else, may want to spend a bit more time with it. I still think the article fails to demonstrate its significance (GNG). Right from the first sentence, the reader should understand that Falkenhagen’s work is significant enough to justify its own WP entry. Caballero/Historiador ^⎌

• Keep - Post clean-up, I do think there is sufficient coverage to satisfy notability requirements. Tone is iffy, but just warrants additional clean-up, not removal. Nosebagbear (talk) 21:35, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:56, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew Eyton-Jones[edit]

Matthew Eyton-Jones (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non notable. Fails WP:BIO. It is all about CERN. Fails WP:SIGCOV. Promotional. scope_creep (talk) 21:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. I've been through the sources and removed those that blatantly did not verify the claims they were being used for. The only claim to notability in the sources is that he is CEO of CERN's Pension Fund. A WP:BEFORE search does not find more. Fails to meet WP:ANYBIO or WP:GNG. Melcous (talk) 21:43, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete, not notable for stand alone article. Kierzek (talk) 14:35, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. —SpacemanSpiff 03:19, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Blossom Academic School[edit]

Blossom Academic School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Two sentences and a blatantly Photoshopped image about a school in India. No sources available from what I can tell and no attempt has been made to cite any since February 2016. Wodgester (talk) 16:44, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment, c'mon any school called blossom cant be bad:)), BAS appears to be an elementary school located at Jevpur (according to gmaps (L-shaped building south of Jevpur-Mahewa Road), so it can be mentioned there. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:47, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment, I have to agree with you there regarding a merger but the creator of the article is long gone and I'm not experienced enough to figure out the process. Then again, Jevpur itself is a tiny, also unreferenced mess itself so is it really worth it? Wodgester (talk) 13:15, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - @Coolabahapple:, @Wodgester: - I was going to say merge, since Jevpur would generally be viewed as safe via GEOLAND, despite its awful quality. But there isn't actually any reliable source to demonstrate the school's existence - adding it to the article could actually reduce the quality. Redirecting wouldn't make any sense given that we'd be redirecting to an article that makes no mention of it. Thus I think delete (without prejudice) is appropriate. Thoughts?

• you may be right, although there are sites like here that list it, CBSE doesnt (Blossum Senior Secondary School is a different school), so probably better to delete. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:03, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete All sounds about right.Wodgester (talk) 15:34, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 00:12, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Shob Choritro Kalponik[edit]

Shob Choritro Kalponik (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails WP:NTV. No sources, thereby failing WP:GNG and WP:V. WP:BEFORE check did not bring up anything of note. Kirbanzo (talk) 09:40, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete as per the above reasons.TH1980 (talk) 00:49, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete non-notible and lacking in available sources. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 21:37, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. I have added a citation to this mention on ToI, but it is merely a TNN blurb. Fails GNG and NTV as it stands. Sam Sailor 07:17, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Seems to have been deleted, but this was never closed? -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:15, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Strange Place[edit]

A Strange Place (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Notability of student film not established. Article appears to be written by writer/director. Release and reception section features promotional and unsourced material. ^†Basilosauridae❯❯❯Talk 13:43, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. There isn't the significant coverage required for an article on wikipedia. Szzuk (talk) 15:42, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete mere WP:PROMO for a student film. Fails WP:NFILM.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:40, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:15, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Amon-Ra St. Brown[edit]

Amon-Ra St. Brown (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Does not meet Wikipedia:CFBNOTE and may be WP:TOOSOON. No notable achievements with so far during his college career. GPL93 (talk) 16:29, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep Passes WP:GNG with ease.--Yankees10 17:26, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete probably WP:TOOSOON, the best sources are about his family, not about him. SportingFlyer talk 21:03, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep/Merge there's a significant amount of coverage about his family and he's a part of that as highly rated prospect. Possibly worth an article about the family? Note: yes, I'll copy the same to his brother's AfD as I created that one after finding this and not that StarM 00:39, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete and Merge Most the information on this page can be moved to the personal life section of his brother's page GPL93 (talk) 01:16, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Agree with your location, but not deleting. No reason to lose the history/content. It can be trimmed StarM 22:47, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• keep feature articles like this one really point to Notability.--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:15, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say the article points more to that his family is notable, not the individual. None of the 5 points in the article focus specifically on Osiris or Amon-Ra. GPL93 (talk) 20:12, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The title is "5 things to know about the wide receiving St. Brown brothers as Stanford visits Notre Dame" --Paul McDonald (talk) 20:38, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, as SportingFlyer pointed out earlier most of his coverage are more about the family as a whole than the two younger brothers.GPL93 (talk) 20:57, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep This article is specifically about him. So is this. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 13:41, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep definitley passes WP:GNG. this is about him as well. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 21:30, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Significant coverage in the Chicago Tribune, LA Times, Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and Bleacher Report. Passes WP:GNG.--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 15:45, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Passes GNG by a mile. — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)} 17:02, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:57, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jenni Menon Mariano[edit]

Jenni Menon Mariano (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Doubtful notability. Not finding independent in-depth coverage in reliable sources - lack of WP:SIGCOV. Google Scholar gives cite numbers of 44, 36, 29, 20, 11.Fails WP:BIO and WP:NACADEMIC. Edwardx (talk) 18:40, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete Fails WP:NPROF. scope_creep (talk) 21:24, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete I don't believe either WP:GNG or WP:NPROF is met. Papaursa (talk) 17:39, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:58, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

House of Hakim[edit]

House of Hakim (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Related to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hakim Shah Jahan, a supposed member of this dynasty. The article was created by someone whom I highly suspect to be a sockpuppet of a notorious inventor of Punjabi noble history, but that subcase was closed as stale. Anyway, I cannot find a single reliable reference for its mere existence. It is also unconventional to say the least, that a dynasty is named after its last member instead of its founder. HyperGaruda (talk) 19:00, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete, it looks very dubious to me. I would expect to see a substantial discussion of the Hakim's in one of the sources of the lead, but it's not there. The three sources in the lead are;
  • Tīmūr Lang's article in the Encyclopaedia of Islam. I don't have full access to this, but there is no mention of any Hakim in the article lintroduction. Perhaps someone with full access can confirm. The source is meant to verify that the Hakims are a branch of the Timurids. There is also no entry for any 18th-century ruler named Hakim.
  • The Mughal Empire, mentions Prince Bidar Bakht, but does not verify any connection with the Hakims, the fact that the source is supposed to be verifying.
  • Merchants, Politics, and Society in Early Modern India: Bihar, 1733-1820 refers to several Mirza's but I'm not seeing Bidar Dil Mirza, let alone that he was a Hakim, the fact the source is supposed to be verifying.

