The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was don't move. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 06:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Votes only please !

• Oppose - I do not want to see Argyll become a redirect page to Argyllshire at this time as I do not have the time to write an Argyll page. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:21, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - Is this suggestion a joke or something? - Calgacus (talk 21:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - This is a simply not how we refer to things. These are not English shires, they are historic Scottish counties. This is akin to renaming Ulster Ulstershire,simply because Ulster's currently in the U.K. Canaen 23:54, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per Calgacus. The proposal is too ridiculous for words. --Mais oui! 00:36, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose How often do you need to be told ? This is a silly proposal. -- Derek Ross | Talk 03:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - An Siarach
• Oppose - Laurel Bush 11:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC).[reply]
• Oppose - Fraslet 18:14, 3 April 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Request move: discussion[edit]

I actually did some research (User:Mais oui! made me do it, blame him) and the "correct" usage is likely "the county of X", where X is either Fife, Cromarty, Argyll, Ross, Sutherland, Caithness, Bute, &c, or the the county town(s). That's what is used in Hansard as of 1830-1832.

"Ilminster, in the County of Somerset"
"the Town and Parish of Sheffield, in the County of York"
"the Town of Linlithgow, in the County of Linlithgow"
"the Parish of Fintray, County of Aberdeen"
"the Burgh of Rothesay, in the County of Bute"
"Gordonstown, and others, in the County of Elgin and Forres"
"Dingwall be declared a Part of the County of Ross"
"the Presbytery of Lorn, in the County of Argyll"

Beats Google hits. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:31, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• So are you suggesting that we rename Yorkshire as The County of York? Does it occur to you that, whilst such technically pedantic names can easily be mentioned in articles, people do to, as a general rule, use them commonly, and a fundamental tenet of wikipedia's naming policy is concerned with putting the main article in the namespace reader are most likely to be able to find? Stringops 01:52, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • So are you suggesting that we rename Argyll as Argyllshire? Does it occur to you that, whilst such odd names can easily be mentioned in articles, people do not, as a general rule, use them commonly, and a fundamental tenet of Wikipedia's naming policy is concerned with putting the main article in the namespace readers are most likely to be able to find ? -- Derek Ross | Talk 03:14, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Most references to 'Argyll' are not references to the county, but to the general area. Whether people more often talk of the general area than specifically of the county is neither here nor there - the point is that this article is about the county, not the general area, and it should use the commonest, less-ambiguous term as its title. That term is Argyllshire. Stringops 17:18, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• I am not seeing any explicit, clear reason for the proposal. And I dont know why the name of the constituency - as distinct from the county - seems to have been changed, from Argyllshire to Argyll, in 1950. Presumably to reflect common usage of that time, influenced perhaps by terms of reference under 1898 local government legislation. Laurel Bush 11:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC).[reply]
  • The reason for this proposal is that Argyllshire was unilaterally moved to Argyll in the first place. Given that the local papers of the area are called the Argyllshire Advertiser and the Argyllshire Standard I have yet to see any evidence that Argyll is used specifically to refer to the area covered by the county. Argyll is used, most often, as a general term refering to a vague area, not a specific term refering to a specific set of boundaries that were used administratively until 1975. As this article is about those boundaries, I fail to see why both common usage and precision should be overturned in order to keep it here. Stringops 17:18, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• The Royal Mail have to take some of the blame for this confusion with their postal counties. The former postal county of Oban, for example is "Argyll", but thankfully the Royal Mail now have traditional counties on file. Try entering "PA34 4AA" into http://www.capscan.co.uk/mcd5demo.htm and you will clearly see that the traditional county is "Argyllshire". Owain (talk) 17:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just because the Royal Mail can be duped by County Watch (see Association_of_British_Counties#Successes) does not mean that Wikipedia can. --Mais oui! 18:09, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was referred to here by a post on WP:AN. Looking at the clear opposition to this move, and the lack of a clear statement of why it should be moved, or clear examples of other editors supporting such a move, I'm rm'ing the ((move)) tag, and leaving this page where it is. JesseW, the juggling janitor 02:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.