The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 14 June 2020 [1].

Stockport County F.C.[edit]

Nominator(s): Wna247 (talk) 17:57, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Stockport County Football Club, and English football team that plays in the National League; the top division of the English non-league football system and the fifth division overall of the English football league system. This article has received both a a peer review and then a Copy Edit by a member of the guild of copy editors. Wna247 (talk) 17:57, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Lee Vilenski

I was very pleased to see that despite not having a tonne of edits you have such a big stake in this article. I'll put some thoughts down below:

@Lee Vilenski: Thanks for these Comments I have made amendments based off your suggestions. Also just to bring you and everyone else who may look at this nominee here is the peer review which may help with clarification of certain parts of the article. In terms of the points above, the two biggest points to me are League pyramid statistics, The "Top 10 managers in the club's history" and Stockport County record. League pyramid statistics have been removed as its sort of covered any way in the prose plus there is an image in the article showing the clubs positions over the years. The "Top 10 managers in the club's history" has been amended to state that the stats only include full time managers and not interim or caretaker managers. If this section is still felt irrelevant then I'm happy to remove it. For the section about the clean sheet record at the bottom of the article, I have added a reference and slightly re-worded. All points regarding references/punctuation have now been fixed. Wna247 (talk) 21:29, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

@Nikkimaria: Thanks for the image review - I have gone through the article and removed File:Stockport-County-1914-15-400px.jpg - this image was no longer on the linked website so source info could not be checked in terms of image File:Cheadle_End,_Edgeley_Park.jpg:- YB stands for Yellowboard (the Stockport County supporters messageboard) not Yearbook but I can understand the confusion. Its not something you would understand if you wasn't a fan of the team. I cant find the original post on the messageboard where the image was from so I have removed it from the article. I have removed and replaced images from users that have had multiple images deleted for ambiguous copyright info. I have also updated the copyright info of the clubs crest. If anything is wrong or missing let me know and I will remove or replace.Wna247 (talk) 01:12, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: Again thanks for this. I have now added the copyright licensing to the images I added earlier today. The Stockport Image Archive website states they have no copyright, therefore I believe its allowed to be freely used. I have also corrected the licensing for the team photograph in this case. The Patrick Norris mage I have removed from the article, I didn't upload this image and the Stockport Image Archive doesn't show who took the photo or anywhere where the image was published so I can't trace that information. I have now removed all the files from the user you mentioned previously. Hopefully the Logo FUR is now completed but again if there is anything missing let me know and I will look for the information. Wna247 (talk) 13:46, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with the tagging for the Stockport Image Archive is it states that the "copyright holder...irrevocably releases all rights to it". That is not the same as just saying the image has no copyright - we need to know specifically why to know whether that applies worldwide (specifically for our purposes in the US). Nikkimaria (talk) 15:39, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from TRM[edit]

Wikicup review

Lead to –1930[edit]

That's the lead and first section briefly reviewed. Plenty to do here so I'll return once we have some progress on that. Just a heads-up, it looks to me that the history section is just too much, especially when there's a forked article already. There's also some problems with the overall balance, with a huuuuge amount on the last few years. But it's probably best to start addressing the easy things before we look at reorganising and trimming down significantly. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:44, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Thanks I have worked through your notes. Most of them being quick fixes. I have rephrased where you have mentioned to do that but again if its sound wrong or a bit too wordy then let me know. Some of the things you have brought up have been discussed in the Peer review For example The linking of Staylbridge - as posted in peer review "Regarding the 1884 match, Records show the match was against Staylbridge. I have added this in but not wikilinked because it is unclear of the Staylbridge. It wasn't Staylbridge Celtic founded in 1909 but it could have been Staylbridge Rovers who joined the Lancashire Combination in 1890 but their founding date is unclear." All the clubs historians known is that it was a team from Staylbridge. In regards to Thomas Evans, He played two seasons for the club (36 league appearances out of 38 games in each season) he also guested three times after the war. I have added this in but happy to remove. During the first world war Stockport played in the Regional War League, Lancashire Section where after a number of matches (26 in the first season and 30 in each season after) there was then a supplementary tournament (the top 6 played each other again home and away in the first season totalling 10 matches. While in subsequent seasons, Stockport played Home and away against Liverpool, Everton and Southport in the supplementary tournament. The other teams in this section would also end up playing the same teams year on year in the supplementary tournaments.) So During the first World War Stockport still played 36 matches per season. This lasted from 1915-16 to 1918-19, with 1919-20 having the football league start up again and run as it did previously. You mentioned there is a forked article on the History of the club, it is very outdated and to be fair that needs a major overhaul. I have now unlinked that history page altogether and will work on it separately. Thanks, Wna247 (talk) 12:48, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: EDIT - I have reworded the section on the first world war to include less about a specific player and more about the football the team played during that time. I have also cut out bits of the details from the more recent history sections, potentially more could go. Wna247 (talk) 05:48, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
1930– to –1999[edit]

— No linked page but was one of two players to score a hat trick in the 13-0 win. Refer to Cas Liber’s GA Review a few years ago in regards to the 13-0 victory they asked for “date and locale for the 13–0 win over Halifax Town (did anyone score more than 3 goals in that match??)” - In this match two players scored 3 or more goals – Joe Hill (3) and Percy Downes (4) Wna247 (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