I looked at one more source, Emperors Of The Peacock Throne, and then gave it up as a bad job. The only Hakim in this book led an Uzbeg invasion of Punjab in 1580. Not only is this the wrong date (two centuries too early) but the invasion did not succeed and Hakim did not become ruler. SpinningSpark 12:22, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep (non-admin closure).—Mythdon (talk • contribs) 09:21, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Squad Wars[edit]

Squad Wars (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I haven't found any non-routine, non-pre-release coverage in reliable sources, except the Stevenson Villager review. wumbolo ^^^ 15:33, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep per existing sources plus these: [7] [8] Modernponderer (talk) 11:36, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep considering it easily meets the WP:GNG criteria per sources in the article and what ModernPonderer posted. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 07:59, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep (non-admin closure).—Mythdon (talk • contribs) 09:19, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Prank Academy (web series)[edit]

Prank Academy (web series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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There is a little coverage, but no significant reliable source commentary. wumbolo ^^^ 15:15, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Strong keep: Even the sources already in the article are sufficient to pass GNG, but here's several more: [9] [10] [11] [12] (and also the first existing link can be replaced with [13] for more in-depth coverage) Modernponderer (talk) 11:20, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong keep: Literally the same thing as with Squad Wars nomination. Lots of sources presented in here and in the article, passes WP:GNG easily. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 08:00, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) So said The Great Wiki Lord. (talk) 18:48, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Stephen Robert Morse[edit]

Stephen Robert Morse (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I don't think either WP:BIO or WP:FILMMAKER are met. Most of the sources only mention him in passing, mainly related to EuroTrump (which is notable) and for example in Newsweek the subject is discussing Geert Wilders (the subject of EuroTrump) but there is nothing biographical about Morse. This source from broadcastnow.co.uk is probably the best in-depth coverage, but as a specialist trade publication it doesn't confer a great deal (if any) notability. Likewise, alumni publications don't confer notability either. SmartSE (talk) 20:59, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The Emmy nomination is adequate evidence that the subject is a significant film maker. There's an alternative to deletion such as merger with a work such as Amanda Knox (film). Our editing policy, WP:PRESERVE, would thus apply. There's also their work for Mother Jones (see Dissed Trust), which seems to have attracted attention. Andrew D. (talk) 21:51, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WP:MUSIC contains a criterion about awards, but there is nothing in FILMMAKER that says being nominated for an award makes producers notable. I had meant to say in the nom that I would support a merge and redirect to EuroTrump if the article existed. SmartSE (talk) 12:44, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why not write the article? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:16, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I should be able to get to it later today.--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 13:30, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep 1-2 million viewed viral video about the New Black Panthers, notable business MyTwoCensus, notable film Amanda Knox, notable film EuroTrump (I know, we don't have an article yet, but it's only a matter of time), many in-depth sources covering the guy. I've improved the article, almost doubling its original size and adding many references. I know Morse gets a lot of flak and abuse on social media for cuddling up to right-wingers like Steve Bannon and Geert Wilders, but I think he's just doing the same as Ed Balls and shining a light on what some people actually think, so we can all learn. This is one of the few places on the 'net you can get a totally unbiased and neutral view of Morse, so we should hold on to it. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:38, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm absolutely amazed to need to say this but WP:NOTINHERITED covers most of your rationale. Please clarify which links are "many in-depth sources covering the guy" poetsandquants is in-depth, but not reliable. philly is the best so far, but that's still a single reliable source providing substantial coverage of the subject. The remainder seems to be WP:ILIKEIT. SmartSE (talk) 12:44, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see how WP:NOTINHERITED is met. It's not saying "all filmmakers are notable", "all people who've created two films are notable", "all people who've interviewed right-wing despot maniacs are notable" or anything of the sort. I've had that argument lots of times - in response, you need to look at WP:ATD, specifically WP:ATD-R, which suggests a redirect. What do you want to redirect to? There are too many choices = default to "keep". An actual WP:ILIKEIT !vote would be more like "Stephen Robert Morse rulez lol he shows those libtards what Trump Bannon and Wilders can do to u dems. TRUMP FOR 2020!!! lol". Anyway, there are more dedicated sources dealing with Morse as the main subject, such as this one. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:14, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep it's pretty clear from the above two contributors that this is easily worth keeping. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:26, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. As there is a significant (tho possibly non-notable) film besides the one nominated for an award, and other work, it justifies a separate aticle, not merely a merge to Amanda Knox. DGG ( talk ) 21:04, 6 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep is now sufficiently referenced and meets GNG.Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:05, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:59, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Anna Nikolskaya-Ekseli[edit]

Anna Nikolskaya-Ekseli (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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No notability. No content beside the lede. 3 references, one of them is her book's listing on a shopping website, the other is a review of her book. Openlydialectic (talk) 21:54, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. There are some refs in the article but nothing that indicates notability (I translated them). Her own personal website appears to be 404. Her Russian language wiki is the same as this one. Looks like an advert. Szzuk (talk) 20:53, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per others. Morgan Ginsberg (talk) 23:59, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 13:00, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tacoma Radar[edit]

Tacoma Radar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:BAND. No reliable independent sources found. Current references are a link to the band's Last.fm page, and four reviews of their album, three of which are definitely blogs, and one which may be a legitimate source, but there appears to be no archive of the DOA page to confirm this. It's possible there may be reviews of the album in NME or Q from 2004, but given that any reviews from these publications will not be available online to be able to check, there will be no promotional interviews with the band as they had already split up by the time the album came out, and their entire recorded output was just two singles and one album, further sources seem unlikely to turn up, unless anyone has a subscription to access US newspapers from 2004 and check their music reviews. Richard3120 (talk) 21:38, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. I opened the refs which confirmed their existence but not notability, i read on lastfm a quote that took my interest so i went to youtube to listen to them, found their best song, was hopeful despite it having just 1000 views - and it hurt my ears. Szzuk (talk) 21:31, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. —SpacemanSpiff 01:25, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Serah Singh[edit]

Serah Singh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I think this hould be Deleted becasue this actor only has one acting role 4 years ago; not even listed in IMDb for the film (though other sites support her participation), therefore not assumed it to be a lead. WP:TOOSOON. Only one WP:Deadlink as a reference. So said The Great Wiki Lord. (talk) 18:07, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete not enough roles to be notable as an actress.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:02, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete One role that resulted in a handful of media mentions in 2014, classic case of WP:TOOSOON.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:39, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) —JJB^ers 16:21, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

History of Hartford, Connecticut[edit]

History of Hartford, Connecticut (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This page is supposed to be a split out from the main article, but the History section on the main article is has more info making this page redundant. —JJB^ers 17:17, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment, the main article, Hartford, Connecticut is presently around 10,500 words, the high end of readability so having its history split off seems like a good idea, looks like a case of moving text not deletion. Coolabahapple (talk) 23:00, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. I agree with Coolabahapple. Most of the information in the main should be removed in favor of this article. Markvs88 (talk) 02:17, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and edit both articles to conform with WP:SUMMARY in keeping with the above comments. 24.151.50.175 (talk) 16:14, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. I wonder if this could be expanded into History of Hartford County, Connecticut, to make it more notable. That would be outside of AfD, however. Redditaddict69 ^{(talk) (contribs)} 01:26, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Editing is required. Even if someone actually taking the time to edit in this area decided to cover the topic entirely in the Hartford article instead, it would not be appropriate to delete this, but rather it would then be redirected. --Doncram (talk) 12:47, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Splitting the main article sounds like a good idea from me, so I'm going to change to Keep. (Not sure if I can do that since I'm the nom, so I'll just make this.) —JJB^ers 16:24, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

User:JJBers Public, if you're the nominator and want to withdraw and there are no opposing votes, as here, you can just go ahead and close the AFD early, and that would be better rather than continuing to demand that more editors read and consider this AFD. Instructions are probably at wp:AFD. Someone else probably could close it early, too. This is ready to be closed. --Doncram (talk) 00:30, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. It's entirely reasonable to have aarticles on the history of significant cities.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:16, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 13:02, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

List of national teams with no AFC Asian Cup appearances[edit]

