As important as this ship is to the history of the United States Navy I feel it is time to bring the article up the scale past B-class. What if anything would prevent this article from the next step of Good Article? --Brad (talk) 04:37, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm under the influence of pain killers out the moment, but I can tell you that the information in the table in the specification section should be integrated into the uppermost ship table. I will take a closer look at the article when my thinking is not impaired. TomStar81 (Talk) 04:54, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Having allowed my pain killers to wear off I am now in extreme pain, and as it is difficult to type with my hand carved up I will outline the points that really need to be addressed:
  • Another paragraph is needed in the intro that deals with Constitution's current carreer as museum ship. Done
  • Eliminate the history header and instead focus on the remaining headers; since the whole article is history, there is no need to have the history header as the lead header. Done
  • More inline citations are needed throughout the article, in particular to adress the points on the milhist mos.
  • Information on the overhauls should be improved; notable with regard to equipment changes (like onloading new cannons or ammunition, spots where bad wood was replaced, what kind of modernizations the ship saw [if any], etc)
  • Eliminate the timeline section (in a sense the whole article is a timeline, so we don;t need to recap it there) Done
  • Merge the urban legend part into the pop culture part, either as a new paragraph or as a subsection of the pop culture section. Done
  • Break out the books from the reference section. At this point, that section is prabably large enough to exist on its own. Done
  • Check the external links and make sure they are all relevant; if they have little to do with ship, then remove them.

 Done -->Always need to watch.

• • See if you can find some more pictures of constitution in her hay day. Admittedly this one's gonna be hard, and I doubt you will come up with anything, but we do occasionally seem images over at FPC that date back to the 1800s, so it can't hurt to look.

--> Found Image:Chase of the Constitution, July 1812.jpg and placed in 1812 section. Finding others of quality will be difficult.

• Like I said, thats for starters, and I will update this when I can type again with both hands and without painkillers. TomStar81 (Talk) 10:53, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! It's enough for me to do in the meantime. --Brad (talk) 04:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Glad to hear that. Now for round two :)
  • Per MoS guidelines check all dates to ensure that they use a consistant format, either day/month/year or month/day/year.
  • Make sure that when you refer to constitution you stick with an all "she/her" format or an all "it" format, do not alternate between the two.
  • Coordinate your efforts to improve this page with MBK004's improvements to the original six page. One of the things I discovered during the FAR(C) for USS Wisconsin (BB-64) is that people will be more likely to support a ship article if detailed information common to the class is presented on the class page. In this manner you can make a case for this article being an extension of the greater whole. If it worked for me, i am sure it will work for you.
  • Do we have an article for Edmund Hartt's shipyard? It would be nice to have one if one isn't here already.

--> I have found nothing online for Harrt and very little for George Claghorn.

• • See if you can find any statistics for much stronger the disgnal cross braces made the frigate.
  • Link to the marine units that served aboard constitution, if you can; this may help you find additional source for the article.
  • See if any ships were assigned to operate with or under consitution during her early carreer. It would be interesting to know if she sailed as part of a battle group or if she sailed independently. If she sailed as part of a group see if you can find out which vessel served as the flagship. I wouldn't be suprised to learn constitution served as a flagship in her day; I bet she would have been a damn good flagship too :)
  • Wikilink the first instance of ranks. Positions like captain and commodore warrent articles here; and it will help enlighten the readers.
  • What are the effective range(s) of the guns mounted aboard constitution, and what kind of ammunition do they use?
  • In the war of 1812, how did the people find out about constitution's victories? It may be worth noting the methode in the article.
  • In the war of 1812, where were the blockades that prevented constitution from sailing?
  • What exactly did they find in the 1830 examination that made constitution unfit for service? I'm guessing rotten or damaged wood due to war service, but you can tighten that up if you get a chance.
  • Where exactly was constitution during the civil war? I assume in boston, but it couldn;t hurt to find out for sure.
  • Any idea what she moved to the paris expo in 1877?
  • there is very little on constitution between 1897 and 1925, see if you can expand that. I don't think you will find anything important, but it would be best to check anyway just to be through.
  • Her 1930 tour mentions visits to 90 port cities; perhaps you could list the ones she started and ended at for the Atlantic, Gulf, and Pacific legs of the trip. Done
  • The 1954 act of congress placing constitution in permanent commission prabably has a name, see if you can find it.
  • Link to sea chest, it may be an interesting read for those unfamilar with the term.

