The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. - Mailer Diablo 02:46, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mundana Quartet

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Prodded with "Not notable, not referenced, not encyclopedic tone." Prod removed by creator with argument "Article improved. Having been elected to represent a country at Expo 2000, is definetely an enyclopedic". There are still no references for the article, the tone is very unencyclopedic, and playing at a single big event doesn't make one notable - does it? Update: this article was also deleted from Polish Wikipedia (see pl:Wikipedia:SDU/Mundana Quartet for Polish AfD); the reason was the same as mine above - participation in a single event does not made them notable._{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 20:18, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So how many big single events do you need to draw a line in the sand to be notable and encyclopedic, Piotrus? And the reason to delete this article in Polish version wasn't the same. I would call that action a bias against diversity. Just look at the votes: 15 : 7 to delete by everybody, but only 1 : 4 by more tolerant administrators. Doesn't ring a bell? And what about if I were to publish an article about "Hypernova" - the first Iranian rock group ever? They ain't even got no single big event yet; they just play at the Lower East Side bar. So how come that the New York Times wrote about them a full page story? What about 1/4 page in wiki by me? Where will you be there when I'll do that? Writing AfDs or what? Or maybe you are more selective? Sorry, pal, I think that's it. Greg park avenue 02:56, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I deleted the abusive comments per WP:BLP. I'm not sure about these girls' notability since I'm not in Poland and don't read Polish, but vandalism/abusive comments should be deleted from all articles and should not be considered part of a reason to delete. --Charlene 20:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Charlene, for polishing my rough English. Besides, I fully agree with your comment. Greg park avenue 02:56, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep If this were a US group, it wouldn't even be up for deletion. This is a well-known quartet that has performed in major venues and has even done a soundtrack. -t h b 20:18, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Well-known? Google test: [1]. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.6.59.121 (talk) 07:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]
  - Google has been sterilized. Using Google it's like trying to catch a French movie on American TV with "Jean Paul Belmondo", "Louis de Funes" or "Alain Delon". Try any European web search engine like let's say German magazine Das Bild and you'll find out, that Mundana is a very well known Polish band throughout Europe, just like "Kwartet Jorgi" or "Taklamakan Trio". greg park avenue 01:18, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Delete we have a guideline for this over at WP:MUSIC by which measure, this fails. When they have better grounds for notability, recreate the article then. Eusebeus 15:37, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- An abstract from WP:MUSIC guidelines: A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, hip hop crew, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria: 1. It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable. This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, and television documentaries. greg park avenue 17:53, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you can elaborate on how that piece of policy pertains to this string quartet I'll think of changing my vote. As it is, I am at a loss as to what you intend to accomplish since that, as it were, was my very point. Eusebeus 23:40, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I inserted some references regarding newspaper articles about Mundana. Gazeta Poznańska is a major national daily; Głos Wielkopolski - a local daily reaching population about size of Quebec population - you can find this article here but it's only an abstract. Just like in New York Times, to read the full text of the archived article, one must become a member and pay for it. Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia, so I cannot use this link on main page. It relates to a big event - International Music Day in 2005 Poland - televised nationwide by Channel II Polish TV at prime time with footings broadcast across Europe and South America. It took place in downtown Poznań - the only city in Poland which partcipate in it for the first time. Mundana Quartet not only participate in it together with many well established ensembles including Poznańskie Słowiki with Stefan Stuligrosz, but also organized it and does it now each year. If not for Mundana this event never would happen. You can check that out with another reference on main page in Gazeta Wyborcza. If this event is not encyclopedic, Live 8, Concert for Bangladesh and Woodstock 69' also should qualify for AfD. greg park avenue 10:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep a bit weak but ... something different from that less tolerant part of EU. Positive news for a change! greg park avenue 20:14, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Mundana, 4 Non Blondes - It's OK! ;) . Budzix form Poznan.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 16:30, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep just because it's in Europe doesn't mean it's less notable than a similar US group. Wikipedia isn't just for United States. Wooyi^{Talk, Editor review} 05:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Four hotties apparently have three newspaper stories, satisfying WP:N and WP:A. Edison 07:02, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - putting up links to Polish newspapers in the English Wiki is not really a way of asserting notability. I mean the articles might be saying they are imposters for all we know. Are there English references?--VS ^talk 10:15, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Playing's devil advocate, I'd like to note that per WP:AGF, WP:RS and WP:V foreign newspapers are reliable. That said, are few newspapers articles enough to make the group notable?--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 15:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In Poland the group is not widely known either. This is probably the reason why it failed an AfD vote on pl.wiki... Jotempe 12:39, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Polish wiki has different AfD procedure, their AfD is indistinguishable from a majority vote, if you go to the link and take a look. In English wiki, we don't count votes for AfD. Wooyi^{Talk, Editor review} 14:19, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it is a vote (not quite majority through), and the article failed by 2:1 (no:yes) votes. It is also true, that the author appears to have a very strong personal interest in promoting the band and its members. During the vote he had to be blocked on pl.wiki for a week because of personal and abusive attacks towards persons who voted against the article. Jotempe 14:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, for someone who didn't contibute to English wiki not even a single edition except creating his own user page and starts the editing career from AfD complains, he doesn't seem very credible to me; it looks more like a personal attack which, by the way, Polish AfD was all about, however, the other way around than stated above. And here we've got a typical sample of that activity. And yes, I have a strong personal interest to promote the only band in Poland which is 100% tolerant, just for want of the others. greg park avenue 15:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually someone as experienced on wiki as you, should have noticed that I do have several edits in the main space (admitted, mostly minor ones). But, most important, I'm not complaining here, I'm explaining the backgroud of article deletion on pl.wiki to people, who don't know Polish. You may notice, that I did not put forth my opinion about the article, just described what happened with it there. BTW: I consider the claim that it is the only band in Poland which is 100% tolerant a gross overstatement. Jotempe 16:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is NOT a forum. Concentrate on article. Nobody in here cares about Polish bias. greg park avenue 16:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There is no significant notability, there are no real references. This just doesn't meet our requirements for inclusion -- hotness doesn't trump WP:V and WP:OR. /Blaxthos 15:22, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Are you at least either a musician or music expert or fan? An abstract from WP:MUSIC guidelines: A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, hip hop crew, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria: 1. It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable. This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, and television documentaries. greg park avenue 16:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mundana Quartet article has been removed from the Polish Wiki.
Gazeta Poznańska is a local daily.Xx236 10:27, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is, but what has that to do with Mundana? Though, while we at Sarc1 I took a freedom to correct German spelling on your user page - instead of "mucken auf" it supposed to be "aufzumucken". greg park avenue 13:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.