List of national teams with no AFC Asian Cup appearances (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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There is no reason as to why the page should exist. It is not even notable in regards of the tournament itself. This page fails WP:NOTABILITY. Furthermore, it is pretty obvious which teams did not qualify by looking at the participating nations chart. In addition, if such an article were to exist, it would also have to include teams that are not even part of AFC such as Germany or Uruguay. Ilovereo222 (talk) 16:32, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I think it sets a bad precedence to create articles that group together things that HAVE NOT been achieved. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:01, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Pointless article, very unwiki and doesn't serve anything but to annoy. Govvy (talk) 17:08, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • So WP:ITSUSELESS and WP:IDONTLIKEIT, neither of which are valid arguments. Smartyllama (talk) 14:32, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - entirely unnecessary article. 21.colinthompson (talk) 19:24, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Needless trivia. Ajf773 (talk) 19:58, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• delete WP:NOTSTATS Hhkohh (talk) 02:51, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge table then delete per below and WP:NOTSTATS Hhkohh (talk) 16:26, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • Is a merge then delete allowed under CCL? I thought we had to preserve the edit history of the merged content. Smartyllama (talk) 16:28, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • Redirect is unnecessary and just histmerge to National team appearances in the AFC Asian Cup if that result is redirect or delete Hhkohh (talk) 16:33, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        • Fair enough. I'm assuming you mean if that result is redirect or keep. If it's deleted, we obviously can't merge it there, but could still merge it to the records and statistics article. Though I believe we'd have to do that in the case the other AfD is closed as redirect too, since that's where the content ultimately would be. But I'll let the closing admin sort that out if that's where consensus goes. Smartyllama (talk) 16:39, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yeah Hhkohh (talk) 16:45, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. Whatever fate befalls this article, the same should probably also happen to List of national teams with no UEFA European Championship appearances and List of national teams with no FIFA World Cup appearances. Lowercaserho (talk) 11:38, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Lowercaserho: posted to AfD Hhkohh (talk) 14:36, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge with National team appearances in the AFC Asian Cup or AFC Asian Cup records and statistics per WP:ATD. It wouldn't be immediately obvious by looking at the table over there which teams haven't made it, since that would require the reader to have memorized a list of all AFC members. Nonetheless, this doesn't need its own article, it can be covered there just fine. The idea that the table would have to include non-AFC members is ridiculous. Smartyllama (talk) 16:08, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Yeah, but still, we wouldn't need to know which teams did not make the AFC Asian Cup. This is because teams that didn't make it don't really have anything to do with the cup (except for the qualification process, which probably isn't notable enough). It's not like we include a list of people who have qualified for the cup but didn't score a goal. I still think we should delete the page, or at least add it to the qualification process page as a list of teams that have not made it out of the qualification process. Also, how would the idea that the table would need to include non-AFC members be ridiculous? The page never specified that the teams had to be part of AFC. Ilovereo222 (talk) 18:27, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Should we include basketball teams too? Because those have never made the AFC Asian Cup. What about Manchester United? They've never made it either. But it should be obvious to any halfway intelligent reader that basketball teams, or club teams, or non-AFC teams, have not qualified for a soccer tournament for AFC national teams. And if you really think it isn't, go ahead and specify it. That's a content issue, not a deletion issue. And the threshold for inclusion in an article is a lower bar than the threshold for having its own article. WP:ITSUSEFUL can be an argument for including content within an article, since after all the purpose of an encyclopedia is to serve its readers. The subject as a whole needs to pass the threshold for notability, but not every single aspect of an article individually. Hence, merge it to another article where it's relevant rather than make it a standalone topic. And That being said, how is "add[ing] it to the qualification process page" any different from merging? Smartyllama (talk) 18:35, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• I get what you're saying. We could easily copy and paste the content on this page to the qualification process page. But still though, it's not like the information on this page is referenced to any reliable sources to any extent. Ilovereo222 (talk) 18:45, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Which is basically what merging is. Of course, under CCL, we'd need to either do a redirect or a histmerge to ensure everything is properly attributed. And I'm sure we can easily find reliable sources about who appeared when. After all, that's sourced in the individual tournament articles, it would be fairly easy to copy the citation links. Now, such sources probably don't get this article past GNG, which is why we merge rather than keep, but they should at least pass WP:RS and WP:V. Smartyllama (talk) 18:51, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• So I have merged the information, the only thing that's needed now are the sources. Ilovereo222 (talk) 18:54, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Not that simple. We'd need either a redirect or a histmerge to properly attribute the history per WP:MERGE and the CCL. There may not be consensus for the former at the moment, and the latter requires an admin. On a related note, would you reconsider your "do not merge" comment on the UEFA AfD given they're largely identical (and if anything UEFA receives more coverage)? Smartyllama (talk) 18:58, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Clearly if we were to merge we would need a redirect to the new page, since this page has been around for a while. Ilovereo222 (talk) 19:03, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I am against any merge. Govvy (talk) 19:18, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Ridiculous cross-section of items for a list. Also against a merge. Sergecross73 msg me 22:55, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment It's worth noting that All-time Olympic Games medal table includes a list of countries which have never won a medal, and there are similar examples on other pages, so a merge would not be without precedent. Smartyllama (talk) 14:30, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• But that’s meaningless unless it was kept in there as a result of some consensus from a policy-based discussion. Otherwise, youre just pointing at another mistake to justify this mistake, which isn’t valid. Sergecross73 msg me 16:12, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Not a useful list. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:51, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge (or just keep outright) to National team appearances in the AFC Asian Cup. Absolutely no reason to delete this information as it's a valid list per WP:LISTN, presented in chart format. Some delete votes appear to be WP:IDONTLIKEIT. SportingFlyer talk 03:16, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• It's already merged. But I don't think it passes WP:LISTN or WP:STATS. Pretty much you're implying that every list, sourced or not, passes WP:LISTN, when in fact that is not the case. Ilovereo222 (talk) 12:38, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm implying nothing of the sort. Does this come down to the lack of inline sources? [14] is independent and secondary and confirms the valid list inclusion criteria. SportingFlyer talk 13:07, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Fair enough. So I somewhat support the merge. However, if the majority of the people here vote that it should be deleted, then that should be the case. Ilovereo222 (talk) 17:02, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• WP:NOTVOTE. It's also not obvious from the chart presented during the nomination which teams have never qualified but have attempted to. I've clarified the article so it wouldn't "include teams like Uruguay" and added a source. SportingFlyer talk 00:05, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - non-notable and not needed. GiantSnowman 15:34, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment this is already covered in another article on AFC Cup Qualification, so I'm fine with a procedural delete. SportingFlyer talk 10:44, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - not really notable (teams are notable for what they do accomplish, not what they do not) although unlike other delete !votes I would not be against a merge to an appropriate article. Inter&anthro (talk) 01:16, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 00:18, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Immigration and crime in Germany[edit]