--> There is no article on WP to describe "Sea Chest" though it does appear in word searches. Also appears @ List_of_naval_terms#S but description doesn't fit what HM received.

• • See if you can find the vessel that towed constitution out to sea in 1997, if it was a navy ship then I would give better than even odds that we have its artcle here.

I'm fairly certain the 1997 tow was a commercial tug, I'll have to look at my pictures. However for the 1931 big tour tow:

USS Grebe (AM-43), worked it into article. Looking for PD photo of the two together. --J Clear (talk) 21:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)  Done[reply]

USS Sumner (AGS-5) seems to have taken a leg on the way back, too, probably worth omitting. --J Clear (talk) 21:48, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• • link to "ship of state" Done
  • If at all possible, try to remove the links in the see also section by incorporating that information into the article body. Done
  • Check to see if our articles on events like the Quasi-war and the war of 1812 have any inline citations or external links, you may be able to find innformation on constitution from those sources and links. In a best case senario you'll find a gold mine, in a worse case nothing at all, either way, in may help to fill in blank spots.
• If I happen to think of anything else I will add it here for you. TomStar81 (Talk) 08:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have article feedback later, but for now, just wanted to note that I'm doing rather extensive research for Constitution images and will present a list of image options soonish. Maralia (talk) 16:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A quick note in response to Tom's question about where she was during the Civil War: She was a training ship for the United States Naval Academy, first in Annapolis, and from May 1861–summer 1865 at Fort Adams in Newport, Rhode Island when the Academy was temporarily moved there. [1] Maralia (talk) 17:44, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have more for you later.

• Every item in the popular culture section needs to be cited, and follow the guidelines of the disclaimer I have just added to the section [2]. -MBK₀₀₄ 19:28, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• The Ship of state article linked at the request of Tom above does not mention military vessels, just ocean liners with regards to the maritime part of the metaphor. I don't quite know how such an expansion of that article to include mention of the Constitution's status as a "ship of state" would be undertaken. Especially since I have an extremely limited grasp of philosophical topics. -MBK₀₀₄ 05:12, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• DANFS: No ((DANFS)) citation. We should check DANFS to see if either there is text and we need the citation or if DANFS has anything interesting we could incorportate (and then add the citation). --J Clear (talk) 19:24, 2 February 2008 (UTC) Never mind, I'm blind. --J Clear (talk) 21:06, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• If the article grows too much, I suggest we create USS Constitution service history or some such, and put a lot of details there.
• Also may want to separate her "offical navy history" with her "legend" and current role as a symbol/museum. I tried to do that with Valley Forge and Valley Forge National Park, and it seems to work. --J Clear (talk) 21:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Need to work the two reasons for the "turnaround" cruise into the Present day section: weathering, parade.

• The 3 introductory paragraphs should be rewritten for better flow. I plucked the third directly from the 'Present Day' section just to outline what should be up there. The oldest commissioned ship afloat in the world should be in the third paragraph, imo.
• I plan on expanding the information a bit about George Claghorn as Naval Constructor but there is very little to be found; not enough even for an article on him. There is one reference available as to why Constitution had several aborted launch attempts that I will add.
• J Clear: Nice hits with the 1930's tour; Thank you!

Infobox:

• In the interest of not making the infobox 5 miles long, I'm not going to list every commissioned and decommissioned date found. Someone had started to list those dates but I plan on removing them.
• The only thing preventing me from removing the section with specifications is the issue of putting the anchors into the infobox but there is no |Ships anchors= line that will work within the box. I've left messages at the infobox page and with TomtheHand but no answer has been given as yet.
• Flag.. If she is a currently commissioned ship then Don't Tread On Me should figure into the box here. Why the 1812 flag is there seems sort of confusing. Constitution may fall under the DTOM flag in two ways.. Oldest ship in the fleet and as all USN ships are currently flying same.

--Brad (talk) 16:25, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]