– English football on television States that “The BBC started its television service in 1936, although it was nearly a year before the very first televised match of football was screened” with the 1938 FA Cup final between Huddersfield Town and Preston North End being the first to be screened. October 1946 saw , the first live televised football match was broadcast by the BBC from Barnet – So from this I don’t think it would have been a live match more of a news report. Looking at BBC#The birth of British broadcasting, 1920 to 1922 – it looks like the BBC were broadcasting in 1922 so the 1933–34 match in question may have been a news report (There is a news report style video of that year’s final on YouTube) Wna247 (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

– After checking several sources on the British Newspaper Archive, Freeman & Harnwell – Stockport County a complete record, and the official club website, it is not known how the fire was started. As mentioned all the records pre-1935 were destroyed, even the clubs historians find it difficult at times to piece certain things together especially from the very early years. Wna247 (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

– Jack Connor is the only Stockport player to score that many goals for the club over any 5 season spell. I know this can be a bit confusing. Happy to discuss it but also happy to remove if deemed unnecessary. Wna247 (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

– should be of scanned newspaper cuttings from the Liverpool Echo about the match in question Wna247 (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

– Frankfurt was the first time Stockport had played a foreign team at home, the tour of Germany was Stockport first ever international tour (and I think first tour altogether but can’t be sure on that) and the Hamburg friendly was arranged as Trautmann’s last act as general manager of the club. Happy to remove if deemed irrelevant.Wna247 (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

– The word “Wembley” is linked to the 1923 stadium can write the word old before it if required'' Wna247 (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a quick run through, I'm aware that I may have missed a lot so let's consider this (and above) a first pass. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:01, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Cheers, gone through the bulk of this now. There is still some odd things to do from this last list, such as go through everything so far checking season or campaign is in the piped links. I have added a message to your talk page to clarify a few things. As its quite a big list I may have missed one or two things. If I have missed anything blatantly obvious just give us a nudge. Wna247 (talk) 14:46, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
EDIT - Added some discussion points to the above comments. Happy for these to be discussed and can alter the wording or remove the statement, as requiredWna247 (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'll continue to grind through the next part of it, and hopefully we'll start to develop a flavour for what should stay and what should go to the history article. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:26, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
2000–2010 to 2011–present[edit]

– Ref does mention – “The official line was that the contracts of Kilner and his assistant Des Bulpin were terminated "by mutual consent", though it emerged that he was fired as a result of Saturday's 4-0 home defeat by Millwall which left County bottom of the First Division, four points behind Walsall, whom they face at Edgeley Park tonight.” The 4-0 defeat was probably the last straw but again as mentioned a run of poor results were also a factor. Happy to discuss further.

– The Stockport specific season articles are from 1996–97, 1997–98, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2001–02, 2003–04, 2007–08, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2011–12, 2012–13 (the later ones are of a bit better quality that the older seasons. Not a lot of prose or references in these seasons – barring 2011–12 and 2012–13, but happy to link them if preferred.

– Operating costs I believe. There was a lot of staff at Stockport at the time and payers on High wages (relative to the division) Brian Kennedy put £4 million into Stockport but with several relegations and managers since 2003 and players on large long term contracts – the squad was pretty much ripped apart and build against each season so there wasn’t any stability. Stockport were also not receiving anything from the conference and banqueting facilities or food kiosks/bars on a match day – so there only money in was through ticket sales and possible cup runs.

– Had a bit of a re-word and took some things out of this and the point above , Happy to re-word further if necessary.

– Unsure what you mean by this note, can you please clarify for me?

– I have reworded this to not include this sentence but so people are aware. Stockport were in the relegation zone but Mathias didn’t set a points target and took things game by game to take the pressure off the players. Seemed to work due to upturn in results but it was probably too little too late.
Wna247 (talk) 14:10, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:44, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above comments have now all been amended and again I have left in line comments for things up for discussion or clarification. I have also changed the images on the article to free licensed ones (Barring the clubs logo as there is no free equivalent) Wna247 (talk) 14:10, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Non-league era[edit]

– The board at the time gave Evans the power to run the club while his bid was in progression as they were confident it would go through. Tony Evans was even highlighted as 'Stockport County Chairman' on TV at the first match of that season. At that point he hadn't took over and pulled his bid in November that year.

– Not understanding what you mean here could you please clarify

– Taken from the articles talk page. A version of this article was copy edited by Twofingered Typist, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on 12 May 2020.

There are a lot of basic issues here, not to mention the vast amount of prose which needs to be hived off into the History article. I'm okay with continuing this review but I think it really really needs to be punted back to a peer review and a copyeditor who is familiar with football club FAs. Take a look at Liverpool F.C. for example, the history section there is 1,650 words while the section in this article is 4,378. And I think you'd agree that Liverpool's history probably has more to discuss. So I would aim to get the section in this article down to 2,000 words maximum and preserve the rest in the history article. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:28, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Happy for you to carry on if you wish. Having seen all your notes I got the feeling myself that a lot of issues that should have been picked up at the peer review stage were not. I will action your notes on the article initially then look at cutting the history section down to around 2,000 words. Wna247 (talk) 11:14, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Cas Liber[edit]

Leaving this here as a placeholder. So things don't get too "busy", I'll wait till my two predecessors are satisfied - I trust both their judgements and it'll make my job simpler :) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:18, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note[edit]

This is looking more like a Peer Review than a FAC so I think best that further work take place elsewhere -- in consultation with the reviewers here if they're willing -- and then bring it back here for another go after a minimum of two weeks has passed. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:14, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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