Immigration and crime in Germany (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I have tried very hard to bring this article into line with NPOV but I see how that it is a hopeless struggle. As long as the article is present, certain editors will use it as an opportunity to peddle their view that crime in Germany is caused by immigration. Any historical facts that I've tried to introduce have been removed in favour of a long list of crimes committed by immigrants in recent years. As has been pointed out in the discussion at Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard#Immigration_and_crime_in_Germany, there is no real need for this additional article rather than just a subsection of Immigration to Germany or Crime in Germany. The very linking of the two in the article's title is synthesis, with the clear implication that there is a direct connection between immigration and crime. It has also been suggested that the topic is, in itself not notable because "the article ... used to establish notability of the topic, the Federal Situation Report on Crime in the Context of Immigration for years 2015 and 2016, is specifically about the immigration in 2015 and 2016, when the government allowed one million immigrants to arrive, not about earlier waves of immigration such as Turkish guest workers". I'm afraid I can see no way of avoiding this turning into another POV disaster except by deleting it so that we can at least keep all the questionable material in one place. Deb (talk) 15:52, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Your efforts are in vain because you have tried to add material that is not about immigrants in Germany. Nor do I see any editors peddling "their view that crime in Germany is caused by immigration" (and this is a PA, and I ask you to strike it). I will add you have already managed to poison this AFD.Slatersteven (talk) 16:00, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment The German Federal Agency for Civic Education has a page named Ausländerkriminalität. The German name of this institution is Bundeszentrale für politische Bildung (BpB). The BpB page lists a number of further sources from the 1990s 2000s and 2010s and therefore the topic of this article lives up to WP:SIGCOV. While the article does have POV problems they are fixable. AadaamS (talk) 19:53, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also this 1991 report from Munich University supports the long-term notability of the topic. AadaamS (talk) 08:02, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Retain. There are newspaper reports that can be used. It's a Notable subject. https://www.newspapers.com/image/193366967/?terms=immigrants%2Bcrime%2Bgermany BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 22:31, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Controversial article I guess. But I see plenty of good sources. I can not really see a reason for deletion. More so a clean-up or possibly re-write certain sections. WP:GNG.BabbaQ (talk) 22:33, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. This a legitimate subject simply because it was discussed in a lot of RS. If the research concluded there is no connection between Immigration and crime in Germany, this should be stated on the page. Basically, whatever sources about it tell. My very best wishes (talk) 00:09, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Article on a significant topic that is central to the contemporary German political and media conversation, article is well supported by WP:RS and has had dozens of editors over the years. Nomination is WP:FORUMSHOPPING by an editor whose arguments were rejected on article's talk page.E.M.Gregory (talk) 06:01, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Clearly notable topic with ongoing coverage of various aspects. In as much as there is a POV issue - deletion is not cleanup. Icewhiz (talk) 07:53, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - the paragraph about Nazi period spreads Nazi propaganda.

That paragraph was about German interwar racism, not about immigrants, so I removed it.E.M.Gregory (talk) 09:46, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about my English, but I mean Forced labour under German rule. The crimes included consensual sex with German women (hanging), no bending toward German people, any protests caused by bad conditions. Xx236 (talk) 10:08, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• I concur and have deleted this material which is about forced labour, not about immigrants, see my comments at article's talk page.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:23, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Crime in Germany describes also criminality of immigrants. The two pages should be integrated.Xx236 (talk) 08:07, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Crime in Germany is an article in need of improvement, not least because it fails to even address the most salient aspect of the topic, which is that Germany has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Nevertheless, it it should serve as an overall summary of the topic, not least because with almost 300 articles in Category:Crime in Germany we can hardly redirect everything form everything from Human trafficking in Germany, Rape in Germany, and Corruption in Germany to Crime in Germany, which is the logic of your proposal. What might make sense would be to redirect some of the material on organized crime in immigrant groups ("Russian mafia," "Albanian mafia," and so forth,) which feels like WP:UNDUE overemphasis on the page Crime in Germany to this page on "Immigration and crime in Germany." Caveat: sourcing for some of these organized crime groups looks pretty thin, and page Crime in Germany has not received much editorial attention, and little improvement in sourcing in the years it has existed.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:13, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - per RS. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 10:50, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per above. Apply for a lock and do God's work. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 12:08, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Snow Keep already - An excellent, well-sourced article with very solid WP:RS. Can it be improved? Sure, what Wikipedia article can't? XavierItzm (talk) 11:46, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 00:17, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Guild (franchise)[edit]

The Guild (franchise) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Two entries in the series. Does not need an overarching main article. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 14:22, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• @Soetermans: Do you want to delete article or talk page? If just a talk page not an article, please go to WP:MFD, not here. Hhkohh (talk) 14:56, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Stupid mobile editing :-/ @Hhkohh:, are you able to fix my mistake perhaps? Or do I need to resubmit my AfD? soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 17:42, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Soetermans: I fixed it. Regards SoWhy 17:56, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - I agree that there is no need for a "franchise" page, and there is no information contained in this page that is not included in either of the two game-specific articles. Not to mention, this article has no references to indicate that the franchise itself is noteworthy apart from the individual games. Jmertel23 (talk) 17:50, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom. A "series" of two articles does not need an umbrella page. --woodensuperman 08:05, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom. Videogameplayer99 (talk) 22:38, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Merging was supported but no target was suggested, so it's non-actionable at an AfD, but can be discussed on the talk page afterwards. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:20, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pied-à-terre[edit]

Pied-à-terre (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Perhaps the classic example of a dictionary definition masquerading as an article. EEng 13:30, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

<added later> I guess it wasn't obvious that I don't see GNG-qualifying sources anywhere. To repeat the analogy I give in the discussion below, if there were news articles discussing how households with more than one dog can be a neighborhood nuisance, and the city thinks about enacting a special tax on anything beyond one dog per home, that doesn't mean we should have an article called "Second dog", even if there's a catchy name for second dogs like "Doggie deux". EEng 12:28, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 22:08, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep Per WP:DICDEF: "Each article in an encyclopedia is about a person, a people, a concept, a place, an event, a thing etc., whereas a dictionary entry is primarily about a word, an idiom, or a term and its meanings, usage and history." The pied-à-terre article is a concept, and the article can be expanded with further examples, especially with sources from the corresponding Dutch article. SportingFlyer talk 23:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Uh huh. The Dutch Wikipedia entry reads in its entirety (in automated translation):

A pied-à-terre (French for foot to the ground ) is a second home, usually located in a different city and usually smaller than the primary residence in the municipality where one is registered. A residence where one occasionally stays, or a few days a week, because of work while living elsewhere.

In the Paris property market, mini-apartments, sometimes less than 8 m², are marketed as pied-à-terre for people living in the province and working or studying in Paris during the week.

In Amsterdam, a home must be above a certain rental value that is designated as pied-à-terre. If an owner of a pied-à-terre allows his / her child to occupy the house, the child must register with the municipality. [1]

Apart from students, politicians also use a pied-à-terre. Many ministers and MPs have a pied-à-terre in The Hague while they remain registered in their own municipality. [2] Pied-à-terre also occurs in the world of entertainment, for example with television personalities who have a pied-à-terre in Amsterdam while living elsewhere. [3] [4]

In 2014, the former home of King Willem Alexander , the Noordeinde 66 building in The Hague, was adapted to serve as a pied-à-terre for Princess Beatrix. [5] She lives at the Drakensteyn estate in the municipality of Baarn. [6]

Source

Eerenbeemt, Marc van den A staccato life in the city : De Volkskrant 25 August 2010 Consulted 13 July 2015

References

1. Website City of Amsterdam: May I keep a second home (pied à terre) in Amsterdam?

2. Pied-á-terre in The Hague

3. My Amsterdam pied-à-terre

4. Quote 29 March 2015: The new director of Stage Holding buys a pied à terre in Amsterdam

5. Questions and answers about the budget of the King (HI) 2015 of 3 October 2014

6. De Volkskrant 20 June 2014 The renovation of The Hague pied-à-terre Beatrix costs almost a million

Perhaps you could share with us which of these tidbits and sources you foresee being used for this projected expansion here at enwp? Would it be the Amsterdam registration requirement? Princess Beatrix's address? EEng 23:56, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The social and legal uses of the concept in Paris, Amsterdam, New York, et cetera. New York proposed a tax on it [15] and it appears it's not always allowed in New York City as per this source: [16] It's clearly a social concept, an expandable article, and not something that's better off at Wiktionary, which is the only reason you proposed deletion. SportingFlyer talk 00:36, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and copy-edited the article and added references about the social context of pied-à-terres. SportingFlyer talk 00:56, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I wish I could say I thought you were kidding, but I fear you're not. EEng 02:05, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm under no obligation to agree with you and really don't appreciate your condescending tone, which adds nothing to the AfD discussion. SportingFlyer talk 03:24, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

For "social context" you added [17] a real estate broker's blog post as a source, and the statement -- unsourced -- that Pied-à-terres can be controversial, especially in cities where affordable housing is an issue. Then you used a primary-source municipal webpage from the city of Amsterdam to conclude that "In Amsterdam, pied-à-terres are regulated", and give your own unintelligible interpretation of what those regulations are; what in the world does it mean for a property to be "not rented out, and ... above a certain rental threshold"? Do you know what a "home withdrawal" is? It's laughable. EEng 04:28, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The first one's called a topic sentence. I've edited both sentences for clarity. There's nothing wrong with the blog post source, especially because other sources show notability. Furthermore, in making this AfD about me and my edits and not about the topic itself, you're being rather uncivil. SportingFlyer talk 05:42, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing wrong with the blog post source -- see WP:NEWSBLOG and WP:BLOG. It's like if some cities had a tax on people who kept more than one dog, and therefore we should have an article on second dogs (perhaps called "Doggie deux"). EEng 11:47, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The blog in this instance is run by StreetEasy, a Zillow-owned real estate/apartment website. While probably not subject to the same editorial content as the New York Times, it is more reliable than something someone wrote on WordPress. Furthermore, it doesn't matter for WP:GNG as other sources show notability, and WP:GNG wasn't argued as a reason for deletion in the first place. SportingFlyer talk 12:08, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Really??? A local real estate agent's blogpost on a Zillow-owned real estate/apartment website is a reliable source? Since apparently I have to make the GNG concern explicit, I've done so back at the top. EEng 12:28, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The blog post was written by a journalist, not a "local real estate agent": [18] Furthermore the New York Times articles (including [19], not in the article yet), Forbes article, and [20] demonstrate the concept passes WP:GNG easily. SportingFlyer talk 12:52, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You're right about the journalist (I must have clicked the wrong link) but the fact remains that Zillow is hardly any kind of reliable source. For the rest, the "second dog" argument still applies. While we here: you really need a secondary source for the Amsterdam statement (and the statement needs to be made intelligible) or it will have to go. EEng 16:49, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is the first time I've seen much less been involved in an edit war with an AfD nominator over a WP:HEY. I have no problem giving due weight to the Zillow blog under the guidelines at WP:QS, and we don't need it to establish notability for purposes of this AfD as plenty of other sources exist. The Amsterdam statement is a secondary source but not an independent source (as I'm sure it restates the local bylaw, which would be the primary source - even confirmed here they have bylaws: [21]), and I did my best to make an accurate, good faith translation, even if the first attempt wasn't the clearest. City and State NY was tagged as "reliable source?" when I have no doubts about their credibility: [22]. I've also updated the sentence about Paris. SportingFlyer talk 22:02, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There's no edit war; I've simply tagged OR and PRIMARY sources, removed statements not found in the sources, and so on. The "Second dog" argument still applies. Just because the "concept" of a second-home-in-town has a catchy French term for it, and that term has been used now and them (as terms will be, now and then) in articles talking about second homes, doesn't mean there's anything constituting an encyclopedia here. It's just an incoherent collection of news factoids cobbled together under the meaningless rubric of "attracted discussion during the 2010s". EEng 05:19, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we disagree about the OR and PRIMARY sourcing, but it doesn't look like any more words here will solve the impasse. This article is the urban companion to our Holiday cottage article, has been covered in major news sources in different languages per WP:GNG, and deserves to be kept. SportingFlyer talk 06:06, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that you've scoured the earth and come up with two municipal regulations, a statement of the obvious fact the "pied-à-terres cause a reduction in the overall housing supply", and the observation that there's three blocks in Manhattan where more than half of apartments are second homes make my argument better than I ever could. This is a collection of disjointed factoids. EEng 14:51, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't "scoured the earth," I've cleaned up the article a bit (it needed it) and added a couple obvious sources. You're making three arguments: it fails WP:DICDEF (it doesn't); it fails WP:GNG (it doesn't); and WP:IDONTLIKEIT (obvious from the fact you're getting into content and not sources - deletion is not cleanup.) It's a valid geographic topic and at worst, the well-sourced content should be merged somewhere, but that's not needed since the proper place is already in this article. SportingFlyer talk 22:25, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well if you're saying there are more sources that aren't in the article, you certainly haven't put your best foot forward (meilleur pied en avant). EEng 23:51, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• I want to merge or move this somewhere more general, but I'm not sure where.

The term may or may not pass GNG, but in the bigger picture it's relatively new jargon in a particular dialect for a special case of a wider phenomenon, that of non-resident and foreign ownership of real estate for investment purposes. This wider phenomenon, in turn, seems to be a pretty important, widely-discussed, and encyclopedia-worthy issue: New Zealand recently banned it [23], it's an issue in London with Sadiq Khan threatening to do the same [24][25], and there's a bunch of relevant law, enough to write a review about it all the way back in 1978 and a whole book in 2013. We don't seem to have this content anywhere on WP at the moment; vacation property might conceivably be stretched to include it, but that redirects to the manifestly unsuitable holiday cottage.

Overall, I think the best solution would be a move to Non-resident ownership of real estate, accompanied by an expansion to include the material on other things that fit in this category (e.g. foreign investment in agricultural land) that seem to be regularly discussed alongside "pied-à-terre"-related material in the highest-quality sources. FourViolas (talk) 00:37, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sure enough, here comes FourViolas with his peacemaking and nonviolence and compromise and respecting all creatures great and small and so on. What kind a world would this be if everyone was like this? EEng 01:17, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@FourViolas: I generally support this - I don't really mind where this sits as long as it's kept. The only problem I have is the definition of non-resident and foreign ownership of real estate for investment purposes is much broader than the definition of a pied-à-terre, which is a particular definition of a type of second home (which this journal article discusses: [26]). SportingFlyer talk 00:49, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you're right, my category is more than a slight generalization. I considered second home as a merge target, but that's currently a redirect to pied-à-terre, holiday cottage, and an album of dubious notability. Maybe a better alternative would be to gather together information on second residences urban, rural, and in-between in a single article (holiday cottage already has lots of material not really relevant to cottages meant for holidaying), and include legal aspects in a section there or in a new and more general article. FourViolas (talk) 00:56, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is a ripe area for cleanup (but not deletion) - holiday cottage is a very British term, for instance, and was a move proposal without any input back in 2013. As an aside, I cleaned up the Second home disambiguation page, and added a link there to Dacha. SportingFlyer talk 01:09, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep or merge. I came here from a note at EEng's talk page. It seems to me that there is an underlying architectural concept here, so it should be possible to revise the content so that it is about the concept, its history, and commentary about it, instead of about the definition of the word. A superficial look at the Google Books and Google Scholar links above seems to indicate that there has been a lot of commentary about the idea. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:36, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep or Merge in Canada we have the concept of a second home, which may or may not be a vacation home or "cottage". This is slightly different. It lines up with the "single occupant unit" micro condos being built in the expensive Vancouver market. There is a topic here but it needs expansion. Legacypac (talk) 03:19, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Opinion is divided, but the "keep" arguments are notably weaker, arguing only that the organization or people associated with it are "notorious". That may be so, but our guidelines such as WP:GNG require reliable sources to establish any such notoriety, and the "keep" side doesn't provide them. I will create a redirect to Donald Sanborn#Most Holy Trinity Seminary, as proposed at the end, in my individual capacity as an editor. I don't see much that is sourced and could be merged. Sandstein 10:26, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Most Holy Trinity Seminary[edit]

Most Holy Trinity Seminary (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I am dubious about the notability of this institution. Lack of high quality sources. (Note, that there are other unrelated institutions with a similar name, e.g. the Missionary Servants of the Most Holy Trinity's Seminary in Monroe, Virginia; so, when searching for references, you have to be careful that they are about this institution and not one of those others.) SJK (talk) 14:41, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. SJK (talk) 14:44, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. IntoThinAir (formerly Everymorning) talk 14:50, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep -- I also have my doubts about notability, but it does exist and is training clergy for a Catholic splinter group, one that rejects Vatican II. I could see no indication of the number of students, only that there are five staff, who (I suspect) have other jobs too. If kept, rename to Most Holy Trinity Seminary, Brooksville, Florida or such like to disambiguate from the other one. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:49, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• @Peterkingiron: "but it does exist" – isn't that simply WP:ITEXISTS? As far as I can tell, this is a tiny institution run by a tiny sect of ultra-traditionalist Roman Catholics which have split away from the mainstream Roman Catholic church. (There are other, far more larger and notable splinter sects than this particular one, such as SSPX and SSPV – this particular one doesn't even seem to have a name as such, but its leaders used to belong to SSPV and then had some falling out with them and left.) I can't find any discussions of this seminary in reliable sources. (At least one of their staff – Anthony Cekada – is arguably notable, since some of his writings have been influential among Catholic traditionalists, but the reliable sources which discuss that do so without discussing this institution.) All the refs in the article are to non-reliable and non-independent sources. If reliable sources haven't paid any attention to this institution/group, then it doesn't meet the notability requirements for an article. SJK (talk) 21:13, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• I think that sometimes it is useful to have articles on such small institutions so that WP can show how insignificant they are. An alternative might be to merge and redirect to the article on this particular Catholic splinter denomination. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:16, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• WP:GNG requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject"; your proposal seems to be that an institution which is so obscure that reliable sources entirely ignore it deserves an article so people can learn how insignificant it really is, but that proposal seems to be against the spirit (and letter) of GNG rather than in conformance with it. (I might decide to open a "seminary" in my garage – even if I create a website for it, does it deserve a Wikipedia article just to demonstrate how insignificant the seminary in my garage is?). An article with no high quality references – should the reader infer the topic is so marginal that high quality references don't exist for it, or that high quality references exist but no Wikipedia editor has yet found them? Since the reader can't tell which of the two is the case (without researching the topic themselves), such an article can't really serve your proposed purpose of demonstrating the insignificance of its subject. SJK (talk) 21:06, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The rector, Donald Sanborn, and Father Anthony Cekada, are notorious. 67.79.171.130 (talk) 19:43, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  Per WP:NOTINHERIT, even if its rector and one of its professors are notable, that doesn't automatically make the institution notable. Furthermore, it isn't demonstrated that either Sanborn or Cekada are themselves notable. Labelling them as "notorious" doesn't suffice for notability – notorious to whom? I for one had never heard of Sanborn until I stumbled upon his article on Wikipedia, although I had heard of Cekada before. (But, the vast majority of people, who know nothing about traditional Catholicism, would never have heard of Cekada either.) Notability needs to be demonstrated by reliable sources. I found some reliable sources for Cekada, which maybe is enough for notability, but it is borderline. But I simply can't find anything substantial on Sanborn, which makes me think he isn't notable and his article should be deleted. So, in fact, just now, I nominated his article for deletion as well – Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Donald Sanborn. SJK (talk) 21:38, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Like I said somewhere else, they are definitely notorious in the traditionalist Catholic movement, they worked with Mons. Marcel Lefebvre, and were part of the nine American priests who were expelled from the SSPX, who would come to form the Society of Saint Pius V.DizzinessOfFreedom (talk) 23:38, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  @DizzinessOfFreedom: In order to demonstrate "notoriety", we need references to reliable independent secondary sources. No matter how notorious the individuals who run this institution may be in some circles, if the institution is not discussed extensively by multiple reliable independent secondary sources, it is not notable by Wikipedia's standards. Please see WP:ORGSIG. SJK (talk) 08:12, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The seminary is not terribly notable, but enough for WP to take note of it. Far many more institutions with much less credit have a larger presence here. The fact that some of its members and staff have gained recognition (or notoriety) should be considered since their reputations are linked to the seminary's movement. Den... (talk) 19:33, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• @DGG, Kilopylae, Power~enwiki, Ad Orientem, and TonyBallioni: you all contributed to the discussion at related AFD Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Donald_Sanborn (this is the seminary–most likely very small–of which Sanborn is the leader), but have not commented here yet. Maybe you might have something to contribute here? SJK (talk) 07:12, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep. To avoid the possibility of unconscious bias, I have always supported the broadest possible interpretation of the notability standards for religious organizations. Ny only problem is that there seems no information about whether it is large enough to actually be considered established; I am judging it has a real existence on the basis of the photographs on their site in the absence of numerical data, but I do not feel perfectly secure about it. DGG ( talk ) 07:55, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep My view is like DGG I support a broad interpretation for religious organizations and I will also echo what another voter said above in that this seminary is notable due to the nature of it. I found a few sources here and there which combined with the other stuff make this a keep.JC7V-constructive zone 15:20, 15 October 2018 (UTC) [reply]

I have a counter proposal, what if we merged info from this article into the article on Anthony Cekada??? He is associated with the seminary and it might be a decent compromise? JC7V-constructive zone 18:38, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete After going over others comments I believe it should be deleted. I tried to find references from independent sources for this article and I could only find 2 references from reliable sources (Times and Hernando Sun) which are barely passing mentions and show it fails WP:GNG and similar categories. The merge thing I guess wouldn't work either. So I delete is probably the right move. JC7V-constructive zone 19:13, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just stating that I would also be open to the merge and redirect proposal that was put forth by EM Gregory. I already suggested a merge before but his/her suggestion is better than the merge suggestion i put forth. I still believe it's a delete but his/her idea seems a good ATD. JC7V-talk 17:08, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that there is scant reliable source coverage for either article subject. I am not sure if we have enough RS coverage to source a three sentence stub on both of them together. The only way either of these can be kept is if we just chuck GNG. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:14, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Subject fails WP:NORG (see also WP:NSCHOOL). Insufficient (virtually none) coverage from reliable secondary sources. Cited sources are affiliated and/or fail WP:RS. As written the article grossly fails WP:NPOV and is a blatant WP:COATRACK WP:ADVERT for the beliefs of a fringe schismatic sect. It also falsely claims that they are Roman Catholics. If this is kept w/o improvement in sourcing I will likely stub it to a single sentence. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:32, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Falsely claims that they are Roman Catholics? You surely have no idea what you are talking about. For one to be a Catholic one must hold what the Church has always taught, to believe in what it defined as "De Fide". Now Bergoglio is denying what the Church had defined as "De Fide", your personal opinion does not count for anything.67.79.171.130 (talk) 18:43, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Per Ad Orientem. Essentially no coverage from reliable sources (the only independent mention I've seen so far is a glancing mention in relation to a local planning board meeting), which is not surprising for such a tiny institution (their own webpage only lists 5 professors). Per WP:ORGSIG, schools have no inherent notability, and this particular one doesn't meet any standard of notability. PohranicniStraze (talk) 18:31, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep' Important article for Traditionalist Catholicism. Bishop Sanborn and Fr. Anthony Cekada were important members of the Society of Saint Pius X,^[1], and leading members of the Society of Saint Pius V.^[2][3][4][5] Also, Fr. Cekada is a notorious author.^[6][7][8] Now the seminary is notable for the nature of it. I do not see how can this article be considered unneutral since it is only displaying the views of the seminary and does not advocate in any way for the views proposed. DizzinessOfFreedom (talk) 19:30, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. If the attempt to delete this article is not an extension of the Church’s internal conflicts, could the opposing camp be peeking into the subject through an orifice? It seems to me that they seek to validate their anti position with a strict reading of the guidelines at the expense of the broader view of the seminary’s significance. When deleting an article with a current topic, I check for these points: 1) Is it self-promotion or propaganda? 2) Is it irrelevant to the broader issue (i.e., Latin Catholic Church)? 3) Is it ignored in relevant publications? Here is why I think this article passes the test.

Given the language, content and tone we could safely set aside self-promotion, but is it really relevant to the current religious life? Yes, it is relevant because it represents one of the opposing ultra conservative minorities within the largest Christian denomination (i.e., Sedevacantists) at a time when its prevailing liberal ideology is taking a beating from all sides. Even when the institutional powers seek to silent marginal voices, extremes always define each other. To understand the Church’s current ills, for example, we need to understand Vatican II and those fiercely opposing it—even if they seem as if we should live in the past.

But what about coverage? Let’s first define the appropriate outlets for a marginalized and almost dirt-poor Catholic seminary. They are certainly NOT in the mainstream media, which generate our favourite sources of publication. The NYTimes, for example, will pass them over even when its faculty preaches blistering anti-establishment sermons. The matter is different, however, if any is accused of pedophilia. So, as with peripheral movements in all major religions, we need to look at fringe channels of communication: narrowly specialized presses, scholarly journals with limited circulation, self-published books and social networks, the same that have allowed minority groups in general to survive.

In addition to what has already been provided above:

In books from religious presses: here and here. In religious scholarly publications: here, here, here, and here. In self-published books: here and here. In social media: here, here, here, and many more.

There are many more references from WP:RS to some of the faculty in the seminary (like here, here and here). An institution becomes closely linked to its faculty, in both, academia and religious worlds.

Size is important too. When I advocate to keep this article, I am not suggesting we should expand it. Its present small size matches its significance. Den... (talk) 01:43, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I added some mainstream coverage of this seminary to Donald Sanborn, that can be used to expand this page. It's real, and has attracted press coverage for decades, in original location and following the move to Florida. Note that according to Florida nesspapers it is actually located in Spring Lake, Florida, an unincorporated area near the incorporated town of Brooksville, Florida. According to one story I added to the Sanborn article, the Seminary bought and renovated a large Spanish Colonial Revival architecture house, with grounds. As s fit for a schismatic Chrurh that wants to turn the clock back to 1492.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:54, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Here, for those who can access Proquest, is a 1984 Hartford Courant article Court Ruling Sought In Seminary Dispute; ANDREW WALSH Courant Staff Writer. The Hartford Courant (1923-1992); Hartford, Conn. [Hartford, Conn23 May 1984: B2a.], with the backstory. The Lefabvre seminary (Society of St. Pius X that Cekada and Sanborn ran as the St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary in Armada, Michigan had moved to Ridgefield, Connecticut. (To a Tudor architecture mansion (reverencing the wonderful reign of Bloody Mary, no doubt.) Cekada and Sanborn were breaking with Lefabvre and claiming the right to take the seminary with them. I don't know how the lawsuit turned out, but Sanborn then created this seminary in Florida.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:17, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  @E.M.Gregory: It ended with a settlement in which each side kept some of the properties. The SSPX got to keep the seminary in Connecticut. Here is Cekada's first-hand account. Of course, that is biased in favour of his side, a self-published source, etc., so I doubt whether it could actually be used here. But for the bare facts of the outcome of the case, I am confident it is accurate. SJK (talk) 19:59, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Selective MERGE and Redirect to Donald Sanborn. Like Nom and other editors above, I cannot find enough to justify a stand-alone article. I did an upgrade of Donald Sanborn page. With access to archives, sourcing his career is easy, much more exists than I have added, he really was a ting in the 70s and 80s, when the Lefabvre schism was a thing. But when he became a schismatic seceding from a schism - well, he stopped drawing attention. And this Seminary has drawn very little. Merge and redirect to Donald Sanborn. E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:31, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  @E.M.Gregory: Thank you for your good work on finding sources for the Sanborn article. Given there are at least a few local media mentions of his seminary, I think that is sufficient for at least some mention in his article. So I agree with your proposal to merge/redirect this article to that one. SJK (talk) 19:53, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• note that above -talk writes: "stating that I would also be open to the merge and redirect proposal that was put forth by EM Gregory" [27].E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:51, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:02, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Zensar Technologies[edit]

Zensar Technologies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Not Notable. No Reliable sources. Links are bad or lead to nonfunctioning sites held by this company. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 06:36, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, but remove all promotional puffery and uncited or self-cited info. . .Mean as custard (talk) 07:45, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep It's easy to find more sources about this, for example Forbes. Andrew D. (talk) 08:35, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - for reasons those voting keep above. Zensar gave me over 1,000,000 google hits; and while a lot of the early ones are Press release, Primary, Jobs etc, others are better. So yet again I question was WP:BEFORE dilligent? Templating the uncited content, some of which seems at a glance to be fairly audacious, followed by removal of uncited or dubious content is surely a less disruptive way to go.Djm-leighpark (talk) 09:49, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep, cleanup and remove the advert-like tone of the article. Per other votes and the AfD is not cleanup essay. Regards, SshibumXZ (talk · contribs). 07:31, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep.It has a lot of valid sources available and has been published in news articles and is evident in ForbesVinodbasker (talk) 16:30, 4 October 2018 (UTC)*[reply]
• Delete - Per BeenAroundAwhile, first ref is company annual report and the other ten are acquisition announcements. David notMD (talk) 20:23, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep I knew nothing about Zensar. I was interested to read that they acquired Cynosure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.204.172.14 (talk) 23:53, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep and cleanup / remove promo tone per Mean as custard and SshibumXZ. Sakaimover (talk) 15:17, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect (Struck - see below) to RPG Group. The sources (both here and elsewhere) are a mix of WP:ROUTINE, (some rephrased) press releases or failures to satisfy Sig Cov or independent. Since Sandstein relisted, it clearly has been noted that the Keep statements are not !votes. Please find and LINK some suitable sources here if you want to demonstrate notability, as WP:NCORP is currently not met. Nosebagbear (talk) 21:54, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Nosebagbear: please explain to everyone who has participated in this discussion and voted, how their clear votes are “not votes”? Thank you. Sakaimover (talk) 23:23, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Sakaimover: - to give three examples, Mean As Custard's "Keep, but remove all promotional puffery and uncited or self-cited info" - gives no response to nomination. 50.204's "Keep I knew nothing about Zensar. I was interested to read that they acquired Cynosure" - doesn't give any response or justification either way. Your own "and cleanup / remove promo tone per Mean as custard and SshibumXZ" - neither your point nor theirs respond to the nomination accurately. A lack of reliable sourcing (whether here or elsewhere) means notability is not satisfied. Thus, attempting to demonstrate it is, is key to the AfD. Nosebagbear (talk) 17:31, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment How the nom. can even do a WP:BEFORE and state categotically NO (not one) RS when the number of google hits exceed 1,000,000 seems incredulous. That said and incredibly high percent are press release. Some that might count are : 1 2 3 4. But overall a company of Zensar's size reasonably earn's an article. i have confidence the nom is the end disruptive.Djm-leighpark (talk) 23:36, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Number of google hits is a terrible way of assessing whether there is suitable sourcing. And WP:BEFORE doesn't require checking every piece of information in the world (no unearthing library of Alexandria etc), but a reasonably detailed consideration. This isn't a response to the sources (I'll check them tomorrow morning), but I felt the underlying statement still needed to be responded to first. Nosebagbear (talk) 17:31, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And it can be a very good indicator that one has failed to locate sources that are likely to be there. The nom. in this case should have seen something like google hits 1,030,000; google books 1,380; news 8,700 and 296 scholar ... capitalisation and annual revenue over USD 480 million ...quoted on BSE ... to which the nom presents us with Not Notable. No Reliable sources. Links are bad or lead to nonfunctioning sites held by this company. I am expect his good faith in doing a reasonable analysis to those sources. Now if I was nominating this I really ought to have a have some stocks with a load of schoolchildren ready with buckets of WP:TROUT on standby ... because if even 0.001% of those hits are RS ..... And I need to do a WP:BEFORE appropriate for a company of this size .... not look at the first 100 hits and give up. While most hits do relate to the Zensar entity and not something else, there is an incredibly high proportion of press release and job related clutter. But pragmatically this one is too big to go. See also 5. Relister should have saved disruption and kept NC in my opinion as its the only plausible result and ultimately a waste of effort.Djm-leighpark (talk) 19:35, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I can't talk as to source 4, as I don't have access, sources 1,2,5 didn't seem to provide enough detail on what the company actually does to be relevant Sig Cov. Source 3 looks very interesting indeed - do you have the link to get to the overall details etc so I can see reliable/independent etc? Nosebagbear (talk) 12:49, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• I think some peoples would argue sources 1 and 5 have enough WP:SIGCOV, and the first ref I put in the article today was pretty decent. I first thought source 3 might have been ISBN: 9789351508632 or 6 - one of the Havard case studies ... but its isnt and is 3h - the handle permalink .. if I read it right the researcher seems to be Bhide - Savitribai Phule Pune University in an entity titled Study of change in composition and direction of exports by information technology companies in and around Pune. As for source 4 the Pune COI dudes can dip into their pockets if necessary if I may be so bold as to suggest it! Djm-leighpark (talk) 19:27, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I have already recommended Delete. An article about Zensar may be appropriate, but THIS article, lacks suitable references. All I see is a list of news releases about acquisitions and a list of company divisions. If a company of this size has been written about, that needs to be added or I stand by my recommendation. David notMD (talk) 13:12, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• I have done the necessary of the writings of the company as you wished. Thankyou.Djm-leighpark (talk) 16:44, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep There are sufficient references that meet the criteria for establishing notability including two book references. I've cleaned up the article also. Topic meets GNG and WP:NCORP. HighKing⁺⁺ 14:03, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@HighKing If ISBN: 9789351508632 is one of the books you are referring to it is in many ways non independent as it was co-authored by the then CEO Ganesh Natarajan, a key figure you wiped off the article in your clean up. We appear to be in a non-consensual disruptive content dispute out of the pressures of this AfD which perhaps goes to show how much disruption these AfD which hinge on the tiniest vagarancies on WP:GNG become. The whole process seems like a stupidity! How much effort does it take to do a nomination and how much effort does it take to overcome it. Djm-leighpark (talk) 19:25, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am pleased to report HighKing and myself seem to be working co-operatively and HighKing has improved the early history in what I view as a very satsifactory direction. Thankyou.Djm-leighpark (talk) 21:31, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One point to note is we are now using the alternate isbn for 978-93-5150-862-5 for Start-Up to Global Success: The Zensar Story rather than 9789351508632. Djm-leighpark (talk) 01:11, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Motion to close as keep in light of clear consensus. Sakaimover (talk) 21:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Sakaimover: - AfD discussions are only SNOWed Keep in very limited circumstances, functionally requiring unanimity. Give both a number of non-Keep !votes, and that a number of those who have said Keep didn't actually provide suitable justifications that level if fairly far off. Nosebagbear (talk) 23:12, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes ... its not a valid speedy keep. The article now addresses all issues raised above. By all reasonable measures Zensar is run as an independent member of the RPG group, it was not associated with that group at times in the past, and it may not be associated with that group at a point in the future. Therefore I suggest a redirect/merge to the RPG group is unreasonable at this point.Djm-leighpark (talk) 07:23, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Neutral - I'm still not sure about the state of the sourcing, but with one good source and a couple that I can't make my mind up over, I feel insufficiently confident to cast a clean !vote. Nosebagbear (talk) 16:52, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 13:05, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Chiangmai Dream F.C.[edit]

Chiangmai Dream F.C. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Has not played a single game fails WP:GNG. Subject specific guideline WP:FOOTYN not met. Dom from Paris (talk) 08:49, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment: This appears to be a radio recording from FM97, a major Bangkok-based station, featuring an interview with its head coach, covering the team. Also coverage in Chiang Mai News (a local news site and former newspaper) and ThaiLive.net (a minor football website). --Paul_012 (talk) 22:12, 29 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - no evidence of notability. GiantSnowman 14:03, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Doesn't meet GNG. Interviews and minor coverage in local news is not enough for GNG. NOTE: FOOTYN is NOT a "Subject specific guideline", its a wikiproject football essay. Domdeparis, please clarify this as it is misleading in the extreme to say that it is.— Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)} 16:17, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry you're right I should have said "Project-specific notability guidance" and part of the Category:WikiProject notability advice. --Dom from Paris (talk) 16:19, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Tone 04:57, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Julia Sigova[edit]

Julia Sigova (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I'm not sure how to evaluate this. There seems to be only one recording, and only debuts at major venues. DGG ( talk ) 20:10, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - She is not noted (not yet) and clearly fails WP:MUSICBIO. Besides, an article with only 1 line? Far lower than "usual" Stub requirement. --Jay (talk) 20:36, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Delete the sources provided aren't enough to cover notability. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.47.183.114 (talk) 20:56, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• The article has beed extended and hopefully it now covers issues listed above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by L984a (talk • contribs) 07:53, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - It still did not change the fact that she is not noted, and clearly fails WP:MUSICBIO.--Jay (talk) 11:32, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Article creator comment – Arguments for notability criteria:
  • Item (1) of WP:MUSICBIO is fulfilled by presenting numerous newspaper articles, including major Swedish newspaper.
  • Item (6) of WP:MUSICBIO is fulfilled by presenting that Julia Sigova performed with major classical musicians Håkan Hardenberger, Mats Rondin, Marc Soustrot, Matthew Rowe.
  • Item (7) of WP:MUSICBIO is fulfilled by presenting that Julia Sigova was chosen as the Best Female Artist in Sweden by Fredrika Bremer Association.
  • Performing as soloist on such stages as La Biennale in Venice and St Martin-in-the-Fields arguably should by itself qualify for notability, however I cannot find which item in WP:MUSICBIO covers this.

The minimum requirement for WP:MUSICBIO is one fulfilled item, whereas I see at least three.

— L984a (talk) 21:18, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - no where near passing the notability guidelines for musician and general WP:MUSICBIO and WP:GNG --Jay (talk) 08:42, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Reply - please provide objective and substantial counterarguments for each of the items listed in Arguments for notability criteria - L984a (talk) 08:53, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Article creator comment – Conclusion

Thanks to all the critical input from reviewers I extended the article and presented arguments confirming Julia Sigovas notability. During the following 5 days of review not a single issue was raised regarding the reworked text or the notability arguments. With this I suggest that all issues with the article are resolved and kindly ask you to keep it.

Thank you!

L984a (talk) 20:06, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Per WP:GNG. Per WP:MUSICBIO, good refs, fulfills requirements within guidelines mentioned, article subject notable within her field.BabbaQ (talk) 23:58, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Clearly passes WP:GNG/WP:BASIC per Swedish newspapers. wumbolo ^^^ 21:21, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sourcing hasn't been shown to be available, and the keep opinions rely on a presumption of notability rather than evidence of notability —SpacemanSpiff 02:39, 18 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tinu George[edit]

Tinu George (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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